Best procedure for long term vehicle storage?

[chl]

Hello group. I am storing my Lariat ER for several months. The Ford manual under 'Preparing Your Vehicle for Storage' recommends that when storing the vehicle for more than 30 days the state of charge should be 50% and they recommend disconnecting the 12 volt battery 'which will reduce system loads on the HV battery'. I did search the forum and see some discussion but to be clear does this mean we do NOT connect the LV2 charger, then disconnect the 12v battery - LEAVING the frunk open - and maybe put the 12v battery on a trickle charger to maintain it. It sure seems like this is what is being suggested, rather than leaving the Lightning on the charger with the charge limit set at 50%. If it does - I cant think of a safe way of removing the 12v battery with the HV charger attached to the pickup. Remove the 12v and then attach the LV2 charger - does it work with the 12V removed??

One thing to consider might be the ambient temperatures and the protective active heating and cooling operations in the Lightning or any other modern EV.

I don't know exactly how the Ford handles the active heating/cooling, but I presume it requires the 12V battery to run the computing that detects HV battery temperature and implements the cooling or heating, just a guess.

So if you are storing it in an area subject to 'extreme' high or low temperatures, unless the Lightning is in a heat/cooled garage, I'd say be sure to keep the 12v battery on a trickle charger and don't disconnect it

I think Ford says to disconnect the 12v battery because the background processes of the Lightning, and other electrical leakage will discharge it. 12v batteries like to be kept 100% charged for longevity. Even so-called deep-cycle ones will last longer if kept fully charged.

For what it's worth, back in the 1970s when I was studying engineering, and battery tech, I learned that the very best way to store any lead-acid battery long term is, after disconnecting it, 1) fully charge it and then 2) drain the battery acid from it and put it in a cool dry place. That's the way the manufacturers did it, or used to anyway, with the battery acid being added at the point of sale when purchased and put in a vehicle. But now there are sealed batteries, and gel pack batteries, and batteries turn over faster at retailers, etc., so maybe that doesn't apply anymore except the 100% charge aspect.

The HV battery is not going to discharge much from the 50% level in 'several months' so keeping it connected to the L2 EVSE should not be needed. I only connect my Leaf to the L2 EVSE when it needs a charge, charging it 3-4 hours after 1 am to keep the electric bill minimized. I never noticed any HV discharge even after storing it for 2 months unplugged from L2.

I keep my 2012 Nissan Leaf 12v on a trickle charger when not in use and not parked in the sun where the roof solar cell trickle charges the 12v battery.

One year, I had it stored for about a month unused without a battery tender when I first got it and the 12v battery discharged running the charge timer and telemetrics so the Leaf was stuck in my garage until I bought a long enough jumper cable to reach it. Lesson learned. My salesman had assumed that with the L2 EVSE connected that the HV battery would maintain the 12v battery - wrong. The HV battery only charges the 12v when the vehicle is on - go figure. Still wondering why that is since having a fully charged 12v battery would be a good thing and it wouldn't take much stored energy from the HV battery to do it.

Maybe another option if you don't have the trickle charge availability would be to remotely turn the Lightning on for a period of time to let the HV battery recharge the 12V? The pre-conditioning function. Maybe that could be programmed into the vehicle to run every day?

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[RickLightning]

One thing to consider might be the ambient temperatures and the protective active heating and cooling operations in the Lightning or any other modern EV.

I don't know exactly how the Ford handles the active heating/cooling, but I presume it requires the 12V battery to run the computing that detects HV battery temperature and implements the cooling or heating, just a guess.

So if you are storing it in an area subject to 'extreme' high or low temperatures, unless the Lightning is in a heat/cooled garage, I'd say be sure to keep the 12v battery on a trickle charger and don't disconnect it

I think Ford says to disconnect the 12v battery because the background processes of the Lightning, and other electrical leakage will discharge it. 12v batteries like to be kept 100% charged for longevity. Even so-called deep-cycle ones will last longer if kept fully charged.

For what it's worth, back in the 1970s when I was studying engineering, and battery tech, I learned that the very best way to store any lead-acid battery long term is, after disconnecting it, 1) fully charge it and then 2) drain the battery acid from it and put it in a cool dry place. That's the way the manufacturers did it, or used to anyway, with the battery acid being added at the point of sale when purchased and put in a vehicle. But now there are sealed batteries, and gel pack batteries, and batteries turn over faster at retailers, etc., so maybe that doesn't apply anymore except the 100% charge aspect.

The HV battery is not going to discharge much from the 50% level in 'several months' so keeping it connected to the L2 EVSE should not be needed. I only connect my Leaf to the L2 EVSE when it needs a charge, charging it 3-4 hours after 1 am to keep the electric bill minimized. I never noticed any HV discharge even after storing it for 2 months unplugged from L2.

I keep my 2012 Nissan Leaf 12v on a trickle charger when not in use and not parked in the sun where the roof solar cell trickle charges the 12v battery.

One year, I had it stored for about a month unused without a battery tender when I first got it and the 12v battery discharged running the charge timer and telemetrics so the Leaf was stuck in my garage until I bought a long enough jumper cable to reach it. Lesson learned. My salesman had assumed that with the L2 EVSE connected that the HV battery would maintain the 12v battery - wrong. The HV battery only charges the 12v when the vehicle is on - go figure. Still wondering why that is since having a fully charged 12v battery would be a good thing and it wouldn't take much stored energy from the HV battery to do it.

Maybe another option if you don't have the trickle charge availability would be to remotely turn the Lightning on for a period of time to let the HV battery recharge the 12V? The pre-conditioning function. Maybe that could be programmed into the vehicle to run every day?

Unplugged from a vehicle charger, the Lightning isn't going to do anything to heat or cool the battery.

Remote starting is allowed 2x (or once and an extension), before you have to physically start it. And, remote starting doesn't heat or cool the battery, only a departure time does, which requires it to be plugged into a vehicle charger...

 

[chl]

Unplugged from a vehicle charger, the Lightning isn't going to do anything to heat or cool the battery.

Remote starting is allowed 2x (or once and an extension), before you have to physically start it. And, remote starting doesn't heat or cool the battery, only a departure time does, which requires it to be plugged into a vehicle charger...

Unplugged-no active heating or cooling?:

If that were really the case, it would be a shocking surprise and very dangerous!

Imagine a Lightning parked in the sun in a parking lot one summer in Phoenix for example. If the active cooling wasn't running, the battery would suffer from lost lifespan, and maybe even have a thermal runaway!

Tesla's cooling runs even when the vehicle is parked and off and unplugged as any Tesla owner will confirm, and as mentioned by the company:

See: https://www.tesla.com/support/range

Does outside temperature impact range?
Yes. Range can be impacted by extreme cold or hot temperatures; however, the impact will seem more noticeable in cold weather. Tesla high voltage batteries are regulated to keep the battery temperature within optimal boundaries. Even if the vehicle is not being operated, the high voltage battery temperature is monitored and regulated to prolong its lifespan and performance – this is why you may notice the compressor running even while parked. If you’re driving in low temperatures, view tips for driving in colder weather.

Same for the Bolt thermal management system according to Bolt owners.

The lack of active cooling contributed to early battery degradation in early Nissan Leaf's in areas like Phoenix AZ and southern CA, which only have air-cooled systems.

Anyway, many other posts here on the Forum note that even unplugged the thermal management system operates, but it does work differently than when plugged in in that the temperature thresholds are different.

Remote Starting doesn't heat or cool the battery?

The issue was keeping the 12v battery charged by remote starting the Lightning.
And besides, the thermal management system is apparently never off, even on the Lightning.

If you have support for your contrary response, please provide the link.

 

[RickLightning]

I'll let you look for the info.

There is no preconditioning of the battery without it being a) plugged in and b) a departure time set, except for when a DC fast charger is selected in navigation, then it starts 30km from the charger.

That's why you'll get "Outside Air Temperature High, Plug Vehicle In When not in use" warning.

 

[Barrels]

You are not understanding.

Do not charge the car with a Level 2 charger if the 12v is disconnected. It will do nothing.

Do what Ford tells you to. Leave HVB at 50%. Disconnect the 12v battery.

Then, if you want to, put the 12v on a trickle charger.

Actually I did understand that. I didn’t understand your responses. But its clear now. Thanks.

One thing to consider might be the ambient temperatures and the protective active heating and cooling operations in the Lightning or any other modern EV.

I don't know exactly how the Ford handles the active heating/cooling, but I presume it requires the 12V battery to run the computing that detects HV battery temperature and implements the cooling or heating, just a guess.

So if you are storing it in an area subject to 'extreme' high or low temperatures, unless the Lightning is in a heat/cooled garage, I'd say be sure to keep the 12v battery on a trickle charger and don't disconnect it

I think Ford says to disconnect the 12v battery because the background processes of the Lightning, and other electrical leakage will discharge it. 12v batteries like to be kept 100% charged for longevity. Even so-called deep-cycle ones will last longer if kept fully charged.

For what it's worth, back in the 1970s when I was studying engineering, and battery tech, I learned that the very best way to store any lead-acid battery long term is, after disconnecting it, 1) fully charge it and then 2) drain the battery acid from it and put it in a cool dry place. That's the way the manufacturers did it, or used to anyway, with the battery acid being added at the point of sale when purchased and put in a vehicle. But now there are sealed batteries, and gel pack batteries, and batteries turn over faster at retailers, etc., so maybe that doesn't apply anymore except the 100% charge aspect.

The HV battery is not going to discharge much from the 50% level in 'several months' so keeping it connected to the L2 EVSE should not be needed. I only connect my Leaf to the L2 EVSE when it needs a charge, charging it 3-4 hours after 1 am to keep the electric bill minimized. I never noticed any HV discharge even after storing it for 2 months unplugged from L2.

I keep my 2012 Nissan Leaf 12v on a trickle charger when not in use and not parked in the sun where the roof solar cell trickle charges the 12v battery.

One year, I had it stored for about a month unused without a battery tender when I first got it and the 12v battery discharged running the charge timer and telemetrics so the Leaf was stuck in my garage until I bought a long enough jumper cable to reach it. Lesson learned. My salesman had assumed that with the L2 EVSE connected that the HV battery would maintain the 12v battery - wrong. The HV battery only charges the 12v when the vehicle is on - go figure. Still wondering why that is since having a fully charged 12v battery would be a good thing and it wouldn't take much stored energy from the HV battery to do it.

Maybe another option if you don't have the trickle charge availability would be to remotely turn the Lightning on for a period of time to let the HV battery recharge the 12V? The pre-conditioning function. Maybe that could be programmed into the vehicle to run every day?

Good info and advice. One caution tho - a friend had his battery on a charger for months in the car and the battery blew up. I dont think I want to risk it.

what is the risk to the HV battery of cold?

 

[RickLightning]

Actually I did understand that. I didn’t understand your responses. But its clear now. Thanks.



Good info and advice. One caution tho - a friend had his battery on a charger for months in the car and the battery blew up. I dont think I want to risk it.

what is the risk to the HV battery of cold?

First, make sure this is a friend vs. a friend of a friend hearing something.

Second, do NOT put it on a battery charger. Put it on a BATTERY TENDER. It's basically impossible to "blow up a battery" that way.

The risk is that the battery loses too much and is very weak, and won't take a charge to be used. It's covered under the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty, so financially there is no risk to you.

 

[Barrels]

First, make sure this is a friend vs. a friend of a friend hearing something.

Second, do NOT put it on a battery charger. Put it on a BATTERY TENDER. It's basically impossible to "blow up a battery" that way.

The risk is that the battery loses too much and is very weak, and won't take a charge to be used. It's covered under the 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty, so financially there is no risk to you.

It was a ‘trickle charger’ which I take to be a Battery render. He is a good friend. He is capable - he designed and wired his home PV system which works well. I do not have more info (age/type of battery, make of charger, status of battery maintenance, etc).

Thanks

 

[Zprime29]

That's why you'll get "Outside Air Temperature High, Plug Vehicle In When not in use" warning.

Has anyone actually gotten that message? I left my truck in a parking lot, full sun, in Phoenix this past June. Temps 100-110 for over a week and I never got that. I'm curious to know what it takes to get the message.

 

[RickLightning]

Has anyone actually gotten that message? I left my truck in a parking lot, full sun, in Phoenix this past June. Temps 100-110 for over a week and I never got that. I'm curious to know what it takes to get the message.

You need to drive the truck, getting the battery nice and hot. Then, park it on a very hot day, like the 130 degree ones (at least one person noted that).

All the examples are the Mach-E. I assume it's the following reasons:

1) Mach-E has been out longer and there are more of them.
2) Truck has many with the towing package and extra cooling.
3) Truck's battery is much higher off ground and likely easier to cool on its own.
4) Truck was developed later and may have better cooling.
5) Truck has less "techies" tracking and posting.

A simple Google search:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ambient-temperature-high-warning.7022/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/high-exterior-temperature-warning.29661/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...re-low-plug-in-vehicle-when-not-in-use.14372/ - this one is a LOW temp warning...

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/high-temperature-leave-plugged-in.18879/

 

[Barrels]

Actually I did understand that. I didn’t understand your responses. But its clear now. Thanks.



Good info and advice. One caution tho - a friend had his battery on a charger for months in the car and the battery blew up. I dont think I want to risk it.

what is the risk to the HV battery of cold?

I will add that I called Ford. They quoted the manual. Take out the 12v battery and put it on a trickle charger if you want

PS - warranty on the HV battery is 8 years and 100K. Im covered if I follow the manual so its what Im gonna do.

Happy storing everyone

 

[RickLightning]

Did you think Ford would say anything different than the manual? That's what they're reading also.

 

[Barrels]

Did you think Ford would say anything different than the manual? That's what they're reading also.

I expected them to say the same as the manual and I hoped they would expand on why they they didnt recommend charging to protect the HV battery. They didnt.

 

[RickLightning]

I expected them to say the same as the manual and I hoped they would expand on why they they didnt recommend charging to protect the HV battery. They didnt.

Because they are customer service reps, not engineers or technical experts.

 

[Barrels]

Because they are customer service reps, not engineers or technical experts.

No Rick, Customer service put me on hold to talk to Engineering. True, they were relaying my question and the answers which hindered communication.

Maybe we can drop this thread now?

 

[bellyer]

Along the lines of the OP's question, my Lightning was in an accident last week and is in the body shop until likely December 11th, so it would be a period of about 4.5-5 weeks without it actually being driven or charged. Should I be asking the body shop to do anything in particular to ensure that the battery (either of them) health is not degraded or should it be fine? I know that the mobile charger is in the truck, so I supposed I could ask them to plug it in on 110v if it is near a usable outlet. Or, should this not be an issue really?

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