Lithium EV vs Up coming Solid State EV

[shutterbug]

Yes, "200 miles of real world range is a good compromise" is one I agree with, but to get 200 miles of real world range on a car that's only 3-4 years old, you may need 300 miles of EPA advertised range to get there unless you're always driving in ideal unloaded conditions on flat land.

On my Mustang Mach-E the EPA range is 270 mile. So far I routinely am getting 290-310 mile range. Others have reported better results. This includes last week when the temperatures were hotter than hell. I realize it's still brand new, but before I sold it, my 6 year old C-Max PHEV was routinely getting about 22-25 mile range on a battery that was rated at 19.

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[TN F-150]

That’s great real life info Shutterbug!!!
The only thing that would make it better would be some info on your typical driving profile (city/highway miles, jack rabbit starts, passenger loads, etc.)
In fact, it’s probably worthy of another thread.
Ford has the ability to gather this kind of info with their telematics. But they don’t share that with their consumers. And that’s the kind of stuff that influences buying decisions…

 

[ChasingCoral]

Over at Mustang Mac-E forum, there are plenty of people commenting that they don't bother plugging their car every night, since they barely scratch their range, and that includes those with AWD and standard battery (nominal range 210 miles). I have a coworker with an elderly Model S, who plugs in 2 times a week. There exceptions of course, but most people don't need 300, 400, 500 miles of range. That extra range comes at a cost. I happen to think that 200 miles of real world range is a good compromise. It may be a bit more, but in either case, range anxiety is misplaced.

I plug in my Mach E a couple of times a week.

On my Mustang Mach-E the EPA range is 270 mile. So far I routinely am getting 290-310 mile range. Others have reported better results. This includes last week when the temperatures were hotter than hell. I realize it's still brand new, but before I sold it, my 6 year old C-Max PHEV was routinely getting about 22-25 mile range on a battery that was rated at 19.

I'm getting about the same range on my Mach E as you are.

 

[shutterbug]

That’s great real life info Shutterbug!!!
The only thing that would make it better would be some info on your typical driving profile (city/highway miles, jack rabbit starts, passenger loads, etc.)
In fact, it’s probably worthy of another thread.
Ford has the ability to gather this kind of info with their telematics. But they don’t share that with their consumers. And that’s the kind of stuff that influences buying decisions…

Well I mostly drive alone, but weigh enough to count for 2. Most of my driving is on surface streets, but this is Phoenix, where we drive 60 in 45 zone. With Mustang, I have not noticed much of a difference driving on freeways at 70-80. Not going to lie, I drive like an old lady, but in the mustang, it's easy to drive faster than intending. On my first day after picking it up, without realizing what I did, I was driving 85 in a residential 35 zone.

Here's the thing. I don't see myself ever driving more than 80-100 miles in a day. So 200 mile range will cover all of those things that reduce the range: climate, terrain, driving style, load. I have no towing plans, but right now I think that's a big unknown. Not because of the extra weight but because of wind resistance. About 6 years ago ran into a guy who drove a Model S from Vancouver to Phoenix with a bicycle on top. He said that it was really killing his range and he finally moved the bicycle into he trunk, and saw a huge improvement in range.

 

[shutterbug]

I'm getting about the same range on my Mach E as you are.

This goes to show that terrain doesn't have a great impact on range unless you only go uphill and never come back

 

[bautistasamuel844]

A solid-state battery has higher energy density than a Li-ion battery that uses liquid electrolyte solution. Unsurprisingly lithium-ion is the most common type of batteries and at present popular. And hydrogen fuel cell, a catalyst at the anode separates hydrogen molecules into protons and electrons, which take different paths to the cathode. You can find here more details on Lithium vs Hydrogen vs Solid State Battery for upcoming era of EV.

 

[Northern Goat]

There is a huge list of advantages from a Solid State Battery (SSB) pack over the older Lithium packs. I reserved a Lighting but a lot of information I have been studying and my findings suggesting the SSBs may not be as far off as many have thought.

Next year should yield some good updates. Ford is investing heavy into the new battery tech as well. The industry as a whole is seeking this tech for the new wave for future EVs.

https://fordauthority.com/2021/06/f...er-solid-power-mulls-going-public-via-merger/

For this reason I am not going to be jumping into the lighting till the SSB system has arrived, I've been saying 2024-2025 is a real possibility and now I'm thinking more of a probability.

If you buy a lithium version EV and the SSBs come out the next year, you will take a big hit on the value of your newly purchased vehicle. Plus an EV with the SSB system will more than likely have twice range, much longer battery pack life, more power, charge twice as fast, no fire hazard, cost less and weigh a lot less.

Just saying, check things out well before you jump in, one year could be a huge difference.

That is exactly why I plan on leasing.

 

[MickeyAO]

How many 'solid-state' cells have moved from the basic research stage to the advanced research stage? I can name two since one is in my lab now, and another is in another lab I know about. As with all solid-state that I know about, the most advanced are sitting at a cycle life of around 50 cycles. They still have work to do (I won't tell you why they last so few cycles, but if you are really following them, you know). When the first solid-state produces a 20 Ah cell, I'll start thinking they are about to turn the corner. Do not expect them next year, or the next year, or even the year after that. Four years out? Maybe if they solve one very important problem, but when they do, watch out!

As for me? I do plan on the shortest lease I can get because I tend to trade in luxury trucks every three years or less and I think the EV technology is going to explode in the next couple of years (not necessarily the battery life or range but the toys inside).

 

[sotek2345]

How many 'solid-state' cells have moved from the basic research stage to the advanced research stage? I can name two since one is in my lab now, and another is in another lab I know about. As with all solid-state that I know about, the most advanced are sitting at a cycle life of around 50 cycles. They still have work to do (I won't tell you why they last so few cycles, but if you are really following them, you know). When the first solid-state produces a 20 Ah cell, I'll start thinking they are about to turn the corner. Do not expect them next year, or the next year, or even the year after that. Four years out? Maybe if they solve one very important problem, but when they do, watch out!

As for me? I do plan on the shortest lease I can get because I tend to trade in luxury trucks every three years or less and I think the EV technology is going to explode in the next couple of years (not necessarily the battery life or range but the toys inside).

I tend to go through cars fast in general (bad case of the "ooh shiny" syndrome), so I am planning to do the same. Either a 3/4 year lease or a balloon payment loan (Ford options or similar) if it is still offered.

 

[MickeyAO]

I tend to go through cars fast in general (bad case of the "ooh shiny" syndrome), so I am planning to do the same. Either a 3/4 year lease or a balloon payment loan (Ford options or similar) if it is still offered.

I traded in my Limited after 1100 miles and <18 months because the GMC commercials on the tailgate got me into the dealership and all the toys on the inside made me drive it off the lot! After doing basically the same thing on the last 4 trucks (GMC Hybrid, Ford Platnimum, GMC Denali Sierra, F150 Limited, and now another GMC Denali Sierra) I decided it might be time to look at a lease instead of buying.

 

[vandy1981]

my 6 year old C-Max PHEV was routinely getting about 22-25 mile range on a battery that was rated at 19.

That's impressive--I was lucky to get 14 miles out of my c-max in warm weather. I must have a lead foot.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

I traded in my Limited after 1100 miles and <18 months because the GMC commercials on the tailgate got me into the dealership and all the toys on the inside made me drive it off the lot! After doing basically the same thing on the last 4 trucks (GMC Hybrid, Ford Platnimum, GMC Denali Sierra, F150 Limited, and now another GMC Denali Sierra) I decided it might be time to look at a lease instead of buying.

I normally don’t lease but this one will definitely be a lease. I’ve never seen automotive technology advance so fast.

 

[currybob]

Looks like my thought process on SSBs is not off much at all if this comes as predicted.

https://fordauthority.com/2021/09/f...-will-beef-up-production-to-test-new-battery/

 

[MickeyAO]

Looks like my thought process on SSBs is not off much at all if this comes as predicted.

https://fordauthority.com/2021/09/f...-will-beef-up-production-to-test-new-battery/

Let me be very clear here...the largest SSB cell that has been delivered for independent testing (including to my testing house) is a 2 Ah cell. Are SSBs on the horizon with 100 Ah cells? ABSOLUTELY! But they are still several years off and will not surprise everyone with a sudden game-changer that will obsolete all other cells within the next 5 years. Yes, I am familiar with all the companies listed in the article.

 

[ShirBlackspots]

QuantumScape so far (of news that they've released so far) is a 4 layer ceramic lithium SSB that they've tested to about 800 cycles.

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