Charging prices and why

[BennyTheBeaver]

actually, using the above math, going from 10% to 80% for the extended battery at $.31/kwh would be $33.64 (since you would be adding 70% of the total, which would be 108.5kwh)

Poster that asked the original question said full charge which is why I calculated it going from 10%-100%. They were interested in cost, not time.

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[wingfiry]

Poster that asked the original question said full charge which is why I calculated it going from 10%-100%. They were interested in cost, not time.

ah.. gotcha.

 

[Blainestang]

actually, using the above math, going from 10% to 80% for the extended battery at $.31/kwh would be $33.64 (since you would be adding 70% of the total, which would be 108.5kwh)

Correct, and to clarify further, that's also only charging up to ~240 rated miles because of stopping at 80%.

But that's by far the most time-efficient way to travel. Charging past 80%, if the charge profile looks anything like the Mach E, is a waste of time. It's best to charge less and purposely arrive with the lowest possible battery level.

 

[Blainestang]

Poster that asked the original question said full charge which is why I calculated it going from 10%-100%. They were interested in cost, not time.

He did ask for cost and time, originally:

How much will it cost me to "fill up" my F-150 Lightning - in both dollars and time (fast charge and slow charge times, please).

So, your answer was correct for cost.

And then I added more info on time... and since we don't know much about the 80-100% time, that's hard to estimate. It's also generally a bad idea time-wise unless absolutely necessary.

 

[euchre_u]

Let me further clarify my original question - I meant the question to capture the cost (in dollars and time) for using the Lightning on OTR trips - NOT so much the daily drive from/to a home where one could reasonably expect to have a home charging station.

In Texas almost every power provider has a plan with "Free Nights and Free Weekends" (albeit they charge out the wazoo from 0601 - 1959 - 6am to 8 pm for $/KwH), so home charging from my perspective would essentially be "free" - 10 hours on a Ford 80A charger . . .

I was trying to get at a comparison of "filling up" a gas / diesel F-150 to the Lightning version - and what the impact would be to both the wallet and the watch . . . .

 

[Blainestang]

Let me further clarify my original question - I meant the question to capture the cost (in dollars and time) for using the Lightning on OTR trips - NOT so much the daily drive from/to a home where one could reasonably expect to have a home charging station.

In Texas almost every power provider has a plan with "Free Nights and Free Weekends" (albeit they charge out the wazoo from 0601 - 1959 - 6am to 8 pm for $/KwH), so home charging from my perspective would essentially be "free" - 10 hours on a Ford 80A charger . . .

I was trying to get at a comparison of "filling up" a gas / diesel F-150 to the Lightning version - and what the impact would be to both the wallet and the watch . . . .

Yeah, so in that case, you're going to be fully charged when you leave your home, right?

Then, you'll drive down to ~10% battery, about 270 miles, then charge for 41 minutes to get back to 80%. That will cost you $35. (160kWh * 70% * $0.31/kWh)

Then you'll do that over and over every 210 miles (80%->10%) and pay $35 each time and charge for ~41 mins.

Of course, this assumes there are chargers at perfect intervals.

Also, as noted, because of the charge profile, it's probably a little faster to charge to a lower percentage, say 60%, and then drive 150 miles between stops so that more of your charging occurs when the truck is charging at ~100kW rather than when it drops down to 70kW.

 

[wingfiry]

Yeah, so in that case, you're going to be fully charged when you leave your home, right?

Then, you'll drive down to ~10% battery, about 270 miles, then charge for 41 minutes to get back to 80%. That will cost you $35. (160kWh * 70% * $0.31/kWh)

Then you'll do that over and over every 210 miles (80%->10%) and pay $35 each time and charge for ~41 mins.

Of course, this assumes there are chargers at perfect intervals.

Also, as noted, because of the charge profile, it's probably a little faster to charge to a lower percentage, say 60%, and then drive 150 miles between stops so that more of your charging occurs when the truck is charging at ~100kW rather than when it drops down to 70kW.

In theory, the charge curve should be different with the Extended range.. in that configuration, there are two batteries, each with their own charger vs a single charger with the standard range. Of course all of this is just speculation until they actually build them and release the info on the production models.;-)

 

[sotek2345]

Yeah, so in that case, you're going to be fully charged when you leave your home, right?

Then, you'll drive down to ~10% battery, about 270 miles, then charge for 41 minutes to get back to 80%. That will cost you $35. (160kWh * 70% * $0.31/kWh)

Then you'll do that over and over every 210 miles (80%->10%) and pay $35 each time and charge for ~41 mins.

Of course, this assumes there are chargers at perfect intervals.

Also, as noted, because of the charge profile, it's probably a little faster to charge to a lower percentage, say 60%, and then drive 150 miles between stops so that more of your charging occurs when the truck is charging at ~100kW rather than when it drops down to 70kW.

Great breakdown - I did a similar type calculation when considering the Lightning. You also have to consider that you usually stop for a meal and bathroom breaks on a road trip and those are great charging opportunities. I look at some usual trips we take as well as upcoming planned vacations and found the following adjusting for those items.

- effectively no time added on a ~400mile trip (we usually stop for a meal on this trip anyways and only 1 charge needed).

- ~2.5 hours added to a ~1000 mile trip, assuming you drive straight through. If you stop for a night on the way, this is less because you can charge at the hotel.

 

[Blainestang]

In theory, the charge curve should be different with the Extended range.. in that configuration, there are two batteries, each with their own charger vs a single charger with the standard range. Of course all of this is just speculation until they actually build them and release the info on the production models.;-)

Yeah, there's really a lot we don't know. I suspect even the things we "do know" can change.

When interviewed, one of the Ford execs said something like: "Notice the PLUS at the end of 150kW+".

So, I would expect the Lightning to charge at higher than 150kW, but even if it doesn't, I would expect the 150kW level to last substantially longer than it does on the Mach E (and that it gets extended on the Mach E via update by then, too).

 

[Blainestang]

Great breakdown - I did a similar type calculation when considering the Lightning. You also have to consider that you usually stop for a meal and bathroom breaks on a road trip and those are great charging opportunities. I look at some usual trips we take as well as upcoming planned vacations and found the following adjusting for those items.

- effectively no time added on a ~400mile trip (we usually stop for a meal on this trip anyways and only 1 charge needed).

- ~2.5 hours added to a ~1000 mile trip, assuming you drive straight through. If you stop for a night on the way, this is less because you can charge at the hotel.

Exactly. If you're stopping to eat anyway, which many will after 270 miles, then the charging doesn't really "add" the full time to your trip (if any)... and you probably would have been stopping for gas around then anyway, too, especially since there's a good chance you're not leaving with a 100% full tank of gas because you don't have a gas station at home.

If you're driving ~400-500 miles per day, an ER Lightning may not add much time at all. That's how it is for Teslas and Mach Es, already.

 

[TRP]

To your point about charging locations while traveling.

I JUST purchased a Mach E from a dealer in Dubuque Iowa this past weekend. I live in Oneida TN. Left the dealer in Iowa and added my home address as destination. Was then routed to a EA DCFS in Bloomington Illinois, from there drove to Champaign Illinois and spent the night with family. Entered home address in the morning and was routed to Indianapolis to another EA DCFS, from there it routed me down to Lexington KY for my last charge at another EA DCFS where I added just enough to get home there.

My point is that you certainly can road trip with this EV and rely on the ford navigation to find charge stations. I did compare the route with ABRP just because I was curious and it was almost exactly like fords suggestion. My only issue was that I guesstimated the amount of kWh needed to get me home on last leg and cut it really short, I made it, but in the future would add more fudge factor just incase.


Edited to add.........each charge stop lasted on average 40min. The last one was only 30min. Time to find a bathroom in the Walmart where all charge stations were located and get something to eat at one stop. So I'd say it did add time to the trip but nothing I'd be concerned with to be honest.

Edited again to add.......total trip was about 675 miles over 2 days

 

[Rich1982]

Yeah, so in that case, you're going to be fully charged when you leave your home, right?

Then, you'll drive down to ~10% battery, about 270 miles, then charge for 41 minutes to get back to 80%. That will cost you $35. (160kWh * 70% * $0.31/kWh)

Then you'll do that over and over every 210 miles (80%->10%) and pay $35 each time and charge for ~41 mins.

Of course, this assumes there are chargers at perfect intervals.

Also, as noted, because of the charge profile, it's probably a little faster to charge to a lower percentage, say 60%, and then drive 150 miles between stops so that more of your charging occurs when the truck is charging at ~100kW rather than when it drops down to 70kW.

hmm - I was thinking one benefit for electric truck would be cost vs gasoline cost - but in your example it would currently be little less cost for gas in my area (not including oil changes etc). Also charging at $0.31/kwh would certainly encourage you to charge at home ($0.08 winter or $0.122 summer)

 

[sotek2345]

hmm - I was thinking one benefit for electric truck would be cost vs gasoline cost - but in your example it would currently be little less cost for gas in my area (not including oil changes etc). Also charging at $0.31/kwh would certainly encourage you to charge at home ($0.08 winter or $0.122 summer)

Yeah - fast charging is roughly the same cost as gas per mile (varies a bit but generally true), the savings come from charging at home where as you note it can be ~60% to ~75% cheaper. For most people this is the vast majority of charging so it works out.

 

[Blainestang]

hmm - I was thinking one benefit for electric truck would be cost vs gasoline cost - but in your example it would currently be little less cost for gas in my area (not including oil changes etc). Also charging at $0.31/kwh would certainly encourage you to charge at home ($0.08 winter or $0.122 summer)

Yeah, Fast Charging is expensive, for sure.

Fortunately, for most people, it's pretty rare. And even when you're on trips, it may be only a part of your costs.

On a 500-mile day, 300 of your miles were at your home rate.

That night, if you charge at a hotel, for instance, all those miles may be free, which is even better!

Lots of variables, but yeah, if you were charging ONLY by Fast Chargers if you didn't have home charging or something, you might not save much (or none!).

 

[astricklin]

hmm - I was thinking one benefit for electric truck would be cost vs gasoline cost - but in your example it would currently be little less cost for gas in my area (not including oil changes etc). Also charging at $0.31/kwh would certainly encourage you to charge at home ($0.08 winter or $0.122 summer)

As has been said....most all of your charging will be at home. How often do you drive more than 250-300 miles in a day? Is this is a weekly occurrence, this probably isn't the vehicle for you at this time. Myself, I might take a long road trip one to two times a year, if that, I usually end up flying if I go anywhere on vacation.

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