Does anyone have Lightning cold weather preconditioning detail information?

[p52Ranch]

Does anyone have the specific details on battery temperatures maintained when pre-conditioning during cold weather?

Maybe I'm way overthinking this but It would seem that having a matrix of outside air temperature, car parking temperature (garage is warmer than OAT) and expected trip distance to determine when pre-conditioning is useful and when it is unnecessary.

Examples,
1. I need to feed the steers twice a day and usually take the Lightning, It is only a 2.5 mile round trip and takes 10 minutes. I start from the garage which is about 50F this time of year. I usually keep the HVAC off. I don't precondition as this would seem to be a waste of energy. HVAC off seems to yield about 2.8 miles per KwH. HVAC on seems to yield about half that when the OAT is 25F.

2. I drive to the feed store (25 miles away)or to Tulsa (40 miles away). The same garage starting conditions of 50F. HVAC will be used. Does the battery get warmed up sufficiently above 50F in the garage during pre-conditioning to improve the miles/KwH?

Is there a minimum travel distance to justify preconditioning?
Will a pre-conditioned battery maintain a higher internal temperature for the duration of a longer trip? E.G. if pre-conditioning were to raise the battery temperature to 70F will the truck attempt to maintain that same temperature? If you start with a cold battery will the truck attempt to raise the battery temperature to the same temperature as pre-conditioning?
What differences could be expected for the SR vs. ER pre-conditioning?

There is probably a curve/matrix between car parking temperature, OAT, travel distance. There is also probably temperature loss curve for a pre-conditioned battery when parked vs. OAT.

Inquiring minds want to know.

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[Halbach]

I would also love to know all of this... since you have your lightning it sounds like the perfect job for you to get started on!

 

[p52Ranch]

I would also love to know all of this... since you have your lightning it sounds like the perfect job for you to get started on!

I haven't seen any details like I'm looking for in any of the forum discussions, nor is there any information like this in the owners manual. Owners manual has very generic instructions like plug in and set a departure time to precondition the battery and cabin.

I was hoping someone may already have some of this info.

It would also be nice if there was a "I'm leaving in 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes" quick set option on the Ford pass app so you didn't have to select a date and time for preconditioning.

@OutofSpecKyle was using a Car Scanner App that wirelessly connected to the OBD2 port during his full to empty Lightning test. This was in July when he was testing so the battery pack was being cooled during charging. There were a couple of temperature readings on his phone from the app. So the info looks to be available.

 

[Halbach]

I haven't seen any details like I'm looking for in any of the forum discussions, nor is there any information like this in the owners manual. Owners manual has very generic instructions like plug in and set a departure time to precondition the battery and cabin.

I was hoping someone may already have some of this info.

It would also be nice if there was a "I'm leaving in 15, 30, 45 or 60 minutes" quick set option on the Ford pass app so you didn't have to select a date and time for preconditioning.

@OutofSpecKyle was using a Car Scanner App that wirelessly connected to the OBD2 port during his full to empty Lightning test. This was in July when he was testing so the battery pack was being cooled during charging. There were a couple of temperature readings on his phone from the app. So the info looks to be available.

When my truck comes in I'll see if my scanner can read that info, it's pretty old but I like fiddling around. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Firestop]

I’ve been thinking along these same lines. I’m trying to gather data on the HVB heater PW draw (I recen’t ly found a PID for HVB coolant heater kW) and what are the target HVB temps.

Anecdotally, I have observed ~8kW Power draws when starting my truck cold (OT: ~40 degF, Cabin Heat: Auto #1 @ 68 degF, Seat Heat: High, Steering Wheel Hean: ON) that lasts ~90 sec, drops to ~4 kW for ~1 min, then settles to about 1.5-2 kW until I leave.

More opportunities for a retiree to do more tests in between other projects and curiosities

 

[RickLightning]

Does anyone have the specific details on battery temperatures maintained when pre-conditioning during cold weather?

Maybe I'm way overthinking this but It would seem that having a matrix of outside air temperature, car parking temperature (garage is warmer than OAT) and expected trip distance to determine when pre-conditioning is useful and when it is unnecessary.

Wow. Yes, you are seriously overthinking this.

Examples,
1. I need to feed the steers twice a day and usually take the Lightning, It is only a 2.5 mile round trip and takes 10 minutes. I start from the garage which is about 50F this time of year. I usually keep the HVAC off. I don't precondition as this would seem to be a waste of energy. HVAC off seems to yield about 2.8 miles per KwH. HVAC on seems to yield about half that when the OAT is 25F.

Remote start 3 minutes (try) to warm the cabin.

2. I drive to the feed store (25 miles away)or to Tulsa (40 miles away). The same garage starting conditions of 50F. HVAC will be used. Does the battery get warmed up sufficiently above 50F in the garage during pre-conditioning to improve the miles/KwH?

Don't believe so.

Is there a minimum travel distance to justify preconditioning?
Will a pre-conditioned battery maintain a higher internal temperature for the duration of a longer trip? E.G. if pre-conditioning were to raise the battery temperature to 70F will the truck attempt to maintain that same temperature? If you start with a cold battery will the truck attempt to raise the battery temperature to the same temperature as pre-conditioning?
What differences could be expected for the SR vs. ER pre-conditioning?

From the minute you pull out, the battery temp will start to drop. I found 40 - 45 degrees in 20 degree weather. DC fast charge, battery went to 95 degrees, dropped to 40 again by next stop.

You are way, way overthinking this, but knock yourself out.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[p52Ranch]

From the minute you pull out, the battery temp will start to drop. I found 40 - 45 degrees in 20 degree weather. DC fast charge, battery went to 95 degrees, dropped to 40 again by next stop.

Based on your response, the battery is only being maintained in the 40 degree range during cold weather?

If this is correct then other than warming the cabin, pre-conditioning in the garage would seem to be unnecessary. Especially if the battery does not hold accumulated heat during 2 hours of driving.

That would make my matrix much simpler. E.G. only pre-condition when it's under 40 degrees.

 

[RickLightning]

Based on your response, the battery is only being maintained in the 40 degree range during cold weather?

If this is correct then other than warming the cabin, pre-conditioning in the garage would seem to be unnecessary. Especially if the battery does not hold accumulated heat during 2 hours of driving.

That would make my matrix much simpler. E.G. only pre-condition when it's under 40 degrees.

That is my recollection from last winter, yes. My garage rarely approaches 32. I have not monitored the entire departure cycle to get readings, I have better things to do then spend my money on electricity to learn for no other reason... If your garage is 30 degrees when it is 15 out, then you'd want to set a departure time.

I'd have to send my data from CarScanner to bring it up, and no time to do that right now.

 

[Blainestang]

Based on your response, the battery is only being maintained in the 40 degree range during cold weather?

If this is correct then other than warming the cabin, pre-conditioning in the garage would seem to be unnecessary. Especially if the battery does not hold accumulated heat during 2 hours of driving.

That would make my matrix much simpler. E.G. only pre-condition when it's under 40 degrees.

Or is the truck just realizing that it's not worth it to expend the energy to keep it above 40F once you're moving... because the benefit would be less than just using that same energy to power the motor?

It could still be true (and likely) that maximum range would be seen with the battery at higher temps, and therefore pre-conditioning the battery before leaving on a *long* drive may be beneficial from a total range perspective, but maybe not a total efficiency perspective.

But, unless efficiency is so negatively affected by being under 40F that the heating energy "unlocks" more energy than the heat costs, it doesn't make sense to do it from an efficiency standpoint. Or maybe it's a long-term battery health thing to keep it at 40F+.

It's an interesting topic, for sure.

 

[Lightning Rod]

I will have my 23 Lariat ER soon and I too am curious about pre conditioning the battery in cold weather. When I'm at home and plugged in, I will set the charger to pre condition before work, but while at work, it will be in a parking lot in 20 degree Fahrenheit for 10 hours without being plugged in. Should I just hit remote start 10 minutes prior to leaving the job? My job is a 10 minute drive throughthe city. I'm not quite sure how this works.

Thanks for any replies.

 

[Firestop]

This forum has been a great place to learn about Winter weather impacts on range (There seem to be new subthreads every day), and has driven the overly analytical side of me to search for data, and understand more.

I downloaded some data into Excel from GeoTab that was used to publish their Temperature/Range Impact Curve (screenshot attached). They state this graph is the impact on rated EV range, not battery performance.

https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-range/

To that end, here is an additional reference from them, from a Fleet perspective, on the overall topic that might fill or reinforce some of the information gaps:

https://www.geotab.com/blog/8-tips-for-driving-electric-vehicles-in-cold-climates/

They note their data shows preconditioning can add 10-15% to an EV’s winter range (albeit, only for the trip leg immediately following preconditioning) and provide the following reference:

https://chargedevs.com/features/fleetcarma-digs-deep-into-cold-weather-ev-data/

Data collection and its subsequent analysis will answer most questions and speculation, and I look forward to the day data from our new trucks is added to the current EV data pool. Until then, what has been collected/analyzed from those EVs that proceeded the Lighting, and the experiences of previous owners, should provide us reasonable expections

 

[RickLightning]

I will have my 23 Lariat ER soon and I too am curious about pre conditioning the battery in cold weather. When I'm at home and plugged in, I will set the charger to pre condition before work, but while at work, it will be in a parking lot in 20 degree Fahrenheit for 10 hours without being plugged in. Should I just hit remote start 10 minutes prior to leaving the job? My job is a 10 minute drive throughthe city. I'm not quite sure how this works.

Thanks for any replies.

The only reason to hit remote start is for you to get the cabin, seats, and/or steering wheel warm. So yes, I would.

 

[Lightning Rod]

The only reason to hit remote start is for you to get the cabin, seats, and/or steering wheel warm. So yes, I would.

Please excuse my dumb questions as I am new to this EV stuff.

Pre conditioning the battery in very cold weather is for helping range but more importantly, it's to help protect the battery's health and longevity, correct?

One more stupid question... when plugged in, the batteries can be pre conditioned in cold weather, but when not plugged in, can it not use some of its own power to "pre condition" the batteries with remote starting it?

Again, please forgive my newb questions.

 

[RickLightning]

Please excuse my dumb questions as I am new to this EV stuff.

Pre conditioning the battery in very cold weather is for helping range but more importantly, it's to help protect the battery's health and longevity, correct?

One more stupid question... when plugged in, the batteries can be pre conditioned in cold weather, but when not plugged in, can it not use some of its own power to "pre condition" the batteries with remote starting it?

Again, please forgive my newb questions.

You're not going to impact battery health by not preconditioning. The vehicle will pull power when the batteries get too cold to keep them healthy.

No, if it's not plugged in, it won't precondition. However, it does use it's own power to ensure that the batteries don't get too cold.

 

[Lightning Rod]

You're not going to impact battery health by not preconditioning. The vehicle will pull power when the batteries get too cold to keep them healthy.

No, if it's not plugged in, it won't precondition. However, it does use it's own power to ensure that the batteries don't get too cold.

So you're saying that not pre conditioning the battery in freezing weather before driving off will not hurt the battery's health?

This is good to know. Thank you.

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