Are we losing the EV Revolution?

[sotek2345]

Lots of great conversation on this thread.

Regarding ways to increase EV adoption, I agree that the focus on Climate impact is self defeating.
I personally chose to buy the Lightning, primarily because it's a great pickup truck, with a price point (at least with the XLT) that worked for me. No part of me regrets the choice, however it is true that owning an EV with the current charging infrastructure and range limitations isn't for everyone.

The key point I wanted to make here is in response to a meme I saw recently, posted by one of my more conservative, and highly EV-averse friends on social media:

For many "freedom-loving", individual-liberty driven Americans, this is the crux of the matter.
EV's are one more way that "they're stealing my hard won liberties".

Focusing more on the fact that EV's are actually highly reliable, incredibly powerful/smooth/comfortable/capable AND provide you with more freedom of choice as to how to fuel them up - this will be the carrot that beats the stick approach.

I agree from the marketing standpoint - My Lightning is the best truck I have ever owned - without qualification.

That said, we need to move MUCH MUCH faster on the whole climate thing. People won't enjoy their "liberties" quite so much when modern society is collapsing from worldwide wars caused by the mass migration of billions of people.

 

[roadhouse]

AND provide you with more freedom of choice as to how to fuel them up - this will be the carrot that beats the stick approach.

Ironically in an apocalypse, the average person will have a better shot at charging their EV (solar panels, wind/hydro generator) than refining gas themselves (obviously excluding any Mad Max style fuel heists, which I fully believe some of these people would look forward to).

I also just point out that it only took about 4 days during the initial COVID surge for gas stations to start rationing fuel.

 

[MacLightning]

Ironically in an apocalypse, the average person will have a better shot at charging their EV (solar panels, wind/hydro generator) than refining gas themselves (obviously excluding any Mad Max style fuel heists, which I fully believe some of these people would look forward to).

I also just point out that it only took about 4 days during the initial COVID surge for gas stations to start rationing fuel.

I brewed biodiesel for about 5 years and can attest to the fact that even to make fuel of quality enough to run through a 30 year old farm tractor takes a lot of time, AND electricity that I can now just pump directly into my EV.

 

[Danface]

The only tinfoil beenie I want is for the TCU. When the feds gatther "meta data" there are congressional hearing but when Google, Apple, Ford, Akamai, and the hundreds of other companies that send ads for a product after you mention in conversation gather data it's "crickets".

I think the TCU has a battery backup so not just going to remove the fuse, it's coming out!

 

[PreservedSwine]

I brewed biodiesel for about 5 years and can attest to the fact that even to make fuel of quality enough to run through a 30 year old farm tractor takes a lot of time, AND electricity that I can now just pump directly into my EV.

Heh, same.
I brewed biodiesel, as well as converted one of my diesels to run straight grease.
I still can’t figure out what was more of a pain. The leftover biodiesel stew of the never ending used grease filtration and learning curve of just how to convert the fuel delivery system.
I ran a co-op for about 3 years, until the epa shut me down

 

[BuzzLightning2023]

Ironically in an apocalypse, the average person will have a better shot at charging their EV (solar panels, wind/hydro generator) than refining gas themselves (obviously excluding any Mad Max style fuel heists, which I fully believe some of these people would look forward to).

I also just point out that it only took about 4 days during the initial COVID surge for gas stations to start rationing fuel.

I had hoped my 9.6 kW Tesla photovoltaic system would be enough to power my house and my Lightning, but the math wasn’t working. Then I changed out my pool motor and the new one uses a full kW less than the old one. Puts me over the top so I can now claim my truck is fully solar powered. Ordered this…

 

[lightspeed]

Lots of great conversation on this thread.

Regarding ways to increase EV adoption, I agree that the focus on Climate impact is self defeating.
I personally chose to buy the Lightning, primarily because it's a great pickup truck, with a price point (at least with the XLT) that worked for me. No part of me regrets the choice, however it is true that owning an EV with the current charging infrastructure and range limitations isn't for everyone.

The key point I wanted to make here is in response to a meme I saw recently, posted by one of my more conservative, and highly EV-averse friends on social media:

For many "freedom-loving", individual-liberty driven Americans, this is the crux of the matter.
EV's are one more way that "they're stealing my hard won liberties".

Focusing more on the fact that EV's are actually highly reliable, incredibly powerful/smooth/comfortable/capable AND provide you with more freedom of choice as to how to fuel them up - this will be the carrot that beats the stick approach.

God that is so stupid. It's irritatingly stupid. Not because we shouldn't push back against government BS but because an EV is not magically different than a ICE car when it comes to communication and remote access. If an EV has the ability to be remote stopped by the government, then any modern ICE car would have the same ability. All modern vehicles are run by computers.

 

[Toby57]

God that is so stupid. It's irritatingly stupid. Not because we shouldn't push back against government BS but because an EV is not magically different than a ICE car when it comes to communication and remote access. If an EV has the ability to be remote stopped by the government, then any modern ICE car would have the same ability. All modern vehicles are run by computers.

Not stupid at all, and to many a very big concern.
Computers yes, but no OTA. The only access to the computers in my 2018 and 2021 is to plug something into the vehicle. One can read on many ICE forums that many that do have OTA capabilities have disabled it.

 

[Traconesu]

EXACTLY ! public chargers are getting better, but for many of us not ready for prime time. Example: I live in Hot Springs, AR and we are heading to Dallas to host a 20 person family Xmas event at a VRBO we rented. But after spending hours with ABRP, plug share, FordPass and a couple other apps, I concluded that we can make it IF the EA chargers in Mt. Pleasant, TX are working properly then we are fine. but if they aren't we jeopardize the whole family Christmas. So we are doing what I planned when I got my lightning, road trips will happen with my wifes Honda Pilot. no planning required.

Same problem visiting my daughter in Houston. between there and Hot Springs is a charging desert. When I get my Tesla adaptor it will be a game changer. both trips are easily doable.

EV's are an evolution not a revolution

I totally agree. I love my lightning and is the absolute best vehicle I've ever owned for local use. Charging at home is fantastic, no more waiting in gas stations lines. Very little to no maintenance required which has been another big plus. In the near future I hope to increase my inverter output so I can use my excess solar energy to charge my truck. Currently I'm right on the edge of supplying enough power for my 7200 watt charger & don't want to take the chance of overloading my inverters. One more inverter in parallel will give me 13,200 available wattage, which will be more than enough to power everything.

 

[Traconesu]

The only tinfoil beenie I want is for the TCU. When the feds gatther "meta data" there are congressional hearing but when Google, Apple, Ford, Akamai, and the hundreds of other companies that send ads for a product after you mention in conversation gather data it's "crickets".

I think the TCU has a battery backup so not just going to remove the fuse, it's coming out!

I believe it's located behind the rear seat and can easily be unplugged.

 

[Danface]

I believe it's located behind the rear seat and can easily be unplugged.

Thanks!!

 

[Traconesu]

[Yawn] I think government has done more to harm the “EV Revolution” than help it, through tax credits that manipulate the free market by vehicle price caps, domestic content requirements, and purchaser income caps.

Forget “green energy” for a moment. The discovery and development of the lithium-ion battery has changed our lives for the better. It has enabled cellphones, tablets and laptop computers, drones, practical cordless power tools, powered wheelchairs, etc., etc. It was inevitable that someone would take a computer and a big lithium-ion battery and connect them to an electric motor, add wheels, and use the contraption for getting around. Disguise it to look like a car, so we can drive it on the highways.

Let’s leave “climate crisis” politics out of EVs. People are buying these early EVs today on their merits as transportation (you can’t convince me that most people are willing to spend $40-$60k of their own money to “save the planet.”) The superior concept of the electric drivetrain automobile has been hijacked and co-opted by climate-change wackos and the irrepressible Left. I own three EVs (two purchased without tax credits), and would prefer them even if they contributed to climate change!

I personally didn't purchase my EV to save the planet, which I don't believe is true anyway. But instead was little to no maintenance required, no more waiting at gas stations, fill it up at home. The fact that in an emergency, I can power my essential equipment in my home for up to 10 days without the use of gasoline was also a factor. In the near future, I plan on doing most my charging off my existing solar system. I have the solar panels to do it, just need a little more inverter power output to do the job and I'll be set for when they decide to raise our electrical costs because there's too many EV'S on our grid.

 

[lightspeed]

I agree from the marketing standpoint - My Lightning is the best truck I have ever owned - without qualification.

That said, we need to move MUCH MUCH faster on the whole climate thing. People won't enjoy their "liberties" quite so much when modern society is collapsing from worldwide wars caused by the mass migration of billions of people.

Part of the problem with the climate debate is that grifters and power seeking maniacs use it to further their own agendas and force things on us that don't even address the issue (cap-n-trade for example). CO2 by itself is a real issue, but it's not going to end the world in ten years or whatever other hyperbolic statements these people make.

Regardless of warming, we should go electric to:
- not send $$$ to the middle east, venezuela, etc..
- be energy independent for security reasons
- we're going to run out of cheap oil eventually

Not stupid at all, and to many a very big concern.
Computers yes, but no OTA. The only access to the computers in my 2018 and 2021 is to plug something into the vehicle. One can read on many ICE forums that many that do have OTA capabilities have disabled it.

There is NOTHING special about EVs that makes OTA updates or other connected features unique to EVs. And you don't need OTA to have a software kill switch in any modern vehicle that has connected features. If the gov ever mandates remote kill, all cars will come with it. You can disable the modem in the Lightning the same as any other car and stop getting OTAs if you want. There is nothing uniquely pro government control conspiracy about having an EV powertrain.

 

[Traconesu]

In addition to all the points made by others, another key point is something that the CEO of Ford said after he took a Route 66 road trip in a Ligntning this summer. "The problem is not Range Anxiety. Rather, the problem is Charging Anxiety." People need to know that they can find WORKING high speed chargers when they are away from home. The opening up of the Tesla network early in 2024 will help a lot. P.S. I've been attempting to find working Electrify America chargers in the Boston area so I can use up my 500 balance. I've yet to find one that is truly available AND working when I get there!

The only problem I see with the tesla charger conversion is it seems they expect J1772 owners to pay for it. J1772 owners costs are higher for them than for tesla owners.

 

[Traconesu]

The current

This is essentially my exact take. I am not for government mandates - nor do I think they are needed - once people experience these I think they will prefer them on their own.

EV’s are not ideal for every use case - but I believe they do fit 90% or use cases and the lower maintenance and driving dynamics are phenomenal. I think the more people feel what these are like - free market forces will kick in and I believe that - combined with improvements in battery and charging technologies over the next 5-10 years will probably see BEV dominate in the long run.

Personally, I like the fact there aren't a flood of EV owners. As this market becomes flooded, you can be sure electrical charges will go up. EV owners need to do what I've been working on for years prior to purchasing my lightning, that is enough solar power to charge my truck with it. One more 4400 watt inverter paralleled to my system will do it.

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