Utah to require GPS tracking for EVs...

[ctuan13]

Regardless of your stance on taxes and their excessive nature, it is fair to expect EV drivers to pay their share for road use. However from a privacy/civil liberties perspective this is not It. This violates the Fourth and Fourteenth amendments. There could be yearly inspections where the mileage is recorded, which is already done in states with safety inspections. For those that wish to volunteer to join such a program, sure, but this should in no way ever be mandatory.

https://www.msn.com/en-US/news/scie...es-to-tax-drivers-per-mile-driven/ar-AA1fsvR8

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[Pioneer74]

It will get shot down in the courts. No way that is constitutional.

I'll gladly pay my fair share. But you can't force me to be tracked, violating my privacy. And if anybody thinks this won't be used for other purposes, I wish I lived in your fantasy world.

I already pay an EV fee on my registration You want to look at my odometer, fine. Mandate a yearly inspection for every vehicle and start fining the drivers with illegal window tint and LED bulbs in halogen projectors. That should fill the coffers up.

 

[rdr854]

The fuel economy fee and EV fee in Virginia are designed to help the state recoup fuel taxes that are not paid at the pump. These fees are collected at the time of initial registration and subsequent renewals. This eliminates the need for GPS tracking.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I've developed the idea of how to answer this concern for the states - it all should be tied to charging, just like current taxes are tied to fueling.

it's easy to assume that DC Fast Charging and other 'commercial' chargers can easily be assessed a fuel tax for every kwh they provide... the software is already calculating kwh of usage at most every DC Fast Charger, and others can be easily retrofit with the software or hardware to make this happen.

one major problem, though, is HOME charging, although there is already a device/product on the market/coming soon/developed that can remedy that, as well.
Home charging is tied to your J1772, normally, and therefore a simple adapter device that sits between it and your charge port inlet is the key.
The adapter is simply 'reading' the amount of kwh of power supplied to your vehicle, and sends that information back to your utility, just like your current 'automatic sensor' Meters do now, which is then assessed the appropriate 'per kwh' road tax, such as 1cent p/kwh, etc.
There is good rationale for using an adapter between the J1772 and the Vehicle's Charge Port: this means that the electrical power passing thru is the only power that is charged the fuel tax.



currently, many states are passing along an 'EV Road Tax' fee when you register the vehicle every year - Georgia is $218 or so, Alabama is $300 or so, etc. They are 'guessing' that this rate will provide a similar amount as most other gas and diesel vehicles current pay - I'll bet they haven't looked at MY odometer lately, though. One other drawback to this type of 'fee' is that it is assessed and charged and must be paid IN FULL at the time of registration - there is no 'pay as go' such as we currently have for gas and diesel vehicles.

 

[Maxx]

I wish I lived in your fantasy world.

It is called Europe. The more protection they give to their citizens, the more we take away from ours. This is getting ridiculous.

Ford knows what songs people play in their cars. Tesla probably knows how many kids you will have and which one would be a good piano player 20 years down the road. They definitely know the mileage on your car. State can get it from them and tax us without tracking us.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one company that is in good position to sell these GPS devices cornered the biggest idiot law maker in Utah and said this is how you can get MO Money.

 

[RickLightning]

Michigan governor has put a $5 million line item in 2023-2024 budget to survey attitudes towards doing this. Remember the following:

-Apple and/or Google know exactly where you've been.
-Comcast knows where you've been if you're a customer and use their public WiFi.
-Ford knows where you have been.

So, if the states setup secure systems to delete data after assessing fee, what's the big deal? We would save money based on our driving. I owe $140 x 2 vehicles later this fall.

 

[Maxx]

Doesn’t state make money off of Electricity sales through taxes and fees? i am using electricity that I didn’t use before (when I was driving ICE). Isn’t this double dipping?

 

[FastMover]

Doesn’t state make money off of Electricity sales through taxes and fees? i am using electricity that didn’t use before when I was driving ICE. Isn’t this double dipping?

Saved me from typing the same thing.

 

[Pioneer74]

Doesn’t state make money off of Electricity sales through taxes and fees? i am using electricity that didn’t use before when I was driving ICE. Isn’t this double dipping?

When has business or government been concerned with double dipping?

 

[ivan256]

Michigan governor has put a $5 million line item in 2023-2024 budget to survey attitudes towards doing this. Remember the following:

-Apple and/or Google know exactly where you've been.
-Comcast knows where you've been if you're a customer and use their public WiFi.
-Ford knows where you have been.

So, if this states setup secure systems to delete data after assessing fee, what's the big deal? We would save money based on our driving. I owe $140 x 2 vehicles later this fall.

In kindergarten we learn that two wrongs don’t make a right.

For the rest of our lives afterwards people try to convince us kindergarten teachers are liars.

Your location data should be worth more than $280 per year to you. It’s certainly worth more than that to google. And the money comes out of your wallet at the end of the day. Even if you don’t make the connection.

And if you really knew what unscrupulous governments are willing to do when this data isn’t well protected you’d be a bitter, cynical, paranoid person with no faith left in humanity.

 

[Pioneer74]

And if you really knew what unscrupulous governments are willing to do when this data isn’t well protected you’d be a bitter, cynical, paranoid person with no faith left in humanity.

I'm almost there.

 

[lightspeed]

I'm against taxes for EVs but if it gets through why can't they just get an odometer reading (you fill it in on the registration renewal form) every year and tax you by mileage? Why do they need moment to moment position tracking information?

It seems like our government officials watch sci-fi like Black Mirror and wonder about how they can make the dystopian sci-fi scenarios real.

 

[Amps]

The fuel economy fee and EV fee in Virginia are designed to help the state recoup fuel taxes that are not paid at the pump. These fees are collected at the time of initial registration and subsequent renewals. This eliminates the need for GPS tracking.

You can opt-in to fee-per-mile in Virginia. (Mileage Choice) It's a little over a penny a mile.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

 

[hturnerfamily]

I'm against taxes for EVs but if it gets through why can't they just get an odometer reading (you fill it in on the registration renewal form) every year and tax you by mileage? Why do they need moment to moment position tracking information?

It seems like our government officials watch sci-fi like Black Mirror and wonder about how they can make the dystopian sci-fi scenarios real.

A) the 'government' would not rely on YOU to report your own mileage... they are not that trusting.

B) registration is billed in advance, not at the 'point of payment', so mileage would have to be known BEFORE registration/renewal.

C) do you really want the 'government' to know how many miles you drive every year, and then, of course, they'll provide that to your insurer, and then, of course, you'll have a major increase in your insurance?? (I'm an insurance agent, I wouldn't want this, either!)

I don't disagree with the premise of a 'per mile' charge, but that's not how our current gas/diesel road tax works, either, so you'd be starting something 'new' , even though that's probably always been the way it 'should have been' ... they just didn't have a way to assess it that way...

one thought would be to be required to 'report' your vehicle's odometer to your insurer, on a regular basis, and then the insurer would be required to report those numbers to the taxing authority, since they already have to report whether you are insured.
I'm not so sure anyone would like that option any more than any other.

 

[lightspeed]

A) the 'government' would not rely on YOU to report your own mileage... they are not that trusting.

B) registration is billed in advance, not at the 'point of payment', so mileage would have to be known BEFORE registration/renewal.

C) do you really want the 'government' to know how many miles you drive every year, and then, of course, they'll provide that to your insurer, and then, of course, you'll have a major increase in your insurance?? (I'm an insurance agent, I wouldn't want this, either!)

I don't disagree with the premise of a 'per mile' charge, but that's not how our current gas/diesel road tax works, either, so you'd be starting something 'new' , even though that's probably always been the way it 'should have been' ... they just didn't have a way to assess it that way...

one thought would be to be required to 'report' your vehicle's odometer to your insurer, on a regular basis, and then the insurer would be required to report those numbers to the taxing authority, since they already have to report whether you are insured.
I'm not so sure anyone would like that option any more than any other.

I don't want to pay any more taxes and I don't want to gov to know anything, so clearly I am not proposing that this is how things should be.

Gov relies on you to provide information truthfully in many things (taxes, vehicle sales, etc..) and there are usually penalties associated with lying.

Whether billed in advance or not, the reg form could provide the last years self reported number, then simply ask "how many miles currently" and then compute a cost based on the difference. It doesn't matter if it covers exactly 1 year's worth of time because the difference would be captured in the next year (it all averages out in the end).

However it's done, I don't want any more tracking.

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