2024 Lightning

[astricklin]

It is refreshing to see that Ford isn’t simply going to throw more batteries on trucks to try and improve range and focus on efficiency to help hit their targets. A lighter truck that doesn’t spin the electric meter for 20+ hours is certainly welcome. However its going to be a lot of squeezing to get more range out of a 6500 lb brick shaped truck at interstate speeds. I was pretty impressed with the 2.0 miles/kWh I can get, considering an aerodynamically slick 3500 lb Tesla Y only does about 3 miles/kWh at 75 mph.

I personally think Ford is dead wrong about not trying to compete with other brands 400+ mile EVs, and I think they’ll be very popular with retail customers if prices become more reasonable. Especially if people want to use their trucks to travel. Reason being is even the current ER Lightning isn’t even close to being a true 300 highway mile truck. At 2.0 miles/kWh it’s a 260 mile truck at interstate speeds, and if you are working the battery 80-10% at each stop, that’s 182 miles max between charging stops (if you could space them perfect, which of course you can’t). And that’s even before talking about weather conditions and battery aging that could lower that number further.

Run the same numbers with a 500 mile “EPA rated” range truck and you get about 280-290 between stops on the highway (still a comfortable 200 in cold weather) which I think would comfort many more ICE owners who are hesitant to switch.

The elephant in the room is customers who want to tow, and that is going to be where the 500+ rated mile EV market will thrive. Ford can make the Lightning as efficient/light/aerodynamic as possible but those advantages are nullified when you are pulling a boat or travel trailer down the interstate. The 36 gallon tank that people like to spec in the ICE F-150 isn’t so you can drive 700+ miles unloaded without taking a piss break, it’s so you can get 300 towing miles out of your truck with a few gallons of contingency fuel to spare. It’s going to take a truck with 200-300+ kWh to satisfy the demands of this section of the truck market, and probably some battery tech advances along the way as well.

It's going to take advances in battery storage capacity and motor efficiency to bring about these things. Only then will the pricing be anywhere near reasonable to transition from ice for long range towing.

Sponsored

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

In Ford's capital markets presentations today, it was clearly said that Ford's direction is to NOT try to compete with 400+ mi ranges for EVs. They want to provide enough battery for 300 mi at 70 MPH and fast charging to refil that quickly. They also specifically said they will not achieve the 300 miles by throwing batteries at it. The goal is to make EVs as efficient as possible so they can use the smallest battery possible to achieve the goal.

Personally, I like that direction a lot more than throwing a metric crap ton of batteries in a brick of a vehicle to hit big range numbers. Good luck charging that big of a battery quickly. Also, 300 miles on the highway sounds like an excellent target for road tripping. Most people need to stop by then, so bigger numbers are just for bragging rights (assuming the vehicle can charge quickly).

I agree with all of your statements.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

Honestly even 300 miles between stops is pushing it for human (bladder) endurance. That is ~4.5 hours at 70mph. I am usually ready for a stop after around 3.

That said, 300mi highway range in ideal temps, means making my 3 hour / 210 mile leg in winter conditions much more likely. Right now for a common drive I do the first leg is 185 miles and I have less than 40 miles to spare in my Lariat ER in the winter time. I would like to switch to a more snow rated tire, but worry about making that leg with reduced range.

i had snows on all winter and I didn't see a difference in range. BUT i did NOT do a scientific analysis.

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

I'd MUCH rather have 300 miles of range with 15 minute charging stops than 400 miles but 45 minute charging stops. 300 miles will be plenty of range once there are more charging stations and charging is faster.

Heck, it would almost be perfectly fine now if the Lightning could charge at 250 kw...

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any possiblity there can be a reasonable 'retrofit' which would allow for 250 kw? (It's probaby a stupid qustion on my part, but I'd just l ike to know.)

 

[sotek2345]

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any possiblity there can be a reasonable 'retrofit' which would allow for 250 kw? (It's probaby a stupid qustion on my part, but I'd just l ike to know.)

Charging stations can't push that much at ~400V. The wiring / cables are amp limited so 350kW at 800V = 175kW at 400V. So you would need new stations with thicker cables as well as upgrades to the wiring in the truck.

 

[TheWoo]

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any possiblity there can be a reasonable 'retrofit' which would allow for 250 kw? (It's probaby a stupid qustion on my part, but I'd just l ike to know.)

For the reasons stated above it won't happen - however, what Ford can do is push software updates that impact the charging curve and allow the batteries to take their current high level of charge for longer durations if they feel it won't have a significant battery degradation impact. Ford is quite conservative w/ battery health (likely for warranty reasons).

 

[ChrisC]

It is refreshing to see that Ford isn’t simply going to throw more batteries on trucks to try and improve range and focus on efficiency to help hit their targets. A lighter truck that doesn’t spin the electric meter for 20+ hours is certainly welcome. However its going to be a lot of squeezing to get more range out of a 6500 lb brick shaped truck at interstate speeds. I was pretty impressed with the 2.0 miles/kWh I can get, considering an aerodynamically slick 3500 lb Tesla Y only does about 3 miles/kWh at 75 mph.

I personally think Ford is dead wrong about not trying to compete with other brands 400+ mile EVs, and I think they’ll be very popular with retail customers if prices become more reasonable. Especially if people want to use their trucks to travel. Reason being is even the current ER Lightning isn’t even close to being a true 300 highway mile truck. At 2.0 miles/kWh it’s a 260 mile truck at interstate speeds, and if you are working the battery 80-10% at each stop, that’s 182 miles max between charging stops (if you could space them perfect, which of course you can’t). And that’s even before talking about weather conditions and battery aging that could lower that number further.

Run the same numbers with a 500 mile “EPA rated” range truck and you get about 280-290 between stops on the highway (still a comfortable 200 in cold weather) which I think would comfort many more ICE owners who are hesitant to switch.

The elephant in the room is customers who want to tow, and that is going to be where the 500+ rated mile EV market will thrive. Ford can make the Lightning as efficient/light/aerodynamic as possible but those advantages are nullified when you are pulling a boat or travel trailer down the interstate. The 36 gallon tank that people like to spec in the ICE F-150 isn’t so you can drive 700+ miles unloaded without taking a piss break, it’s so you can get 300 towing miles out of your truck with a few gallons of contingency fuel to spare. It’s going to take a truck with 200-300+ kWh to satisfy the demands of this section of the truck market, and probably some battery tech advances along the way as well.

I think everyone is forgetting about the potential wireless charging while driving infrastructure that is being tested for semi trucks along highways. This would extend the battery range and allow for smaller battery size and weight. I have seen reports about it being tested in a few states. Future EVs will probably have wireless charging capability but it seems one company has an adapter for home use on any EV

https://witricity.com/

https://www.in.gov/indot/current-pr...charging-solution-for-highway-infrastructure/

 

[Pioneer74]

I think everyone is forgetting about the potential wireless charging while driving infrastructure that is being tested for semi trucks along highways. This would extend the battery range and allow for smaller battery size and weight. I have seen reports about it being tested in a few states. Future EVs will probably have wireless charging capability but it seems one company has an adapter for home use on any EV

https://witricity.com/

https://www.in.gov/indot/current-pr...charging-solution-for-highway-infrastructure/

I-75 from the Michigan/Ohio line up until I-275, approx 20 miles, has been under reconstruction for 10+ years. It will be completed until 2029.

We'll all be dead and buried if that ever comes to fruition. Which it won't. It will be way too expensive.

 

[ChrisC]

I-75 from the Michigan/Ohio line up until I-275, approx 20 miles, has been under reconstruction for 10+ years. It will be completed until 2029.

We'll all be dead and buried if that ever comes to fruition. Which it won't. It will be way too expensive.

Did you see the private company link I posted above? I think this technology is developing much faster than in the past and will happen sooner than you think Electricity is already along most highways so it would not be difficult to implement.


"WiTricity technology allows urban transit vehicles to be charged while in service and without the need for vandalism-prone wiring and/or charging stations. Think of it as “power snacking”. By charging a bus or a tram on its route wirelessly, it never needs to be taken out of service, reducing TCO. With wireless charging stations embedded under concrete, there is no issue with weather or vandalism. The WiTricity solution is an obvious answer for urban transit, especially as the deployment of electric transit vehicles accelerates."
https://witricity.com/wireless-charging-solutions/smart-cities/

 

[sotek2345]

Did you see the private company link I posted above? I think this technology is developing much faster than in the past and will happen sooner than you think Electricity is already along most highways so it would not be difficult to implement.


"WiTricity technology allows urban transit vehicles to be charged while in service and without the need for vandalism-prone wiring and/or charging stations. Think of it as “power snacking”. By charging a bus or a tram on its route wirelessly, it never needs to be taken out of service, reducing TCO. With wireless charging stations embedded under concrete, there is no issue with weather or vandalism. The WiTricity solution is an obvious answer for urban transit, especially as the deployment of electric transit vehicles accelerates."
https://witricity.com/wireless-charging-solutions/smart-cities/

Wireless charging for EVs is a horrible idea, the efficiency loss is huge! Not only wasted power, but large amounts of waste heat generated as well.

 

[ChrisC]

Wireless charging for EVs is a horrible idea, the efficiency loss is huge! Not only wasted power, but large amounts of waste heat generated as well.

Not to be rude but please read the link I posted about the technology instead of repeating talking points. It really is not helpful and sucks

https://witricity.com/technology/why-magnetic-resonance/

 

[sotek2345]

Not to be rude but please read the link I posted about the technology instead of repeating talking points. It really is not helpful and sucks

https://witricity.com/technology/why-magnetic-resonance/

Yeah, that reads like marketing fluff. No idea how they are violating the laws of physics.

 

[Pioneer74]

Did you see the private company link I posted above? I think this technology is developing much faster than in the past and will happen sooner than you think Electricity is already along most highways so it would not be difficult to implement.


"WiTricity technology allows urban transit vehicles to be charged while in service and without the need for vandalism-prone wiring and/or charging stations. Think of it as “power snacking”. By charging a bus or a tram on its route wirelessly, it never needs to be taken out of service, reducing TCO. With wireless charging stations embedded under concrete, there is no issue with weather or vandalism. The WiTricity solution is an obvious answer for urban transit, especially as the deployment of electric transit vehicles accelerates."
https://witricity.com/wireless-charging-solutions/smart-cities/

I read it. But a private company will not be installing it. A contractor of the DOT will. And they can't rebuild normal roads in an adequate amount of time for a reasonable cost.

 

[JTWIRE]

So should I wait for a 2024 with the hope that there will be some upgrades worth the wait or just go for 2023? IDK

 

[ChrisC]

I read it. But a private company will not be installing it. A contractor of the DOT will. And they can't rebuild normal roads in an adequate amount of time for a reasonable cost.

I guess it depends on what state you are in. Our state roads are constantly paved and repaired so it would be a very fast install. And I am sure if they use the Federal money from the IRA for chargers, it would go even faster. The County roads are a different story

Sponsored