Working Pro Power using Generator Lockout Kit to Feed the Whole Panel

[Danface]

I just successfully tested using Pro Power to feed the entire house, including at least of the two minisplits. The lockout is simply a sliding piece of metal that prevents the 30 amp, 240 volt breaker from being switch on when the main is on and vice versa. The nice thing is this means no hard wiring to certain circuits. We have town water and a gas fired hot water heater so the house was pulling .55 kw on one leg and .65 kw on the other so about 1.2 kw overall which makes feel comfortable about being able to use the other minisplit unit if need be. I generally only run one at time though. I did switch off the 240 volt dryer and EV charger breakers just to reduce the likelyhood of going over the 7.2 kw.

BTW, the configuration has a floating ground to prevent the truck GFCI from tripping.

I'm going to use the same setup at out place in Maine since outages there are pretty common.

Just figured I'd share the info.

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[PreservedSwine]

That sounds really great.
I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind.
Do you have a schematic or pics?
I’m not sure what a floating ground actually means in this scenario. How are you handling the neutral?

 

[Danface]

Using the common wire colors, the neutral (white wire) and the two hot legs (red and black wires) connect from the power cord from the truck through the wall mounted receptical to the panel. The ground (green wire) is not connected back to panel because if it was, the GFCI in the truck would sense the current flowing from the neutral to ground as a ground fault.

i figured out a GFCI works years ago when I tried to see which leg in in the outlet was hot by plugging an extension cord into the bathroom GFCI outlet and using the ground as the neutral for my light tester and that tripped the GFCI because the GFCI outlet sensed current going to ground via the ground wire. It was an "ah ha" moment ... the outlet sensed current flowing through the "green wire" which would happen if someone dropped a hair dryer into the bathtub etc.

I'm away on vacation but will take pics when home.

 

[Marcelo Zanetti]

This is very useful information. Thanks for sharing...

 

[WildBlue]

Using the common wire colors, the neutral (white wire) and the two hot legs (red and black wires) connect from the power cord from the truck through the wall mounted receptical to the panel. The ground (green wire) is not connected back to panel because if it was, the GFCI in the truck would sense the current flowing from the neutral to ground as a ground fault.

i figured out a GFCI works years ago when I tried to see which leg in in the outlet was hot by plugging an extension cord into the bathroom GFCI outlet and using the ground as the neutral for my light tester and that tripped the GFCI because the GFCI outlet sensed current going to ground via the ground wire. It was an "ah ha" moment ... the outlet sensed current flowing through the "green wire" which would happen if someone dropped a hair dryer into the bathtub etc.

I'm away on vacation but will take pics when home.

More specifically, a GFCI is comparing the current coming in on the hot to the current going out on the neutral. If the difference is more than 1ma or 5ma (I forgot which one), the GFCI assumes current is taking another return path than the neutral and trips. By not connecting the ground wire between the truck and your panel, the only other path to ground would be your house panel's ground.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

I too feel that a manual transfer switch with a main lockout is the way to go. All the hardware needed to go with the factory setup is crazy expensive and relies on too much electronics.

Flip a switch, plug in a cord and you're good to go. Wait for the neighbors lights to go on or a phone call from them before flipping off transfer system.

A small ups / uninterrupted power supply can be your automatic inexpensive immediate power source before you flip the switch and plug in the cord.

Generators are going to be a thing of the past. Especially the noise and maintenance factor. Yes, I have multiple generators including 2 trailer based diesels , other portable diesels, propane and natural gas and gasoline generators.

For 50k I have a noiseless generator / power supply that I can drive 99% of the time and park it when and if I need it.

Rick

 

[Danface]

I too feel that a manual transfer switch with a main lockout is the way to go. All the hardware needed to go with the factory setup is crazy expensive and relies on too much electronics.

Flip a switch, plug in a cord and you're good to go. Wait for the neighbors lights to go on or a phone call from them before flipping off transfer system.

A small ups / uninterrupted power supply can be your automatic inexpensive immediate power source before you flip the switch and plug in the cord.

Generators are going to be a thing of the past. Especially the noise and maintenance factor. Yes, I have multiple generators including 2 trailer based diesels , other portable diesels, propane and natural gas and gasoline generators.

For 50k I have a noiseless generator / power supply that I can drive 99% of the time and park it when and if I need it.

Rick

100% in agreement. One of reasons I bought the truck was the truck was the Pro Power "generator". When the electrician told me about the lockout kit, I was even happier because it eleminated the need to figure out which circuits to backup.

 

[Danface]

More specifically, a GFCI is comparing the current coming in on the hot to the current going out on the neutral. If the difference is more than 1ma or 5ma (I forgot which one), the GFCI assumes current is taking another return path than the neutral and trips. By not connecting the ground wire between the truck and your panel, the only other path to ground would be your house panel's ground.

Thanks for info!!

 

[Maquis]

More specifically, a GFCI is comparing the current coming in on the hot to the current going out on the neutral. If the difference is more than 1ma or 5ma (I forgot which one), the GFCI assumes current is taking another return path than the neutral and trips. By not connecting the ground wire between the truck and your panel, the only other path to ground would be your house panel's ground.

A class A GFCI must not trip at 3mA or less. It must trip at 6mA or more.

 

[Nikola 369]

I too feel that a manual transfer switch with a main lockout is the way to go. All the hardware needed to go with the factory setup is crazy expensive and relies on too much electronics.

Flip a switch, plug in a cord and you're good to go. Wait for the neighbors lights to go on or a phone call from them before flipping off transfer system.

A small ups / uninterrupted power supply can be your automatic inexpensive immediate power source before you flip the switch and plug in the cord.

Generators are going to be a thing of the past. Especially the noise and maintenance factor. Yes, I have multiple generators including 2 trailer based diesels , other portable diesels, propane and natural gas and gasoline generators.

For 50k I have a noiseless generator / power supply that I can drive 99% of the time and park it when and if I need it.

Rick

there is a way that is even cheaper. Just use a “ship to shore“ power switch. It’s a rotary drum switch with 4 poles, the mariners figured out the neutral problem long time ago. Take the circuits you want to backup and move to a small panel. Then install generator inlet flange in side of panel. Feed the house power to drum switch with 2pole 30 amp breaker. Then connect generator inlet to drum switch. So now you have position 1 is house power and position 2 is from lightning. Connect the load from drum switch to the mains in small critical circuit panel.
240v 8 circuit panel $28.00
3 position 12 terminal drum switch $33.00
generator inlet. $17.00
Cheap, easy, and safe. This took me 3 hrs to install.

 

[chl]

More specifically, a GFCI is comparing the current coming in on the hot to the current going out on the neutral. If the difference is more than 1ma or 5ma (I forgot which one), the GFCI assumes current is taking another return path than the neutral and trips. By not connecting the ground wire between the truck and your panel, the only other path to ground would be your house panel's ground.

There is another path from the neutral to ground via your body if you touch the truck frame. You will feel a shock and if it is working, the GFCI will open. This is not theory this happened to someone whose electrical installer wired a dwelling under construction and disconnected the ground wire from the truck to the house.

Not having the ground from the generator (truck) to the load (house) panel is a no-no according the code if the house is a dwelling.

For $400 and a little time you could do it right using a Generac 6853 Transfer Switch.
The circuits being transfered have their hot and neutrals connected through the transfer switch so they are not bonded (grounded) to the panel ground when being powered by the generator (truck).

 

[Ricks Lightning]

there is a way that is even cheaper. Just use a “ship to shore“ power switch. It’s a rotary drum switch with 4 poles, the mariners figured out the neutral problem long time ago. Take the circuits you want to backup and move to a small panel. Then install generator inlet flange in side of panel. Feed the house power to drum switch with 2pole 30 amp breaker. Then connect generator inlet to drum switch. So now you have position 1 is house power and position 2 is from lightning. Connect the load from drum switch to the mains in small critical circuit panel.
240v 8 circuit panel $28.00
3 position 12 terminal drum switch $33.00
generator inlet. $17.00
Cheap, easy, and safe. This took me 3 hrs to install.

Not too sure about the quality of an 8 circuit panel with breakers for $28.

The nice thing about the lockout plate is you're using all your original panel and breakers. Just adding 2 circuit breakers to the panel and an inlet receptical.

That drum switch might be fine for a boat or rv, but I doubt anything you listed is UL rated for a home.

Heck a few 12 gauge extensions cords will work as needed with no rewiring, just a bit of leg work.

Rick

 

[Danface]

there is a way that is even cheaper. Just use a “ship to shore“ power switch. It’s a rotary drum switch with 4 poles, the mariners figured out the neutral problem long time ago. Take the circuits you want to backup and move to a small panel. Then install generator inlet flange in side of panel. Feed the house power to drum switch with 2pole 30 amp breaker. Then connect generator inlet to drum switch. So now you have position 1 is house power and position 2 is from lightning. Connect the load from drum switch to the mains in small critical circuit panel.
240v 8 circuit panel $28.00
3 position 12 terminal drum switch $33.00
generator inlet. $17.00
Cheap, easy, and safe. This took me 3 hrs to install.

Interesting ... The lockout allows for feeding the entire panel so there's no need to preselect what circuits to backup.

 

[Danface]

I had an electrician do the work and will have it inspected when I return home and will share the outcome.

From what I've gathered, because the generator is not permanent, there is no need for a transfer switch, I suppose I'll find out

 

[Danface]

There is another path from the neutral to ground via your body if you touch the truck frame. You will feel a shock and if it is working, the GFCI will open. This is not theory this happened to someone whose electrical installer wired a dwelling under construction and disconnected the ground wire from the truck to the house.

Not having the ground from the generator (truck) to the load (house) panel is a no-no according the code if the house is a dwelling.

For $400 and a little time you could do it right using a Generac 6853 Transfer Switch.
The circuits being transfered have their hot and neutrals connected through the transfer switch so they are not bonded (grounded) to the panel ground when being powered by the generator (truck).

I wonder why the ground terminal in the receptacle couldn't be connected to a grounding rod so it would be an isolated ground. I know there are parts of the code about multiple paths to ground but it seems to makes sense??

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