The Ford Home Integration System is a complete joke, and borderline criminal

[pc500]

Why are wireless communications of any kind required here? That's insane; every device involved is wired together.

Truck has to talk to inverter. There is no wires together outside of the physical ccs/j1772 connector. They could have put another pin though or seen id they could have send communications over the electrical wires.

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[tls]

Truck has to talk to inverter. There is no wires together outside of the physical ccs/j1772 connector. They could have put another pin though or seen id they could have send communications over the electrical wires.

If there was a desire to avoid running additional communication wires - note that communications cable with high voltage insulation (1000V) is available and used for this purpose in many industrial applications, as well as the Gen2 Tesla HPWC, so this would *not* require a second conduit run - they could have plunked down about $20 and used power line Ethernet.

 

[Stonelew]

If there was a desire to avoid running additional communication wires - note that communications cable with high voltage insulation (1000V) is available and used for this purpose in many industrial applications, as well as the Gen2 Tesla HPWC, so this would *not* require a second conduit run - they could have plunked down about $20 and used power line Ethernet.
We got the HIS installed two weeks ago and paired the truck and inverter. After about 20 attempts at simulating grid loss, we put the truck in sleep mode and we got the bi-directional to power the house. Then we got it to work 3 more times. The next day we could not get it to work, so we tried again and got it to work. The next day we tried and it did not work and it did not work after repated tries. So today we tried and at first it did not work but I unplugged the charger and put it back in and it worked. So it is glitchy and I think a comunication issue with the inverter. Gonna keep trying till I get it to work first time four days in a row.

 

[pc500]

If there was a desire to avoid running additional communication wires - note that communications cable with high voltage insulation (1000V) is available and used for this purpose in many industrial applications, as well as the Gen2 Tesla HPWC, so this would *not* require a second conduit run - they could have plunked down about $20 and used power line Ethernet.

I say in theory this is correct too. Now, they'd have to put electronic bits to pass that thru all the way upstream, but certainly it could be done. The only doc I don't have in front of me is the SAE spec for the CCS connector. We would just have to ensure it doesn't violate anything (there is other existing data over electrical connections it uses for plug n charge, current negotiation, etc). In theory you could find a signalling means that is open.

Although, they could have used CCS ethernet too.

 

[tls]

I say in theory this is correct too. Now, they'd have to put electronic bits to pass that thru all the way upstream, but certainly it could be done. The only doc I don't have in front of me is the SAE spec for the CCS connector. We would just have to ensure it doesn't violate anything (there is other existing data over electrical connections it uses for plug n charge, current negotiation, etc). In theory you could find a signalling means that is open.

Although, they could have used CCS ethernet too.

V2H/V2G are supposedly CCS standards and use the already defined CCS signaling. Any custom signaling required ought to be only between the FCSP and the HIS. I cannot see why the truck should ever need to talk directly to the inverter, or talk a nonstandard protocol to the FCSP; but even if it *does* need to speak a nonstandard protocol to the FCSP, the existing CCS signaling mechanism is certainly general enough for that purpose. And the FCSP could clearly proxy any communications to the HIS inverter.

That wireless is used at all in this application seems like a colossal design botch.

 

[Bhot]

Correct, battery size and space issues, plus I need a truck to tow stuff (boat, jet skis, utility trailer) from time to time, and two long tows when switching homes twice per year. I also have limited wall space in the garage, although in hindsight did not realize the HIS has five boxes and takes up about as much space as 20 kwh of Powerwall. That's definitely a better solution understanding what I do now.

I can't use one of our Virginia farm's superduties in Florida, as our HOA disallows any truck over 1/2 ton. The '21 F-150 PowerBoost did the trick with our 9,100-pound boat/trailer, albeit much less efficiently than a proper diesel rig. The Lightning tows the boat well, albeit with 120 mile range, fine around here for maintenance and launching, etc., more of a challenge for the 1,000+mile spring and fall runs between Virginia and Florida, but doable given I-95's frequent charging spacing, and we can run slow, divert to Rt 1, Rt 17 or even A1a if needed. Unhooking the trailer is required some places, so a 14-hour trip becomes two days. But only two times per year. Going back to the PowerBoost will be a step back in some ways, and range is only 150 miles at 4.9 mpg towing, but it's much quicker to refuel and involves no unhitching.

I have had a similar experience in Georgia.
What is worse is that 4 weeks ago the power converter went out in the truck. And I have no ETA on a replacement part because there are so few parts and that many more trucks in front of me. The media needs to know how awful everything is going…

 

[James1]

Plus it adds the capability to integrate solar panels with no additional equipment except the panels.

What is the kilowatt capacity of the inverter in the HIS sold by Ford and installed by SunRun? That is, how much solar energy will the Ford inverter support? Thanks,

 

[neririn]

there are several models. I think the smallest is 5kw and I have the 10kw.

 

[Jim Lewis]

there are several models.

The solar inverters are available in 4, 6, 8, or 10 kW sizes, all for the same price: Product: Sunrun Home Integration System (required to enable Ford Intelligent Backup Power) (aeesolar.com)

Apparently, they all contain a 10 kW-capable solar inverter. The difference in output is software/firmware driven, according to a "hearsay" exchange I had with a Sunrun EV Ops rep. Instead of going for a 4 kW unit, I thought I'd opt for a 6 kW solar inverter just in case I ever decide to go solar, too. The rep told me that going for a 6 kW unit might cause a delay in procuring that particular model and claimed the size of solar inverter output would be "software" upgradeable in the future. Quote from a Sunrun e-mail reply to my query on 3/30/23:

Can a future homeowner easily upgrade the Delta inverter to support a larger PV inverter function, i.e., replace the 4 kW inverter in the default install, with a larger PV inverter?
Yes, a customer can hypothetically get a new Inverter at a larger size. The customer would have to pay for the equipment as well as hire a licensed electrician to install it.
Correction on this! It will not cost to increase the inverter in the future, as it is essentially just the software we would be updating.

I am still awaiting the HIS install, which is fine with me since I won't get my truck until the 5/2 to 5/8 time range, and an install after the truck is delivered will work better to see if the dang thing actually works for me. I'll be doing manual switchovers as I got Sunrun to agree to wiring my entire existing subpanel (no separate critical loads panel) and letting me decide what breakers to power on and what to leave off during an outage.

 

[LightningCanuckNB]

I am still awaiting the HIS install, which is fine with me since I won't get my truck until the 5/2 to 5/8 time range, and an install after the truck is delivered will work better to see if the dang thing actually works for me. I'll be doing manual switchovers as I got Sunrun to agree to wiring my entire existing subpanel (no separate critical loads panel) and letting me decide what breakers to power on and what to leave off during an outage.

If you already have a subpanel and don't have solar... why don't you just save the $5000+ and get a manual transfer switch ($100 or less) and plug it into the 7.2 KW inverter in the truck?

 

[Zprime29]

Can't use solar if you just plug into pro power.

I'm also in the boat of wanting to use my solar if/when the power goes out and watching development closely on 3rd party bidirectional chargers as an alternative. Would be nice to have something that isn't tied to Ford/Lightning specific.

 

[EdRudy]

I'm glad I bought an extension cord and skipped the HIS installation.

 

[djwildstar]

Truck has to talk to inverter. There is no wires together outside of the physical ccs/j1772 connector. They could have put another pin though or seen id they could have send communications over the electrical wires.

I'm waiting for a non-SunRun Charge Station Pro + Home Integration System install (also in Georgia). Thanks to folks on this forum, I managed to get my hands on the install documents for all of the pieces, and this is my understanding:

1) For purposes of initiating and controlling backup power, the truck needs to talk go the Home Integration System via the Charge Station Pro. According to SunRun's "Troubleshooting Issues Performing a Backup Power Transfer" document, the truck talks to the CSP via Bluetooth. This document recommends positioning the truck to avoid having walls, trees, and electronics in the line of sight between the Bluetooth module and the CSP, ideally positioned so that the rear passenger-side door is as close as possible to the CSP. Also, the same document recommends a minimum of 5 minutes between backup power transfer tests.

As an aside, the SAE J1772 standard references IEEE P1901 power-line communications for communications via the vehicle, charging station, and smart grid -- but portions of the relevant standards were still in draft form when the current CSP and HIS were being designed. I suspect that the use of Bluetooth was an attempt at an end-run the portions of the standard that aren't yet nailed down (does P1901 run over the high-current AC lines, or over the pilot lines?).

2) Per the CSP Installation Guide, the Charge Station Pro talks to the Home Integration System via an RS-485 link that is routed through the same conduit as the high-voltage DC circuit to the inverter. The inverter also uses RS-485 to talk to the whole-home backup / microgrid interconnection device. This should provide reliable communications between the CSP and the HIS.

I'll keep folks updated on my progress -- I've got the HIS delivered and my truck is being built now, so we're still a bit away from having the CSP arrive. The electrician will probably try to do everything in one go, so the install may wind up waiting for the CSP.

 

[Pitbull2o08]

I'm waiting for a non-SunRun Charge Station Pro + Home Integration System install (also in Georgia). Thanks to folks on this forum, I managed to get my hands on the install documents for all of the pieces, and this is my understanding:

1) For purposes of initiating and controlling backup power, the truck needs to talk go the Home Integration System via the Charge Station Pro. According to SunRun's "Troubleshooting Issues Performing a Backup Power Transfer" document, the truck talks to the CSP via Bluetooth. This document recommends positioning the truck to avoid having walls, trees, and electronics in the line of sight between the Bluetooth module and the CSP, ideally positioned so that the rear passenger-side door is as close as possible to the CSP. Also, the same document recommends a minimum of 5 minutes between backup power transfer tests.

As an aside, the SAE J1772 standard references IEEE P1901 power-line communications for communications via the vehicle, charging station, and smart grid -- but portions of the relevant standards were still in draft form when the current CSP and HIS were being designed. I suspect that the use of Bluetooth was an attempt at an end-run the portions of the standard that aren't yet nailed down (does P1901 run over the high-current AC lines, or over the pilot lines?).

2) Per the CSP Installation Guide, the Charge Station Pro talks to the Home Integration System via an RS-485 link that is routed through the same conduit as the high-voltage DC circuit to the inverter. The inverter also uses RS-485 to talk to the whole-home backup / microgrid interconnection device. This should provide reliable communications between the CSP and the HIS.

I'll keep folks updated on my progress -- I've got the HIS delivered and my truck is being built now, so we're still a bit away from having the CSP arrive. The electrician will probably try to do everything in one go, so the install may wind up waiting for the CSP.

Yeah I just did this install. Alot of wired comms between the two.

Problem I'm having is my inverter is broke. Delta needs to RMA it for a new one, they will not RMA it without a case number from sunrun/AEEsolar (they're the same company). So you have all these entities not talking, and me as the consumer is losing money on lost solar production each day it doesn't work. @Ford Motor Company Choose the company you keep wisely...

 

[Zprime29]

ideally positioned so that the rear passenger-side door is as close as possible to the CSP

Hold the phone...they put the charge port and the communication module on complete opposite corners of the truck? Who's the nincompoop that approved that?

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