?‍? F-150 Lightning Build & Price Configurator Now Live! Post Your Build

[SmoothJ]

I am in the same boat, except I have a 21 XLT 2.7 EB. I am going to start commuting soon and with gas prices not going down it only makes sense to go back to an EV in truck form. Since I am in love with my ICE I expect that the EV version will be 10x's better. I am pretty pissed about the EV Lariat missing features from the ICE Lariat, but the good news is we can probably add to the garbage B&O systems that's coming in the Lariat.

Yes you can, however with this being a lease-like contract... you really don't own it per-say. Yes with Ford Options, its under your name and etc, but still.

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[LightningShow]

Due to inflation, and the cost of lithium now going up due to demand, I doubt things will get cheaper.

Of course they will, that's not even in question. The high cost is due to the early adopter premium that the people at the front of the line are willing to pay (and they know Uncle Sam is chipping in $7500). Plus new manufacturing facilities, having to outsource more components, etc. The trucks aren't $75k because of lithium, they are still selling a Pro truck with the same amount of lithium for $40k. Current cost of a battery per kwh is about $130, that's ~$4500 in cost to go from SR to ER.

To see why this isn't about the battery, look at the base price for equivalent ICE trucks, XL is $37,000, XLT is $40,660, Lariat is $47,405. Only +$3,600 to go to an XLT and +$10,405 to go to a Lariat from an XL. For the Lightning you're paying +$13,000 to upgrade from Pro to XLT and +$28,000 to go from a Pro to a Lariat. That's for the same battery size. People buying higher trim Lightnings are paying for Ford's EV development. Once EV trucks (and EVs in general) become more common the extra premium for higher trim levels will be more in line with the current premium for ICE trucks. I was willing to pay *some* premium to get an EV truck with 300 mile range but not $25,000 over a similarly equipped ICE truck, I guess $17,500 after tax rebate.

Anyway, I reserved a Silverado EV. Maybe they'll do a better job giving options to the mid-range buyer. Or, at least, maybe the standard range battery will be more useable for people in cold climates.

 

[SmoothJ]

Of course they will, that's not even in question. The high cost is due to the early adopter premium that the people at the front of the line are willing to pay (and they know Uncle Sam is chipping in $7500). Plus new manufacturing facilities, having to outsource more components, etc. The trucks aren't $75k because of lithium, they are still selling a Pro truck with the same amount of lithium for $40k. Current cost of a battery per kwh is about $130, that's ~$4500 in cost to go from SR to ER.

To see why this isn't about the battery, look at the base price for equivalent ICE trucks, XL is $37,000, XLT is $40,660, Lariat is $47,405. Only +$3,600 to go to an XLT and +$10,405 to go to a Lariat from an XL. For the Lightning you're paying +$13,000 to upgrade from Pro to XLT and +$28,000 to go from a Pro to a Lariat. That's for the same battery size. People buying higher trim Lightnings are paying for Ford's EV development. Once EV trucks (and EVs in general) become more common the extra premium for higher trim levels will be more in line with the current premium for ICE trucks. I was willing to pay *some* premium to get an EV truck with 300 mile range but not $25,000 over a similarly equipped ICE truck, I guess $17,500 after tax rebate.

Anyway, I reserved a Silverado EV. Maybe they'll do a better job giving options to the mid-range buyer. Or, at least, maybe the standard range battery will be more useable for people in cold climates.

I do agree that the higher prices are paying for everything you mentioned. However I don't believe prices will get better. Not only due to the part and material shortages, but manufacturers seeing that some are still willing to pay that crazy amount. Take a look on the GM side of things with the Hummer EV, and the Silverado EV - you can get one for over $100K. Tesla... the same at over 100K. The average new car price at the moment is around 43K.

 

[SmoothJ]

Pro built as expected with pricing around what I figured.


But XLT extended range... 10k over my expectations.

Really pro is the only worthwhile option for me.

An XLT extended range at 74k is terrible. That's a fully equipped rivian and it has waaaaaaaaay more features. And charges a lot faster.

...but do you trust Rivian in the long term? Yes we have Tesla and they are doing pretty well, but Ford, GM, etc - they have been around for a long time. How long will Rivian be around for, or even Tesla?

 

[LightningShow]

I do agree that the higher prices are paying for everything you mentioned. However I don't believe prices will get better. Not only due to the part and material shortages, but manufacturers seeing that some are still willing to pay that crazy amount. Take a look on the GM side of things with the Hummer EV, and the Silverado EV - you can get one for over $100K. Tesla... the same at over 100K. The average new car price at the moment is around 43K.

In the short term prices certainly aren't going down, more likely that prices will stagnate and inflation will outpace price increases. Also, as new models are released they will get more competitive on price. You have to remember there is currently ZERO competition for a full sized EV truck.

For me, personally, the deal breaker is forcing people to get the $9,500 premium package just to upgrade to the ER battery, I didn't want the premium package to begin with. Speculation was it would only be $7k for the ER upgrade on the XLT and Lariat, that's a whole lot different than $10,000+$9,500. I would probably have sprung for the ER XLT if it was only $3k more than I had been expecting but the $9,500 kills it and it doesn't even include the towing package.

ETA: I do think that Ford consciously made the ER price of entry very high to protect themselves from battery shortages. This pricing will ensure that there will be a more even mix of SR/ER instead of nearly 100% of the trucks being ER. If they made the ER available on the Pro they would have had a crazy amount of ER Pro orders.

 

[SmoothJ]

In the short term prices certainly aren't going down, more likely that prices will stagnate and inflation will outpace price increases. Also, as new models are released they will get more competitive on price. You have to remember there is currently ZERO competition for a full sized EV truck.

For me, personally, the deal breaker is forcing people to get the $9,500 premium package just to upgrade to the ER battery, I didn't want the premium package to begin with. Speculation was it would only be $7k for the ER upgrade on the XLT and Lariat, that's a whole lot different than $10,000+$9,500. I would probably have sprung for the ER XLT if it was only $3k more than I had been expecting but the $9,500 kills it and it doesn't even include the towing package.

The pricing sucks, I agree. However I think Ford did this to simplify manufacturing until things get underway. These crazy prices are all simply due to us early adopters wanting the technology, and as you stated before, we are paying for the infrastructure to do it.

 

[rdr854]

The pricing sucks, I agree. However I think Ford did this to simplify manufacturing until things get underway. These crazy prices are all simply due to us early adopters wanting the technology, and as you stated before, we are paying for the infrastructure to do it.

I priced a comparably equipped Lariat PB FX4 against a Lariat+, and the price difference was about $7K. Taking the $7,500 tax credit into account, the prices were almost identical.

 

[SmoothJ]

I priced a comparably equipped Lariat PB FX4 against a Lariat+, and the price difference was about $7K. Taking the $7,500 tax credit into account, the prices were almost identical.

Depending on a tax credit is never a good idea as it can be gone just as quick.

 

[adoublee]

...but do you trust Rivian in the long term?

No - they have been more focused on virtue signaling than producing their very first product to sell. That realization is what ultimately helped me to decide to pull my early reservation. This goes back to before commercial production was said to begin by end of 2020. It is now 2022, and I think only employees have product. Initial idea was that they would be more "professional" or diligent than Tesla, but I'm hearing quality of initial units is not dialed in yet.

I also do hate the headlight if I am honest with myself, so there is that.

 

[rdr854]

Depending on a tax credit is never a good idea as it can be gone just as quick.

I realize that. Who knows when we will get our vehicles, much less be able to order them.

 

[LightningShow]

I anticipate this is going to be a problem.

Looks like pricing is causing several to reconsider their options. I know I'm one. I think demand for the Pro is going to be higher than expected and Fords manufacturing plan isn't going to align with demand.....my speculation anyway.

After looking through the Build tool, I think it's interesting that they think there's going to be twice as much demand for the stripped down XLT SR as a Pro SR. The base XLT without the 312A package is not a significant upgrade over the Pro for $13k. I suppose this is more stating what they plan to make...and they'll easily sell all of the trucks they make but they are going to have a huge backlog of Pro orders by the end of the year. And maybe that's their plan, push out the high margin product this year then ramp up the low margin stuff next year. It definitely puts the tax credit in jeopardy for a lot of people putting in a Pro order who didn't get their reservation in the first 24hrs.

 

[techguydave]

And maybe that's their plan, push out the high margin product this year then ramp up the low margin stuff next year.

This is where I give Chevy props. There's no misunderstanding about their plan: Fleet and high margin trucks first, everyone else the next year. Simple as that.

 

[vandy1981]

How long will Rivian be around for, or even Tesla?

Amazon owns >20% of Rivian and have made their vans a key component of their delivery infrastructure plans. I think they're going to be just fine for many years to come. I don't really see a scenario where Tesla implodes anytime soon, either.

I have serious doubts about the long-term viability of Lucid, Lordstown, Fisker, and Nikola, but not Rivian or Tesla.

 

[SmoothJ]

I was watching a car show one time, and they were interviewing a car designer: "No one needs a 80K car, however we want to make you want a 80K car".

Getting the PRO truck would be the best bang for the buck considering majority of the development work seemed to have been with the new frame, battery, modules, and programming. The base price for a F150 XL 4x4 is 42,205. So with the PRO model, Ford is possibly loosing money IMHO. Remember, they want more people to buy the truck so its still the best selling truck.

As you go higher in trims you are paying for the loss of the PRO model, and other models before that.

 

[SmoothJ]

Amazon owns >20% of Rivian and have made their vans a key component of their delivery infrastructure plans. I think they're going to be just fine for many years to come. I don't really see a scenario where Tesla implodes anytime soon, either.

I have serious doubts about the long-term viability of Lucid, Lordstown, Fisker, and Nikola, but not Rivian or Tesla.

True, I forgot that. However Rivian, like Tesla, will have issues selling direct to consumers at first. Not only that, you are forgetting parts and availability. Look how long it takes for some autobody shops to fix Tesla vehicles.

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