Real world heating data for 2024 in the cold

[MADequipment]

What is your opinion of the noise level when it's working hard and you're in traffic or sitting still?

Update. 70dB standing at drivers side mirror during preconditioning. 50 dB at the top of the 15” center display with door closed.

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[srvethelord]

There are so many variables... unless and until we see a test with two trucks driving the exact same road at the exact same time, to rule out "minor" wind/speed/temperature variations that actually have a major effect on efficiency, I don't know if we can draw any solid conclusions.

The heat pump *should* be a little better in good conditions, i.e. "not too cold", but even the resistive heater only draws a few kW steady state so there's not all that much room for improvement. I hope someone does a properly controlled test at some point; I'd like to know if I'm wrong.

I disagree entirely. I have a 2022 Platinum. I live in Northern VA (near DC). Temps have been in the 20's. Keeping the heat at 72, driving between 50-55 miles an hour I can watch the GOM range drop 1-3 miles per minute, averaging about 1.6 M/KW. Heat is a HUGE draw on the range. Driving in the same conditions with the heat off I get between 1.9-2.1.

Charging at home is a must. I've had the vehicle almost a year and have only charged at home. But man, driving with the heat on absolutely kills the range. Reminds me of the gas gauge in the 1969 Firebird I had as a kid.

 

[21st Century Truck]

Driving my now-gone 2022 Mach E Mustang, in the Summer its AC unit barely drew traction battery energy... some but never enough to make a difference, even in mid-Summer in the Great Plains.

Its cabin heater, on the other hand, just killed the traction battery on really cold Winter driving. It was sweatshirts and hats. Of course, its huge panoramic roof was also a culprit, as it was calculated to reflect Summer UV sun heating but it seemed to radiate lower-frequency cabin heat out during Winter as if it was a mosquito screen.

So based on the Mach E implementation in both seasons, I'd guess that a 2024 heat pump in the Lightning will be a significant improvement during Winter months.

I'm sure we will all know for sure come March 2025.

 

[Robob]

We haven't gotten into negative temps yet but at around 15-20F the heat pump is performing great compared to my old Mach E GT, it doesn't heat up quite as fast as the PTC heater, but it feels like the cabin gets much warmer than mach e. Both vehicles I would set to 72-75F only diff in F150 it has the "driver preference" HVAC mode that turns off the pass side controls. Not sure if it impacts heating though

There is increased NVH from the heat pump when its running in heat mode below 30 degrees I hear the whirr of the compressor more and feel the ramp up in the wheel/pedals.

On a road trip on i91 I was getting 1.7-1.8mi/kWH @ 65-70mph in 48f if that helps for reference.

 

[William Munny]

I think there needs to be separate threads for each type of "cold." Cold here on Long Island is not the same as cold elsewhere. Such a thread would be very helpful because people who live in much more moderate cold, like Long Island, may be scared away from buying an EV based upon threads about efficiency in Canada cold.

How much does efficiency drop in temps of 40-30? 30-20? 20 to 10? 10-0? 0 - minus 10? etc etc.

I get drop in efficiency, but nothing crazy unless it gets down to like the 20s or below.

 

[Evlar77]

I think there needs to be separate threads for each type of "cold." Cold here on Long Island is not the same as cold elsewhere. Such a thread would be very helpful because people who live in much more moderate cold, like Long Island, may be scared away from buying an EV based upon threads about efficiency in Canada cold.

How much does efficiency drop in temps of 40-30? 30-20? 20 to 10? 10-0? 0 - minus 10? etc etc.

I get drop in efficiency, but nothing crazy unless it gets down to like the 20s or below.

I agree, I'd enjoy seeing a thread where the models with and without a heat pump have a graph showing efficiency on the y axis and temperature on the x axis in similar driving conditions would be neat to see. Perhaps even a different tab for common speeds. 45mph and 70 mph.

It would take folks with both models to take the time to plan these on varied days, same route, varied temps and speeds. But would be interesting data to have.

 

[Matfus11]

Anyone have a 2023 in MN and about thirty minutes to kill?

Thanks @MADequipment for posting this. I also live in MN just got a 2024 Flash and wonder about winter range.

In a separate thread @Keanen posted about doing a 2023 vs 2024 comparison for someone living in the twin cities area.

 

[MADequipment]

There are so many variables... unless and until we see a test with two trucks driving the exact same road at the exact same time, to rule out "minor" wind/speed/temperature variations that actually have a major effect on efficiency, I don't know if we can draw any solid conclusions.

The heat pump *should* be a little better in good conditions, i.e. "not too cold", but even the resistive heater only draws a few kW steady state so there's not all that much room for improvement. I hope someone does a properly controlled test at some point; I'd like to know if I'm wrong.

I think the crew here wants quantification if at all able. We’re all guessing with intuition really.

I think there needs to be separate threads for each type of "cold." Cold here on Long Island is not the same as cold elsewhere. Such a thread would be very helpful because people who live in much more moderate cold, like Long Island, may be scared away from buying an EV based upon threads about efficiency in Canada cold.

How much does efficiency drop in temps of 40-30? 30-20? 20 to 10? 10-0? 0 - minus 10? etc etc.

I get drop in efficiency, but nothing crazy unless it gets down to like the 20s or below.

This is the key question. How much range loss does the heat pump prevent at 50F, 30F, and 0F? If we had to guess, it’s probably 15%, 5%, and 0% but I just say that based on my experience with an air source heat pump for my house.

 

[William Munny]

I think the crew here wants quantification if at all able. We’re all guessing with intuition really.



This is the key question. How much range loss does the heat pump prevent at 50F, 30F, and 0F? If we had to guess, it’s probably 15%, 5%, and 0% but I just say that based on my experience with an air source heat pump for my house.

Not just models with the heat pump, I’d like to see efficiency loss on modes without a heat pump too at these different temperatures.

 

[Keanen]

Not just models with the heat pump, I’d like to see efficiency loss on modes without a heat pump too at these different temperatures.

I'm trying to capture data like this in my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@MNEVTravels

 

[Keanen]

Thanks @MADequipment for posting this. I also live in MN just got a 2024 Flash and wonder about winter range.

In a separate thread @Keanen posted about doing a 2023 vs 2024 comparison for someone living in the twin cities area.

Thanks for the ping @Matfus11 !!

@MADequipment I would like to connect and do some experiments. Some that come to mind:
- Cold start, how long to get to temp (pick your cold ambient temp)
- Take a 30 minute drive and compare results

What other data would be valuable to folks?

 

[Firn]

For those with the car scanner app you can see how much energy is being used by the PTC heater and I imagine the same is possible for the heat pump. Using actual power draw would be way better than range or m/kWH numbers.

 

[fitek]

There are so many variables... unless and until we see a test with two trucks driving the exact same road at the exact same time, to rule out "minor" wind/speed/temperature variations that actually have a major effect on efficiency, I don't know if we can draw any solid conclusions.

Here's something which can give us an upper bound on the range improvement: I've swapped out two resistive water heaters for heat pump water heaters. Energy use dropped by 80% in both cases. It might be better to compare electric strip heaters to minisplits but based on having installed quite a few over the last half decade, the efficiency varies quite a bit based on system size and I'll wager the compact water heater heat pump is a better comparison than a building's heat pump (smallest building unit you could buy would probably be 6k-ish BTU). I don't own a Lightning so I don't know how much energy use goes to HVAC if you drive your pack down, but assuming it was 10% and the water heater efficiency is a decent comparison, it should go down towards 2% (blowers probably don't use too much energy). But, there's an additional consideration, which is that in a reversible heat pump, heating efficiency is usually worse than cooling, so this upper bound is for heating only. Anyway, in the end, if your range were actually 320 miles in an ER, and 10% went to heating with electric resistive heaters, we're talking about a difference of at most 25 miles due to the heat pump. IRL it will be less.

 

[JerseyMike]

For all those potential shoppers out there wondering if this truck is for them, I’d like to add my 0.02.

I own a 24 Lariat and live in the frigid state of MN but in the metro area which is lots of sprawl.

I run heated seats and heated steering wheel always with cabin temp at 72F. At most my commutes will hit 120 miles per day but with traffic since I’m in the suburbs, that’s typically a 45 mph average. If you calculate the MPH average for my trip today, it’s 28 because it’s very slick out today on the roads. Quite frankly anyone doing 70mph when it’s sub freezing is being pretty risky.

So on this blustery cold day of 18F, here’s my data with preconditioning to start the day off. I have a home charger and I consider that a prerequisite for EV ownership. If charged to 90% per Ford recommendations, this gives me a range of about 210.

so if I have that right 103 miles at 53% which equates to 194 miles at 100%.....that seems pretty bad actually.....in cold here in NJ (20s to 30s) I currently see 185 miles if I were to charge to 100% (mixed driving with highways at 75mph and backroads mostly around 40-55), I have a level and 34's and kicker is mine is a 2022 SR lariat. If I were to drive 28mph average it would be better.....I run my heat lower though...typically 66-68 if just me and 71-72 with family in car....seat and wheel heater on too

 

[MADequipment]

so if I have that right 103 miles at 53% which equates to 194 miles at 100%.....that seems pretty bad actually.....in cold here in NJ (20s to 30s) I currently see 185 miles if I were to charge to 100% (mixed driving with highways at 75mph and backroads mostly around 40-55), I have a level and 34's and kicker is mine is a 2022 SR lariat. If I were to drive 28mph average it would be better.....I run my heat lower though...typically 66-68 if just me and 71-72 with family in car....seat and wheel heater on too

I don’t trust the range meter. I just calculate based on percentage used and assumption of 131kwh capacity of the pack.

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