60 Amp install for FCSP at $1,500, or 80 amp at $2,200. Is it worth the extra $ ?

[Pioneer74]

What wire did you use?



I think the NEC (not sure what year) code calls for "readily accessible lockable open." It's up to the inspector what qualifies for readily accessible, but a standard breaker box and a breaker lock may meet that.

My inspector says they want the disconnect in the same room. With my main panel in my basement, even with less than a 25 foot run, I would have to have a separate disconnect.

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[FlasherZ]

The FCSP at this point in time cannot meet its 80 amp claimed capability. So most run it at 64 amps. Otherwise it overheats.

If you need 0-100% charge every night, get the 80 amp and hope it works or Ford fixes the problem and replaces yours. For all normal uses just get the 60 and you'll be fine.

Having said all that, I opted for the 100 amp breaker and 80 amp charger, which I expect to run at 64 amps.

Mine charges at 77-78 amps every day after the firmware fix.

Only reason that it can't do more is that Siemens tends to under-rate its J1772 duty cycle. The mobile connector only charges at 30A, not 32, as well.

 

[FlasherZ]

My inspector says they want the disconnect in the same room. With my main panel in my basement, even with less than a 25 foot run, I would have to have a separate disconnect.

The definition of "accessible" is left open to interpretation, and I've seen inspectors allow for the breaker in the basement to be considered the disconnect, while I've seen inspectors red-tag a disconnect located more than 7 feet up the wall. The AHJ (inspectors) is the only opinion that matters (save for appeals routes), so gotta listen to them.

Mine is at the top of my 9' wall.

And yes, it must be "lockable open" (625.42, IIRC) but that's easy enough with a breaker padlock bracket on a 2-space disconnect box.

 

[Pioneer74]

The AHJ (inspectors) is the only opinion that matters (save for appeals routes), so gotta listen to them.

This is exactly the reason why when I went to pull my permit I talked to the inspector to find out what he wanted to see. I hate doing the same job twice, especially when I'm not being paid to do it.

 

[Pjlightning]

The quote isn't specific enough to be able to tell if there is something else legitimate entering into the equation. Get another quote. How far is the run from your service panel?

I'll never 'need' 80A charging (100A circuit)...unless I get another EV...or the Super Off Peak rate window gets even narrower than the current five hours...or driving needs dramatically increase...or....

I think he said he needed a 70 foot run.

and there’s a cement pad under an addition to the house, between the main house and the garage, so there’s no way to do it other than run it along the side of the house from where the panel is, to the garage, and then it has to go back inside, then up to the rafters, across the garage and back down to get to the side of the garage where the FCSP will be hung in the wall.

He said the wiring for the 80amp version of the quote was significantly thicker and heavier than what he could use for the 60amp, so it would take more effort to do it that way too.

This is all Greek to me, but I definitely get the sense that he’d rather do the easier job, and he thinks it’ll charge the truck just fine.

He also points out that if I sell the house, no one else would be able to use the 80amp unless they had a Ford lightning…..another reason to consider going with the cheaper option that would serve some future Tesla/Ioniq/Polestar owner turn-key for their charging needs rather the 80amp Ford setup.

 

[FlasherZ]

I think you need a second quote.

Whether it's worth it to pay $600 extra for larger conduit, a larger breaker, and thicker wires, I can't understand the $170 upcharge for simply installing larger conduit, a larger breaker, and thicker wires...it's literally the same labor.

Not quite sure it's $170, but there is a labor difference. Pulling #3 vs. #4 is more difficult and larger conduit and sweeps don't always fit where you need them.

100 ft run of #3 vs. #4 is about $150 more in wire, $50 more in conduit & fittings, $20 more for breaker. For 100 ft, the difference in labor might be $50ish. Going to 80A/100A charging also requires an accessible disconnect (thx Pioneer) which means adding $80-100. Roughly speaking, I'd cost the upgrade at $400-500.

EDIT: Added some $$ because as Pioneer noted, EVSE installed at 60A doesn't require an accessible disconnect - anything higher does.

 

[FlasherZ]

He also points out that if I sell the house, no one else would be able to use the 80amp unless they had a Ford lightning…..another reason to consider going with the cheaper option that would serve some future Tesla/Ioniq/Polestar owner turn-key for their charging needs rather the 80amp Ford setup.

That's being short-sighted. I was using 80A charging in 2012 already, and on two different cars simultaneously in 2016. I'd suggest that charging rates are only going to get faster, not slower.

Personally, I've built for 2 cars charging @ 80A in my garage and I have another 14-50 that can be used too. But that's because frequently I'd come home, need a quick 50 miles in 30 minutes, and turn around again.

If you are fine with overnight charging, 60A will probably be ok for most people, especially if it is an expensive install because of difficulties you've noted.

 

[cvalue13]

As someone above mentioned but to amplify: seems the big question is if you want to be HIS ready

that said, as more information comes out, it’s not entirely clear that what HIS does or doesn’t require - I suppose there’s a chance that one of the “smaller” HIS systems (eg4kwh) doesn’t need thr 80A wiring, etc.?

I’m going the other direction: installing for 80A (wiring, etc.) but hardware down-rating my charger to 48A charging because (1) I’m not confident my load can handle 80A charging every moment of the day (esp in winter when 2 heat pump HVACs are running), (2) I don’t have daily need for 80A charging, and (3) I can always hardware update to 80A charging if I need/decide in the future to upgrade panel, go HIS, etc.

 

[Maquis]

As someone above mentioned but to amplify: seems the big question is if you want to be HIS ready

that said, as more information comes out, it’s not entirely clear that what HIS does or doesn’t require - I suppose there’s a chance that one of the “smaller” HIS systems (eg4kwh) doesn’t need thr 80A wiring, etc.?

I’m going the other direction: installing for 80A (wiring, etc.) but hardware down-rating my charger to 48A charging because (1) I’m not confident my load can handle 80A charging every moment of the day (esp in winter when 2 heat pump HVACs are running), (2) I don’t have daily need for 80A charging, and (3) I can always hardware update to 80A charging if I need/decide in the future to upgrade panel, go HIS, etc.

The EVSE charging circuitry is unrelated to using the HIS. You could wire the FCSP to charge at only 24A and still enable home backup power with the HIS. The HIS needs separate DC conductors between the FCSP and the HIS.

It’s not at all unclear - links to the HIS installation specs have been shared on here several times.

 

[Roy2001]

Why 60A costs $1500? Because distance? That’s expensive to me.

 

[vagabond7846]

The FCSP at this point in time cannot meet its 80 amp claimed capability. So most run it at 64 amps. Otherwise it overheats.

If you need 0-100% charge every night, get the 80 amp and hope it works or Ford fixes the problem and replaces yours. For all normal uses just get the 60 and you'll be fine.

Having said all that, I opted for the 100 amp breaker and 80 amp charger, which I expect to run at 64 amps.

this is not true. Mine charges at high 70 amps continually without heat problems. It is located outside. I measure the current using Sense monitoring on my panel. I have not had it over heat

 

[cvalue13]

The EVSE charging circuitry is unrelated to using the HIS. You could wire the FCSP to charge at only 24A and still enable home backup power with the HIS. The HIS needs separate DC conductors between the FCSP and the HIS.

It’s not at all unclear - links to the HIS installation specs have been shared on here several times.

thanks for the information, especially delivered so kindly! I did, afterall, have a question mark at the end of my sentence

I’m not an electrician, by any stretch, and so even the “explanation” you just provided doesn’t make it “clear” for me - and the “installation specs shared here several times” aren’t any better for me

But I do at least gather the assertion that the FCSP’s wiring for charging is completely seperate and so completely unrelated (functionally and cost-wise) to the FCSP’s wiring for HIS

sounds, then, like OP can wire the FCSP for charging however they like without effecting whatsoever future compatibility or costs of HIS installation

 

[cvalue13]

It’s not at all unclear - links to the HIS installation specs have been shared on here several times.

[PS: while we’re here, can you help explain this notion that there are 6 or more “sizes” of HIS, ranging from 4kWh to 10kWh? Hardware/wiring-wise, is that a single component differentiator, or do different version require multiple areas of up/downgrade of componentry/wiring?]

 

[FlasherZ]

[PS: while we’re here, can you help explain this notion that there are 6 or more “sizes” of HIS, ranging from 4kWh to 10kWh? Hardware/wiring-wise, is that a single component differentiator, or do different version require multiple areas of up/downgrade of componentry/wiring?]

When OFF GRID (meaning power failure), all Delta BDI's can deliver 10 kW to your isolated home's electrical system from the truck's battery.

When ON GRID and operating in "grid-tie" mode with solar PV installs, the Delta BDI's have a range of 4 kW through 10 kW. The default model provided by Sunrun is only able to feed in 4 kW. If you have a larger solar PV install and want to use it to offset your grid usage, you'll need a larger inverter. The rest of the components should remain the same.

From a wiring standpoint, there is very little difference as you'll need to have the 10 kW rated backfeed for off-grid mode to work.

 

[cvalue13]

When ON GRID and operating in "grid-tie" mode with solar PV installs, the Delta BDI's have a range of 4 kW through 10 kW.

awesome and helpful reply

on the text quoted above, could you hand-hold me one step further in what exact functionality we’re describing there?

perhaps at issue here is not only my lack of ability in the topic in general, but also some quirks about Austin’s electrical grid oddities. Namely, they have a meter both in front and behind the PV, so charge for solar PV even if the grid is down - which is why I have no home battery/inverter installed with my PV currently (because from a cost perspective it’s useless, except to the extent of providing a battery in a blackout that I still get charged for)

So I have 21KW of PV, I have a lightning, but am still not certain of what the HIS $ will buy me in terms of capabilities - seemingly this “grid-tie” mode you mention being something I should understand better

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