GM Is Making A Big Bet On Super Cruise. It Seems To Be Paying Off

[marc_hanna]

My understanding of Tesla Autopilot is it's equivalent to Ford's Adaptive Cruise Control. There is no hands free option. Full Self Driving allows hands-free navigation but costs $8000 or $99/month. BlueCruise seems to be somewhere in-between and is priced accordingly.

BlueCruise 1.0 isn't very good and isn't worth $50/month. BC1.4 is much better and will be worth $50/month to someone who does a lot of highway driving. I'm one of those people.

If Ford's take rate is half of GMs they are on equal footing. I'm guessing it will be less. In my opinion, they should use the Netflix model; start with a "might as well"* price and slowly raise it until they find optimum revenue. It's easier to keep subscribers than it is to make subscribers.

* A price so low you might as well try it.

I personally wouldn't pay anything for BC as it is now, and even though 1.4 is supposed to be a lot better, it's still only a small marginal improvement, and I still don't think I'm willing to pay for it

Tesla's full self-driving is exceptional, and I bought the lifetime version. You can use it full hands free on every road. It compensates in construction zones, and can even correct its own mistakes.

If Ford can get to something that is half as good as Tesla's FSD, I would be willing to pay half as much for it.

I might take out a Chevy for a drive and see how their's works.

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[Altivec]

One of the reasons I didn't buy a GM truck was due to their forced subscription. I paid big bucks for my Cadillac 10 years ago which was their highest end. I was shocked to learn after 3 years that they cancelled access to the App unless I paid a ridiculous amount for Onstar. But I don't need or use Onstar. All I want is to check my charge and maybe use the remote start a few times a year. I still own the car but have no app. This simple thing put a very sour taste in my mouth and I vowed to never buy another GM. To this day, that is held true. I am very grateful that Ford has a free tier for the basics and that decision at least earned them my sales. I definitely think it's the right approach.

Now for monetizing on their subscription services such as Bluecruise, they need to get their act together on updates. Subscription means the user is expecting to be using the latest and greatest software. Having people stuck on Version 1, when they have 4 newer iterations angers people. I get this is tough on them and they are still learning but there is no way they should be charging for it until they have the update mechanism working. All this is doing is turning people away and ruining Blue cruises reputation.

 

[PrimeRisk]

Under what conditions can you use Autopilot hands free?

All conditions at all times as long as you have a Tesla with an interior camera. (Note that in certain very dark conditions, the camera may not be able to see just as the sun at certain angles can blind the BC cameras). This is Model 3s, Model Ys, CyberTruck, and refreshed versions of Model S and X. Older, pre-refresh Teslas do require hands on the wheel for attention monitoring.

I'm not sure what you mean by "side-streets." I've used non-handsfree BlueCruise all over town. I don't find it particularly useful in town but it certainly works.

That is not actually Bluecruise, that is ACC with lane-keeping assist that is included at no subscription cost in Ford vehicles. Bluecruise only works on mapped highways and limited access freeways. I live in Denver-Metro and not even all of I-25 is enabled for Bluecruise through the core of the city. When driving on BC, when I hit one of those stretches, it automatically drops back to ACC with lane-keeping and starts signaling that you must put your hands on the wheel. The switchover can be quite jarring, especially if you are in a curve when it disengages.

I'm not arguing. I've not used any Tesla system. The Tesla website has this to say about Autopilot.

This seems equivalent to Ford's ACC or maybe non-handsfree BlueCruise. Is that not accurate?

No worries, no arguments perceived nor on my part either.

What Tesla describing on it's website is accurate, but leaving out some of the less functional issues such as reading the traffic signals/signs and hands-free attention monitoring. Maybe the better way to look at this is there is virtually no difference in functionality between Ford's ACC with lane-keeping assist and Bluecruise, but there is a difference in quality. The lane-keeping assist when in Bluecruise is much smoother (less ping-ponging) than ACC with lane-keeping assist. The only functional difference is if you have Bluecruise v1.3 or higher, you can turn on your signal and it will then move into the respective lane without you turning the wheel. Tesla Autopilot requires you to engage the turn signal and steer into the lane. Automation of that particular feature is reserved for EAP and FSD.

Another difference between Bluecruise and all Tesla modes is it will never engage off of the mapped highways and limited access freeways. Tesla ACC, AP, EAP, and FSD will engage and operate anywhere as long as you are on a street (even streets with no lane markings). I have discovered that FSD will also engage in marked parking lots and drive you out to the street and on your way to your entered destination. As long as the navigation shows a blue line showing your path, it will engage and drive you to your destination and if the destination is another parking lot with markings, it will even drive you into that parking lot to the front door of the address you have entered.

Tesla's site is not very up to date on the details of some feature enhancements. The hands-free system was only enabled about a year ago, though the cameras have been in the cars for much longer. Tesla seems to test these types of features for a very long time before releasing to the public. AP, EAP, and FSD will all work without hands on the wheel. I'd have to actually test how ACC works as I've never used it in my vehicles, only in a 2016 Model S and it did not require any hands on the wheel. Even though that old model did not have lane-keeping assist, it did have lane departure avoidance which is a predecessor feature. It doesn't try to center you in your lane as a driving assistance feature, but does steer you back into the lane if you get too close to the edge of the lane as a safety feature. This feature still exists today in current model Teslas, but you'll only see it if you are manually steering and drift too close to a lane marker. You could engage ACC and just let go of the steering wheel and it will happily ping-pong you down the road while screaming at you each correction. I certainly wouldn't attempt a curve in that mode of operation though.

I love my Lightning, so I'm no hater nor am I a Tesla fan-boi. This is simply my knowledge and experience on the differences between the two ecosystems. In a nutshell, Ford's driver assistance features are roughly where Tesla was with their systems in 2016. Ford started 5 years later in 2021 with it's very first rollout of Bluecruise. The difference is in the last 4 years, Bluecruise has advanced at a glacial place compared to what Tesla did between 2016 and 2020. This gap in functionality and reliability is not closing, it is in fact widening.

I took a 2025 Cybertruck on a demo drive today while I was having some maintenance done on my 2021 Model Y Performance. I drove it for about 2 hours and the difference between the FSD functionality in 4 years was mind blowing. My 2021 has v3 hardware and v12 FSD software. The Cybertruck has v4 hardware and v13 software. The difference is night and day in how smooth it operates and anticipates changing driving conditions. My conclusion is that the Cybertruck is a "show" truck and the Lightning is a "real" truck. I would pay $10k cash plus subscription if they could put the Tesla FSD system (hardware and software) in the Lightning. That would be nirvana.

I came back from the demo drive when they pinged me that my vehicle was ready. When I walked back in to hand them the keycard, I asked what it would look like to trade my 2021 Model Y Performance in on a 2025 Cybertruck. Showing me the numbers dampened my enthusiasm a bit, but I did ask how many people did just what I did. She said about 1 in 4. If they had a refresh Model Y available for demo, I may very well have a 2025 on order right now.

I now understand why Tesla service centers have demo vehicles and encourage those who are waiting on service to drive around instead of watching daytime TV while sipping crappy coffee in their lounge.

I encourage you to contact your closest Tesla showroom or service center and ask if you can take one on a 1+ hour demo (vs test) drive or even overnight. Generally if you want to do it mid-week they are happy to accommodate a long demo and will do overnights if they believe you are serious. You really need some time to understand the controls and really put it through it's paces to understand the value.

 

[Oafy44]

All conditions at all times as long as you have a Tesla with an interior camera. (Note that in certain very dark conditions, the camera may not be able to see just as the sun at certain angles can blind the BC cameras). This is Model 3s, Model Ys, CyberTruck, and refreshed versions of Model S and X. Older, pre-refresh Teslas do require hands on the wheel for attention monitoring.



That is not actually Bluecruise, that is ACC with lane-keeping assist that is included at no subscription cost in Ford vehicles. Bluecruise only works on mapped highways and limited access freeways. I live in Denver-Metro and not even all of I-25 is enabled for Bluecruise through the core of the city. When driving on BC, when I hit one of those stretches, it automatically drops back to ACC with lane-keeping and starts signaling that you must put your hands on the wheel. The switchover can be quite jarring, especially if you are in a curve when it disengages.



No worries, no arguments perceived nor on my part either.

What Tesla describing on it's website is accurate, but leaving out some of the less functional issues such as reading the traffic signals/signs and hands-free attention monitoring. Maybe the better way to look at this is there is virtually no difference in functionality between Ford's ACC with lane-keeping assist and Bluecruise, but there is a difference in quality. The lane-keeping assist when in Bluecruise is much smoother (less ping-ponging) than ACC with lane-keeping assist. The only functional difference is if you have Bluecruise v1.3 or higher, you can turn on your signal and it will then move into the respective lane without you turning the wheel. Tesla Autopilot requires you to engage the turn signal and steer into the lane. Automation of that particular feature is reserved for EAP and FSD.

Another difference between Bluecruise and all Tesla modes is it will never engage off of the mapped highways and limited access freeways. Tesla ACC, AP, EAP, and FSD will engage and operate anywhere as long as you are on a street (even streets with no lane markings). I have discovered that FSD will also engage in marked parking lots and drive you out to the street and on your way to your entered destination. As long as the navigation shows a blue line showing your path, it will engage and drive you to your destination and if the destination is another parking lot with markings, it will even drive you into that parking lot to the front door of the address you have entered.

Tesla's site is not very up to date on the details of some feature enhancements. The hands-free system was only enabled about a year ago, though the cameras have been in the cars for much longer. Tesla seems to test these types of features for a very long time before releasing to the public. AP, EAP, and FSD will all work without hands on the wheel. I'd have to actually test how ACC works as I've never used it in my vehicles, only in a 2016 Model S and it did not require any hands on the wheel. Even though that old model did not have lane-keeping assist, it did have lane departure avoidance which is a predecessor feature. It doesn't try to center you in your lane as a driving assistance feature, but does steer you back into the lane if you get too close to the edge of the lane as a safety feature. This feature still exists today in current model Teslas, but you'll only see it if you are manually steering and drift too close to a lane marker. You could engage ACC and just let go of the steering wheel and it will happily ping-pong you down the road while screaming at you each correction. I certainly wouldn't attempt a curve in that mode of operation though.

I love my Lightning, so I'm no hater nor am I a Tesla fan-boi. This is simply my knowledge and experience on the differences between the two ecosystems. In a nutshell, Ford's driver assistance features are roughly where Tesla was with their systems in 2016. Ford started 5 years later in 2021 with it's very first rollout of Bluecruise. The difference is in the last 4 years, Bluecruise has advanced at a glacial place compared to what Tesla did between 2016 and 2020. This gap in functionality and reliability is not closing, it is in fact widening.

I took a 2025 Cybertruck on a demo drive today while I was having some maintenance done on my 2021 Model Y Performance. I drove it for about 2 hours and the difference between the FSD functionality in 4 years was mind blowing. My 2021 has v3 hardware and v12 FSD software. The Cybertruck has v4 hardware and v13 software. The difference is night and day in how smooth it operates and anticipates changing driving conditions. My conclusion is that the Cybertruck is a "show" truck and the Lightning is a "real" truck. I would pay $10k cash plus subscription if they could put the Tesla FSD system (hardware and software) in the Lightning. That would be nirvana.

I came back from the demo drive when they pinged me that my vehicle was ready. When I walked back in to hand them the keycard, I asked what it would look like to trade my 2021 Model Y Performance in on a 2025 Cybertruck. Showing me the numbers dampened my enthusiasm a bit, but I did ask how many people did just what I did. She said about 1 in 4. If they had a refresh Model Y available for demo, I may very well have a 2025 on order right now.

I now understand why Tesla service centers have demo vehicles and encourage those who are waiting on service to drive around instead of watching daytime TV while sipping crappy coffee in their lounge.

I encourage you to contact your closest Tesla showroom or service center and ask if you can take one on a 1+ hour demo (vs test) drive or even overnight. Generally if you want to do it mid-week they are happy to accommodate a long demo and will do overnights if they believe you are serious. You really need some time to understand the controls and really put it through it's paces to understand the value.

You bring up an interesting point. I think we can probably agree Tesla is above the rest when it comes to self driving tech.

At one point Apple was going to make their own car AND have other brands using Apple car play

We now see ford/ other brands using Tesla supercharging network even when they still make cars.

I am starting to think it wouldn’t be out of the mind of possibility other brands use Tesla self driving software and customers buy a ford truck then buy the Tesla subscription.

At this point Tesla could care less about the vehicle and all the money is in now they actually have become an energy and tech company

Think roush or Saleen / king ranch licensing. A f150 with Tesla tech would be quite amazing.

 

[Grease Lightning]

stopping at lights, navigating streets, etc, like FSD does.

Equally I won’t pay for FSD since it doesn’t always stop (bad experience on an off ramp at full speed), and in my experience I suffered a lot of random stops at flashing yellow lights, plus some very random lane changes that were not needed and or to close a call to the adjacent car.

I will stick with Autopilot for sure.

 

[Freemarket]

Equally I won’t pay for FSD since it doesn’t always stop (bad experience on an off ramp at full speed), and in my experience I suffered a lot of random stops at flashing yellow lights, plus some very random lane changes that were not needed and or to close a call to the adjacent car.

I will stick with Autopilot for sure.

Latest FSD updates are absolutely proof that we’ve arrived in the promise land. Early adopters know how good it is now. Even my wife’s 2020 Model X is insanely great on FSD.

 

[Brons2]

All conditions at all times as long as you have a Tesla with an interior camera. (Note that in certain very dark conditions, the camera may not be able to see just as the sun at certain angles can blind the BC cameras). This is Model 3s, Model Ys, CyberTruck, and refreshed versions of Model S and X. Older, pre-refresh Teslas do require hands on the wheel for attention monitoring.



That is not actually Bluecruise, that is ACC with lane-keeping assist that is included at no subscription cost in Ford vehicles. Bluecruise only works on mapped highways and limited access freeways. I live in Denver-Metro and not even all of I-25 is enabled for Bluecruise through the core of the city. When driving on BC, when I hit one of those stretches, it automatically drops back to ACC with lane-keeping and starts signaling that you must put your hands on the wheel. The switchover can be quite jarring, especially if you are in a curve when it disengages.



No worries, no arguments perceived nor on my part either.

What Tesla describing on it's website is accurate, but leaving out some of the less functional issues such as reading the traffic signals/signs and hands-free attention monitoring. Maybe the better way to look at this is there is virtually no difference in functionality between Ford's ACC with lane-keeping assist and Bluecruise, but there is a difference in quality. The lane-keeping assist when in Bluecruise is much smoother (less ping-ponging) than ACC with lane-keeping assist. The only functional difference is if you have Bluecruise v1.3 or higher, you can turn on your signal and it will then move into the respective lane without you turning the wheel. Tesla Autopilot requires you to engage the turn signal and steer into the lane. Automation of that particular feature is reserved for EAP and FSD.

Another difference between Bluecruise and all Tesla modes is it will never engage off of the mapped highways and limited access freeways. Tesla ACC, AP, EAP, and FSD will engage and operate anywhere as long as you are on a street (even streets with no lane markings). I have discovered that FSD will also engage in marked parking lots and drive you out to the street and on your way to your entered destination. As long as the navigation shows a blue line showing your path, it will engage and drive you to your destination and if the destination is another parking lot with markings, it will even drive you into that parking lot to the front door of the address you have entered.

Tesla's site is not very up to date on the details of some feature enhancements. The hands-free system was only enabled about a year ago, though the cameras have been in the cars for much longer. Tesla seems to test these types of features for a very long time before releasing to the public. AP, EAP, and FSD will all work without hands on the wheel. I'd have to actually test how ACC works as I've never used it in my vehicles, only in a 2016 Model S and it did not require any hands on the wheel. Even though that old model did not have lane-keeping assist, it did have lane departure avoidance which is a predecessor feature. It doesn't try to center you in your lane as a driving assistance feature, but does steer you back into the lane if you get too close to the edge of the lane as a safety feature. This feature still exists today in current model Teslas, but you'll only see it if you are manually steering and drift too close to a lane marker. You could engage ACC and just let go of the steering wheel and it will happily ping-pong you down the road while screaming at you each correction. I certainly wouldn't attempt a curve in that mode of operation though.

I love my Lightning, so I'm no hater nor am I a Tesla fan-boi. This is simply my knowledge and experience on the differences between the two ecosystems. In a nutshell, Ford's driver assistance features are roughly where Tesla was with their systems in 2016. Ford started 5 years later in 2021 with it's very first rollout of Bluecruise. The difference is in the last 4 years, Bluecruise has advanced at a glacial place compared to what Tesla did between 2016 and 2020. This gap in functionality and reliability is not closing, it is in fact widening.

I took a 2025 Cybertruck on a demo drive today while I was having some maintenance done on my 2021 Model Y Performance. I drove it for about 2 hours and the difference between the FSD functionality in 4 years was mind blowing. My 2021 has v3 hardware and v12 FSD software. The Cybertruck has v4 hardware and v13 software. The difference is night and day in how smooth it operates and anticipates changing driving conditions. My conclusion is that the Cybertruck is a "show" truck and the Lightning is a "real" truck. I would pay $10k cash plus subscription if they could put the Tesla FSD system (hardware and software) in the Lightning. That would be nirvana.

I came back from the demo drive when they pinged me that my vehicle was ready. When I walked back in to hand them the keycard, I asked what it would look like to trade my 2021 Model Y Performance in on a 2025 Cybertruck. Showing me the numbers dampened my enthusiasm a bit, but I did ask how many people did just what I did. She said about 1 in 4. If they had a refresh Model Y available for demo, I may very well have a 2025 on order right now.

I now understand why Tesla service centers have demo vehicles and encourage those who are waiting on service to drive around instead of watching daytime TV while sipping crappy coffee in their lounge.

I encourage you to contact your closest Tesla showroom or service center and ask if you can take one on a 1+ hour demo (vs test) drive or even overnight. Generally if you want to do it mid-week they are happy to accommodate a long demo and will do overnights if they believe you are serious. You really need some time to understand the controls and really put it through it's paces to understand the value.

I have driven a Cybertruck at Circuit of the Americas during an EV show. I definitely liked it more from the driving experience than I thought I would. But I'm still having a hard time getting past the odd exterior looks. It definitely pulls harder than the Lightning, although there are limited circumstances that you could ever use the full power of either. The 4 wheel steering and drive by wire are cool. It can definitely park like a boss, it was very easy to squeeze it into tight spots. Ideal for someone who lives in NYC or Sao Paulo. I liked the yoke.

We all know FSD is better than pretty much everything else. I didn't ask to test it, not interested in doing so. I did not like using FSD in a model Y that I test drove because unless I gave it turn signal way ahead of time, it would actually try to change lanes into the less occupied one even if I was planning to turn the other direction out of the other lane.

Then there's the cost of the Cybertruck. I am leasing my XLT Lightning for $299.96/mo. It was literally cheaper than buying a Honda Civic, for an awesome truck. I don't know how far Tesla has gone down on the CT now but it's not enough for me. Maybe when they get back to that $39,999 single motor version that Elon stated at launch, I might be interested.

I could have leased a Y for $350 a month around the same time I got my Lightning but why would any self respecting truck guy do that? The difference in efficiency at my home energy rates is not enough to be material to me.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Latest FSD updates are absolutely proof that we’ve arrived in the promise land. Early adopters know how good it is now. Even my wife’s 2020 Model X is insanely great on FSD.

I hope so and I hope Tesla give out a 90 day trial once they have it out of Beta. I have a MY2020 M3 so I am also curious if what Elon said will be true and they will be upgrading us to HW4 or 5

 

[Freemarket]

I hope so and I hope Tesla give out a 90 day trial once they have it out of Beta. I have a MY2020 M3 so I am also curious if what Elon said will be true and they will be upgrading us to HW4 or 5

Worth trying the monthly trial at least since you have the option. I’m fine with the hardware as it came with. Hard to think it could get much better. The 2020 is as good as my 2024 AWD CT w FSD.

 

[Oafy44]

I have driven a Cybertruck at Circuit of the Americas during an EV show. I definitely liked it more from the driving experience than I thought I would. But I'm still having a hard time getting past the odd exterior looks. It definitely pulls harder than the Lightning, although there are limited circumstances that you could ever use the full power of either. The 4 wheel steering and drive by wire are cool. It can definitely park like a boss, it was very easy to squeeze it into tight spots. Ideal for someone who lives in NYC or Sao Paulo. I liked the yoke.

We all know FSD is better than pretty much everything else. I didn't ask to test it, not interested in doing so. I did not like using FSD in a model Y that I test drove because unless I gave it turn signal way ahead of time, it would actually try to change lanes into the less occupied one even if I was planning to turn the other direction out of the other lane.

Then there's the cost of the Cybertruck. I am leasing my XLT Lightning for $299.96/mo. It was literally cheaper than buying a Honda Civic, for an awesome truck. I don't know how far Tesla has gone down on the CT now but it's not enough for me. Maybe when they get back to that $39,999 single motor version that Elon stated at launch, I might be interested.

I could have leased a Y for $350 a month around the same time I got my Lightning but why would any self respecting truck guy do that? The difference in efficiency at my home energy rates is not enough to be material to me.

Agree
When doing the math it makes little sense (unless you don’t care and just wanted the cyber truck which I can respect) to go from a lighting to a cyber truck. But I would guess in the next two years or so there will be offers for 0% or leasing promotions- not to mention used ones.

Really would like to see the $16000 range extender as well- but given that GM has figured out 450 mile range without an extender I’m sure Tesla next gen truck will accomplish that. What would be interesting if you could put the range extender on the next gen and get 600 miles per charge.

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