Next GEN Ford F-150 Lightning Better Than Cybertruck: Farley

[F150ROD]

It will never be better than the Cybertruck.

There aren't enough influencers to drool over it and make the 100th Video on what wrap they put on or how cool it is that the bed has lighting.

Or the latest and greatest, which carwash to use.

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[Lytning]

Customer Need #1 from @Ford Motor Company ...

Reliability.

I can only imagine the quality and reliability issues which will occur with a Project T3 vehicle. At least with the Lightning, Ford had a good portion of the design already done and "proven" with the base F-150. Ford has a chance to screw up everything with Project T3.

 

[kstype]

I have absolutely no evidence to support this, but for whatever reason, I get the impression that Farley’s kids have influenced the desire to make Ford chase Tesla’s technology.

I thought I remember somewhere Farley mentioning he has teenage kids when he was discussing the charging infrastructure and how they mocked him for having to find a mall parking lot to charge the lightning while praising teslas chargers.

I really like to hear him talk about software because it means they recognize a weakness in the product. We all know range is the most important factor, but that is going to take a long time to solve. Farley has gone on record saying they want to increase charge speed so that the range concerns are not a problem.

We all know Tesla is the cool kids tech company. They absolutely prioritize having the best technology and improving it. They have that system down. I think we can all agree that technology is the one area legacy automakers just have no experience.

I keep being disappointed by how Ford handles the software updates for our current trucks, but I’m hoping this is a massive learning lesson for them in the next iteration. They have to open their mind and rethink how they have done things for decades. If that means weird brainstorming sessions thinking about a “lounge” in the truck, it also means they aren’t too stubborn in their old ways and they are willing to adapt.

I am hopeful that their Senior Exec Recruit from Apple - Doug Field - can help drive real change with their software teams - that really is the only negative part of the ownership for me over the last year - Fordpass / FCSP network disconnects and the somewhat laggier than desired UI (and even these are not that bad - just could be much better). Overall the driving characteristics of the truck and the utility it has is outstanding. I personally would never consider a Cybertruck - but it is an interesting design.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I for one want to see revolutionary improvements in "towing" range, granted most Lightning owners are grocery getters, but I'm hopeful.

Lowering weight would in theory help quite a bit with that. This is just an idea I've had personally, but I'd also love to see some sort of active areo flap of the back of the cab that could angle itself to deflect airflow more efficiently above the back of the truck, and front of the trailer.

The issue with trailers isn't just weight, but areo, the airflow drops closer to the bed after detaching from the cab, and just runs into the blunt wall of an enclosed trailer, not good.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Customer Need #1 from @Ford Motor Company ...

Reliability.

I can only imagine the quality and reliability issues which will occur with a Project T3 vehicle. At least with the Lightning, Ford had a good portion of the design already done and "proven" with the base F-150. Ford has a chance to screw up everything with Project T3.

To be fair, parts and components designed in house tend to be more reliable than having to wrangle 50 different suppliers. The maverick for instance was the first case of Ford engineering and building their electric motors in house, and those trucks are very reliable. The maverick has a better reliability score than most of the trucks on sale, love ours.

But beyond that, t3 will also be a much simpler platform. So that should also improve reliability. By the time it comes out, they will have been developing it for like 6-7 years, so they've had plenty of time to test and develop it.

Not to mention all of their software will be in house, which is another thing working in favor of the reliability. Having all the software designed by the same teams to work together harmlessly from the beginning, rather than bringing in software from 15 different groups who've never interacted.

 

[DeluxeStang]

I am amazed the new Kia E9 is listed with a drag efficiency of 0.28. If that is true, a 0.26 may be possible without making the vehicle look like a teardrop.

Yeah, here's what the three row Ford design looks like under a tarp.

 

[Maxx]

I was holding on to my CT reservation but cancelled it as soon as production truck and prices came out. Even at the same price, I like my Lightning better. The major advantage of CT for me was expected charging experience and piece of mind while traveling. Hopefully this gap will be closed soon.

The disadvantages are a lot more; loosing my spare ( or paying extra for it and loosing the bed). Settling for a wimpier frunk and back seat. Paying extra to get a color on the truck. Loosing convenience and safety of buttons and additional display. Loosing the functionality of the real rear view mirror with the bed closed. Almost zero phantom drain. No air suspension complication to worry about. More comfortable and quiet ride. Likely better insurance rate. In case of my Pro, less expensive with additional motor (compare to the non existent lower trim of CT)..... I could go on.

I would not take a serious look at T3 for at least a year after people have been driving it. I have a feeling our Version of Lightning will be the most hack-able version and most likely, a third party shop could work on it after warranty. With each subsequent version, dependency to the manufacturer will increase.

Frankly after owning Lightning for a year, I have to get a bit real with my use case. I enjoy the extra space of Lightning may be 2% of the time but have to deal with the extra size 100% of the time. A ranger size truck with a collapsible back (like Avalanche) would be more efficient and easier to deal with on day to day bases.

As other's have mentioned, Reliability and Range are the only things I care about. After a certain point, reliability can go down with adding more sensors and logic to disable the truck for every unexpected thing. It takes years of customer feedback to get the right balance after a new model is introduced. Range is not just about security of long distance travel. DCFC can make an EV more expensive than ICE to travel with both in terms of money and time. At the current battery density, for folks that do not travel that often, it is hard to justify the extra weight of extra battery. Until a new battery tech is available, ICE will have a market.

 

[djwildstar]

Overall, I find it hard to disagree with Ford's strategies here.

Batteries

• Current SR and ER ranges cover normal daily driving for the vast majority of drivers. I expect that the "range wars" will be short lived, and most buyers won't want to pay a huge premium for driving range they never use once chargers are reliable and available.
• LFP batteries will give the SR trucks a de-facto 10% range boost, since they can be charged to 100% on a regular basis. Given the size penalty, I'm not sure we'll see LFP for ER trucks any time soon.
• An 800V architecture will make a huge difference to road trips, since it effectively halves charging time; 15-20 minute road trip charging stops will be a lot more palatable than 30-40 minute stops.
• Once 800V is available, I can see a need for an "extreme range" (XR) variant for people who do a lot of long-distance towing. About 500 EPA miles should do the trick, and if it's an 800V battery should still charge 15% to 80% in about a half-hour.

Software is where Ford needs to focus. Even more than ICE vehicles, BEVs are software-driven, and Ford's lack of expertise here shows. I've heard that the T3 will be an entirely new computing platform, and I'm hoping that Ford gets the software right.

 

[brewski]

I for one want to see revolutionary improvements in "towing" range, granted most Lightning owners are grocery getters, but I'm hopeful.

Don't forget golf club carriers....

 

[cal]

Customer Need #1 from @Ford Motor Company ...

Reliability.

I can only imagine the quality and reliability issues which will occur with a Project T3 vehicle. At least with the Lightning, Ford had a good portion of the design already done and "proven" with the base F-150. Ford has a chance to screw up everything with Project T3.

Yea my fear is that Ford might try to do too much and lose in the end. Reliability and performance. Just improve on what you've already got.

I think we have good bones here! I'd buy another if it was better.

 

[cal]

I thought I read that T3 would be a ranger sized truck. Is it really the next gen Lightning?

 

[Zprime29]

Yeah, here's what the three row Ford design looks like under a tarp.

That's....not very promising. Looks like there's no head room in 3rd row. Like a super sized prius. I'm not digging it and hope it has better curb appeal once it's revealed.

 

[sotek2345]

That's....not very promising. Looks like there's no head room in 3rd row. Like a super sized prius. I'm not digging it and hope it has better curb appeal once it's revealed.

I had the same exact reaction, though it is hard to tell actual dimensions so I will try to keep an open mind.

 

[FordLightningMan]

I'm shocked Farley didn't say he expects Ford's new truck to he worse that the Cybertruck. /s

As far as EV trucks go, there's only two places I'd spend my money, Ford and Tesla. Let's hope they keep this arms race going and keep pushing each other to improve.

There's some stuff I really like about the CT, there's other stuff I really like about the Lightning. I could see myself bouncing back and forth between brands each new truck, just to keep experiencing what's fresh. I never owned a Ford in my life until the Lightning and the brand doesn't offer any other vehicle I'd consider. However, as long as their EV truck is F-150ish going forward, i'll keep it at the top of my buy list.

 

[Oafy44]

Looks like a model x under the tarp so no real 3rd row like a suburban or expedition

curious to see the Escalade IQ in person

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