Well, the inspector failed my (second) Generac Homelink installation for the Lightning

[Newton]

I got an inspector who had never seen a neutral switching transfer station before. He did not like the idea at all. I have installed the same thing In a different city with no problems but probably made the mistake of mentioning the EV. He called his supervisor and they are not sure what to make of a generator on wheels. It is a separately derived system which might require a ground rod, but he didn’t want to trust me to hook it up to a ground rod. The Generac manual says a ground rod to the generator may be required. I think the issue is that the GFCI won’t trip when required if there isn’t a good ground and it comes down to whether or not the ground in the cable from the truck to the house ground rod is sufficient. I think that is a grey area; NEC says that the generator in a SDS must be grounded but does it count if it is attached to grounded equipment? I try to read some of the OSHA stuff on this and get confused. I see no dedicated grounding point on the truck.

Does anybody have references from Ford or Generac that might help me out? The guy is interested because he knows that this issue is coming but I apparently am the first in this town. Normally generators have a way to disconnect the neutral/ground bond but there appears to be no way to do that on the truck.

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[astrand1]

Well as for a generator on wheels goes. I work in the movie industry and we have truck mounted big generators as well as trailer mounted gen sets. Sometimes in certain conditions like if power is running into a building we will “bond” to the ground in the building but if we are just outside running only our own stuff then no ground rod. Just the ground that runs back to the gen set it self. Not sure if that helps. And we may somehow be exempt since it’s temp power.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

You'll have to spoon feed the inspector codes and regulations. One of the worst things is an AHJ that doesn't know what they're talking about. If they've never seen or heard of how a generator transfer switch works, they are not qualified for their inspection. It's perfectly normal what you've done. And it's how code requires it for a bonded neutral generator.

Ask for a different inspector.

 

[Maquis]

The scope of inspection is limited to premesis wiring. He shouldn’t be concerned with what you are connecting to the generator inlet. Ask him to either cite a specific code section that is violated or pass it. He can’t make up his own rules.

ETA - Proper functioning of a GFCI does not require a connection to dirt.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Yeah. A grounding rod is not some magical wand that absorbs and transmits fault current to wherever it needs to go. Fault current needs to go to the source. The earth is not a pathway to the source for the F150 nor most portable generators. That's what the neutral and grounding conductor are for. Maquis is right, tell them to cite a code/regulation you're violating, or pass it.

 

[Danface]

There is language in most codes regarding emergency or temporary connections that allow for the ground from the truck to not have to be tied to the house ground (that would trip the GFCI on the truck) nor a grounding rod which means (I think) that it's a floating ground which, again, is OK for a temporary or emergency connection.

 

[Ricks Lightning]

Slightly off subject, but as a plumbing contractor I’ve dealt with inspectors who were not educated in newer products or technology. What I had to do is provide them with the manufacturers installation paperwork. Now I’m sure you can email them the files. If all else fails, contact generac and have them supply their approvals from the testing labs.
It’s possible that the inspector is not necessarily an electrician, but rather more of a combination inspector with no real hands on electrical knowledge. Ask them what code section or interpretation they are concerned with. Then see what the generac in-house engineering team has to say.

Rick

 

[Newton]

I think that the issue is 702.11(a) (he pointed to it quickly and I didn’t write it down)

702.11 Portable Generator Grounding
(A) Separately Derived System
Where a portable optional standby source is used as a separately derived system, it shall be grounded to a grounding electrode in accordance with 250.30.


This exception might apply if I can get Ford to certify that it is listed and identified as suitable for use as service equipment. I’m sure that I can just call Ford customer service and get a clear answer to that one, right?

(4) Grounding Electrode
The building or structure grounding electrode system shall be used as the grounding electrode for the separately derived system. If located outdoors, the grounding electrode shall be in accordance with 250.30(C).
Exception: If a separately derived system originates in equipment that is listed and identified as suitable for use as service equipment, the grounding electrode used for the service or feeder equipment shall be permitted to be used as the grounding electrode for the separately derived system.
Informational Note No. 1: See 250.104(D) for bonding requirements for interior metal water piping in the area served by separately derived systems.
Informational Note No. 2: See 250.50 and 250.58 for requirements for bonding all electrodes together if located at the same building or structure.

 

[Newton]

This might be the solution. It is specific to Washington State but other states have similar wording in the code:

WAC 296-305-06008

(b) Vehicle-mounted generators. Under the following conditions, the frame of a vehicle may serve as the grounding electrode for a system supplied by a generator located on the vehicle:
(i) The frame of the generator is bonded to the vehicle frame;
(ii) The generator supplies only equipment located on the vehicle and/or cord-connected and plug-connected equipment through receptacles mounted on the vehicle or on the generator; and
(iii) The noncurrent-carrying metal parts of equipment and the equipment grounding conductor terminals of the receptacles are bonded to the generator frame.

 

[Toby57]

I think that the issue is 702.11(a) (he pointed to it quickly and I didn’t write it down)

702.11 Portable Generator Grounding
(A) Separately Derived System
Where a portable optional standby source is used as a separately derived system, it shall be grounded to a grounding electrode in accordance with 250.30.


This exception might apply if I can get Ford to certify that it is listed and identified as suitable for use as service equipment. I’m sure that I can just call Ford customer service and get a clear answer to that one, right?

(4) Grounding Electrode
The building or structure grounding electrode system shall be used as the grounding electrode for the separately derived system. If located outdoors, the grounding electrode shall be in accordance with 250.30(C).
Exception: If a separately derived system originates in equipment that is listed and identified as suitable for use as service equipment, the grounding electrode used for the service or feeder equipment shall be permitted to be used as the grounding electrode for the separately derived system.
Informational Note No. 1: See 250.104(D) for bonding requirements for interior metal water piping in the area served by separately derived systems.
Informational Note No. 2: See 250.50 and 250.58 for requirements for bonding all electrodes together if located at the same building or structure.

Sorry, but your Lightning is not recognized by the NEC as listed and identified for use as service equipment.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

The easy answer for this is stop telling them about the truck. All they need to know is that you'll be using a bonded neutral generator in the future and operating it in accordance with manufacturer's instructions. The end.

If this inspector is too incompetent and thinks that there must be a bond in your sub panel, then attach the bond. Let them pass it, then take the stupid bond out after they leave. Sometimes the only way to satisfy stupid is to temporarily sink to their level.

 

[MaintGrl]

You'll have to spoon feed the inspector codes and regulations. One of the worst things is an AHJ that doesn't know what they're talking about. If they've never seen or heard of how a generator transfer switch works, they are not qualified for their inspection. It's perfectly normal what you've done. And it's how code requires it for a bonded neutral generator.

Ask for a different inspector.

Best way to win friends and influence people . . "Ask for a different inspector."

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Best way to win friends and influence people . . "Ask for a different inspector."

It's a last resort. But if the inspector you have is failing to do his job, cites non existent regulations, or can't give any valid reason to not pass the job, what else is left?

 

[mrstancy]

I got an inspector who had never seen a neutral switching transfer station before. He did not like the idea at all. I have installed the same thing In a different city with no problems but probably made the mistake of mentioning the EV. He called his supervisor and they are not sure what to make of a generator on wheels. It is a separately derived system which might require a ground rod, but he didn’t want to trust me to hook it up to a ground rod. The Generac manual says a ground rod to the generator may be required. I think the issue is that the GFCI won’t trip when required if there isn’t a good ground and it comes down to whether or not the ground in the cable from the truck to the house ground rod is sufficient. I think that is a grey area; NEC says that the generator in a SDS must be grounded but does it count if it is attached to grounded equipment? I try to read some of the OSHA stuff on this and get confused. I see no dedicated grounding point on the truck.

Does anybody have references from Ford or Generac that might help me out? The guy is interested because he knows that this issue is coming but I apparently am the first in this town. Normally generators have a way to disconnect the neutral/ground bond but there appears to be no way to do that on the truck.

You need a MTS (Manuel transfer switch ) for the truck with a plug this would go in before the ATS ( automatic transfer switch) temp gens do not need to grounded with a grounding rod but ground the MTS with grounding rod

 

[Henry Ford]

We've had this discussion before but it was theoretical. Now that an inspector is involved it's real.

Based on what code says and what the Generac installation manual says I think the inspector is correct, a generator connected to the switching panel requires a ground.

@Newton, is the grounding rod for your house easily accessible to your truck? Maybe the inspector would pass it if you showed him you would ground the truck while powering the house? I'm not exactly sure how the truck would handle this but I'm inclined to believe it would work.

The most obvious place for a ground is a bolt through the trailer hitch receiver. It's easy enough to install that an inspector might buy that you'd actually use it...and you might actually use it if you go through the trouble of putting together a binding wire.

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