SR/ER number of pouches, cells, battery modules, starting with ChatGPT

[TaxmanHog]

What does 5p8s mean for smaller module #9?

5 cells in parallel, then strung in series by 8 units, is how I read it, but I'm not certain about that or how it computes to the values I assumed from diagnostic read out.

Cell voltage of ~4.035 v seen in the graphics above, times 96 cells in series comes to around 387.36 volts, we refer to our packs as being 400 volt packs, but if there are actually 5 parallels, then it means there are 480 pouches in total. Or could it be the 5p (parallel) are within the one pouch, nested together then vacuum sealed ?

I've probably got this wrong, looking for clarification from Mickey.

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[TaxmanHog]

End result of whatever the architecture, there was an assembly error with a substantial number of components, Ford & SK identified the problem, corrected the manufacturing process and targeted the suspected parts to a series of Lightnings manufactured and sold.

The defective parts have reared their ugly heads over time, the worst condition units failing early and more marginal units coming along in dribs & drabs up to now.

 

[GoodSam]

Cell voltage of ~4.035 v seen in the graphics above, times 96 cells in series comes to around 387.36 volts, we refer to our packs as being 400 volt packs, but if there are actually 5 parallels, then it means there are 480 pouches in total. Or could it be the 5p (parallel) are within the one pouch, nested together then vacuum sealed ?
I've probably got this wrong, looking for clarification from Mickey.

Yeah, then only 63 cells for the SR battery would make for a lower Voltage, say 250, which does not make sense. I am surprised that no one has figured these modules and their cells out for an accessible clear explanation for layfolk like me. ChatGPT is not scraping the internet thoroughly enough!

 

[bmwhitetx]

Strange that module #9 is smaller instead of matching, causing a different line of manufacturing to be needed, meaning extra costs;

Munro explains module 9 is smaller because the space is smaller. Ford wanted that extra 11 kWh so they put in a smaller module.

 

[GoodSam]

this old post by @Ford Senior Master says SR has 9 small modules, while ER has 8 large and 1 small!
battery-pack-removal-guide-how-to-remove-your-f-150-lightning-battery-pack
I am confused where I got the idea that the SR only has 6 modules, 5 large, 1 small.

And this SR owner says the same, with @MickeyAO reply following:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-buy-a-hvb-battery-from-you.17746/post-363503
"Housing is the same. Biggest difference is that the extended range has a 5P configuration versus the standard range 4P. Both have a 96(?)S configuration. "

GoodSam Adding: So it seems SR/ER both have 9 modules. SR 9 small modules, & ER have 8 larger modules and 1 small module. It seems the SR has 4 pouches in parallel per cell, while the ER has 5 pouches in parallel per cell, which would account for the kW-hr storage difference of SR gross 110kWh and ER gross of 141kWh. 110 is 78% of 141 or 4/5ths...4 vs 5 cells in parallel.

If a ER cell has 370Ah, then the SR cell would be only 80% of that, 296Ah. 370Ah * 4V * 96 = 142kWh, close to the gross of 141kWh for an ER; 296Ah * 4V * 96 = 113kWh, close to the 110kWh gross for an SR battery pack.

 

[TaxmanHog]

4p has 80% of the energy capacity vs 5p pack.

All have 96 cell groups of (4p or 5p)

Voltage of a cell grouped by 4p or 5p will be the same ~4.xx volts.

 

[Grumpy2]

I have struggled for hours on this issue in the past, and I am so glad GoodSam started this conversation. I still don't know the answer to his question and that bugs me. I just have a desire to know how this truck works, how the battery functions, as I understood how my old F150 screw functioned.

We have a SR Lightning. I believe both the SR and the ER Lightning has one small single battery module that has a 5P8S configuration and rated to have 11.95 kWh. In the small module with the 8 cells in series would produce about 29 volts average (8 x 3.6v/cell) and perhaps 32 volts maximum. Together the 5 strings produce about 12 kWh maximum, so each string yields 2.4 kWh max., so each of the 8 cells must produce about 300 Wh max?

I believe the larger module has a 5P11S configuration and rated to have 16.44 kWh. If the large module with 11 cells in series would produce about 40 volts average (11 x 3.6v/cell) and perhaps 45 volts maximum. Together the 5 strings could produce 16.44 kWh maximum, so each string yields 3.2 kWh max., and each of the 11 cells might produce about 290-300 Wh max?

For our standard range battery I believe it has 9 modules: one small pack and eight large packs yielding at total of about 98 kWh (useable) and 107 kWh (maximum)?
The extended range battery I believe also has 9 modules; one small pack and eight large packs yielding a total of 131 kWg (useable) and 142 kWh max.

The amperage capacity of all of the modules in our pack is 107.6 kWh, so 107,600 wh/300 wh/cell (nominal) = 359 cells in parallel strings of 8 cells each?

The amperage capacity of the ER battery 142,000wh/300 wh/cell = 473 cells in parallel strings of 8 cells each?

Can this be the layout? Seems impossible to have this different number of cells in the same size 9 modules. What is the Answer?

 

[GoodSam]

We have a SR Lightning. I believe both the SR and the ER Lightning has one small single battery module that has a 5P8S configuration

See my #20 above...

My guess is that SR & ER both have 1 small module of 8s in series cells (but 4p or 5p parallel "pouch cells" to make one measurable "cell"), plus SR & ER both have 8 large modules of 11s in series cells (4p or 5p "pouch cells" in parallel to make one measurable "cell") totalling 96 cells.

So Both SR&ER have 96 "cells" * 4.X Vdc ~400V. So you may be right about the SR having 1 small with 8 cells and 8 large with 11 cells, but with the 4p, 4 pouches in parallel inside.

Or maybe can they stuff 11 cells with 4 pouches each in a small module, if the @Ford Senior Master is correct about the SR having 9 small modules? https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-150-lightning-battery-pack.11859/post-248939

However, Ford has 4 different part numbers for the ER rear/front and SR rear/front modules NL3Z-10D672- E,F,G, or H, although the prices are very close for the ER front & SR rear/front modules (about $4000) and the ER rear module is about $4500. https://www.oemfordpartsdirect.com/search?search_str=NL3Z-10D672

SR's have a higher payload rating for the same equipment which should be due to the fewer cell pouches or smaller module container sizes?

Need to see a SR battery pack module setup!
March 6, 2025 UPDATE *** see #27 below that most likely blows away my statement the the SR has 96 modules like the ER...probably only 72 based on the Ford Tech images in SR 24S11.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Need to see a SR battery pack module setup!

yup

 

[MickeyAO]

xS increased voltage xP increases capacity. A smaller module, as long as it has the same P configuration is not a problem, as it is increasing the voltage.

 

[GoodSam]

Back in August 2022, @Ford Senior Master stated the SR had 9 * 40 cell modules and the ER had 1 * 40 cell and 8 * 56 cell modules.
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-150-lightning-battery-pack.11859/post-248939

I wonder if this is still correct? for an SR, I would think the pouches would cause modules to contain multiples of 4 (like 32, 36, 40, 44), and for an ER, a module would have multiples of 5 (like 40, 45, 50, 55).

 

[GoodSam]

Back in August 2022, @Ford Senior Master stated the SR had 9 * 40 cell modules and the ER had 1 * 40 cell and 8 * 56 55 cell modules.
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-150-lightning-battery-pack.11859/post-248939

I wonder if this is still correct? for an SR, I would think the pouches would cause modules to contain multiples of 4 (like 32, 36, 40, 44), and for an ER, a module would have multiples of 5 (like 40, 45, 50, 55).

@TaxmanHog @Grumpy2 @MickeyAO @jmc6020
Finally I found, looking at this Safety Recall 24S11 for some re-torquing of HV bus bars of 200 Lightnings, Figures show different size HV battery modules for the SR vs the ER. This makes me think that @Ford Senior Master is correct on the SR using 9 smaller size Aluminum housings. Since the ER small module sticker shows 11.95kWh, 9 x11.95 is 107.55 kWh, this would match the overall SR battery pack sticker! So this would probably mean both the SR and ER cells are made up of the 5 pouches, but the SR only has 9 x 8 cells = 72, whereas the ER has the 96 cells. 96/72=1.33 ratio that matches the ER/SR battery output ratio of 131/98. Final answer? Using smaller modules would help account for the extra payload capacity of the SR trucks.
I just need someone to show that there are only 72 cells for an Standard Range battery pack to feel good about this as we have seen the 96 cell listing for the Extended Range battery pack.
***UPDATE: see #30 below for the real answer from Ford Senior Master, 90 groups in series of 4 parallel cells for the SR; 96 groups in series of 5 parallel cells for the ER. Then there is the 2025 Flash 5p90s variation!

from a forum member photo of the ER small battery module #9:

Another forum member had this shot of the Standard Range battery pack 107.6 kWh rating.

 

[Ford Senior Master]

And now we have the new Flash with a different capacity.

 

[GoodSam]

And now we have the new Flash with a different capacity

Like the old ER, but dropping the small module? ER 131kWh, new Flash 122kWh usable?
When will Lithium Iron (Ferro) Phosphate [sic?] LFP batteries be introduced for the Lightnings?

 

[Ford Senior Master]

Like the old ER, but dropping the small module? ER 131kWh, new Flash 122kWh usable?
When will Lithium Iron (Ferro) Phosphate [sic?] LFP batteries be introduced for the Lightnings?

New configuration battery for the mid-range. Each cell is still 3.7 volts. I was expecting LFP for 2025. Maybe we will get it mid year.

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