Anyone know what the idle draws on the circuits are?

[BeeKind]

I don't have a lot of electron knowledge, just enough to get me in trouble. I'm going to make a few statements that I'm looking for you electricians/engineers/smart people to correct if I'm wrong. Then my questions, thanks in advance!

• AC circuits always have current being supplied and when devices turn on they draw off the current being supplied
• The truck always supplies at least some 120v AC current to the in-cabin outlets when the truck is on
• The truck must be on to operate any receptacles/circuits
• When you toggle a circuit on, it puts some current on that circuit
• This doesn't appear to be full current (ie, it's not supplying 2400W to the 20a circuit)
  • They appear to step the current up to draw
  • Observed via BBU connected to circuit kicking on when A/C compressor kicked on
  • Sustained current draw (1500W to 120v) has no problems
• The cabin outlets are not attached to the bed circuits
  • This creates a situation where you can't access the outlets that always have idle current running.
  • IE, if it's raining you can't have extension cords coming from the cabin with open door or window. So you come off the tail and you're always wasting energy in the cabin
• The two tail 120v circuits should be thought of as a kind of sub panel to the 240V 32A circuit.
  

So that brings me to my questions:

• What is the minimum idle current draw if nothing is connected to the truck.
  • Climate off in cabin
  • Screen off in cabin
  • Headlights off
• What is the minimum idle current draw on frunk circuit?
• What is the minimum idle current draw on the tail circuit(s)?
• What are the stepup increments? IE if it calls for 200 watts does it jump to pushing 1000? 500?

The answers to these questions could have a pretty massive impact on how long the truck lasts in a backup situation. Hopefully my understanding and questions aren't stupid.

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[Maquis]

The quiescent load of ProPower is really negligible. The fact that truck must be “running” means that other systems are on and they probably use more battery than untapped
ProPower.

There are no incremental jumps in power usage. You use what you use minus efficiency.

 

[BeeKind]

The quiescent load of ProPower is really negligible. The fact that truck must be “running” means that other systems are on and they probably use more battery than untapped
ProPower.

There are no incremental jumps in power usage. You use what you use minus efficiency.

This is not my observation. I was putting at 300 watt load to it and it was dropping the same as when I had a 15,000 BTU A/C drawing consistently over 1500 watts.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Just because a receptacle is live (voltage applied to it), that does not mean current (amperage) is flowing through it. In fact, unless damaged, no current therefore no power (watts). If you are seeing a power draw, something is wrong and should be examined.

 

[Jim Lewis]

The answers to these questions could have a pretty massive impact on how long the truck lasts in a backup situation

Not sure what you mean about "backup situation." If you mean "Whole Home Backup" provided through the Home Integration System, the truck does not have to be "on," for power transfer to run. In automatic mode, it can be triggered with the truck mostly off and (my ignorance here), just relays thrown to allow high-voltage DC current to run out of the truck HVB through the FCSP DC connectors in the charger head. The telemetry from the truck is still running, and Ford now has a website through which you can administer and monitor backup power transfer without having to turn on the truck and use the SYNC screen to do so. https://energy.ford.com/ (right now at 11:34 PM CDT, this page is "disappearing" as soon as it loads in MS Edge).

As far as how much power is drawn from the LVB when the truck is fully off, I've seen a figure floating around in Car Scanner that the average LVB current draw (when off, I suppose) is 32 mA. But then Car Scanner will tell me as soon as I turn on the truck that my coolant temperature is 15C in a truck that's sat in a 31C garage for several days!

 

[BeeKind]

Guys, I appreciate the feedback but I think most people haven't actually spent much time looking at this.

We're not talking milliamps, we're talking like 300w for 5 hours brought it down like 8%.

I'm also finding I'm not alone having had others echo the observation on both here and Reddit over time.

 

[Jim Lewis]

We're not talking milliamps, we're talking like 300w for 5 hours brought it down like 8%.

You shouldn't use "it" but rather reference the specific source of power you're talking about.

I presume "it" is the 12v battery. The Ac and Pro Power OnBoard get their juice from the HVB, AFAIK.

An inverter (something that converts DC to AC current) can draw power without a load (the no-load mode). An inverter that can handle 2 kW, for example, would typically not draw more than ~10 watts in no-load mode. So, there is no way that you're going to be burning 300 watts by having Pro Power OnBoard receptacles on but not being used. If AC is not on, no significant draw on HVB from that, either. No way that you're going to knock your HVB down any significant amount in 5 hours with the truck on but not drawing power from Pro Power OnBoard or with the compressor(s) off and not heating the battery, either, etc.

If you just have an SR truck, the battery is 98 kWh. 8% of that is ~ 8 kWh. No way 300 watt draw for 5 hours (1.5 kWh) will knock the HVB down 8%.

So, from the above, that's why I presume your "it" statement refers to the 12v battery SOC. I'll worry about answering that later if someone else doesn't provide a better answer first.

 

[BeeKind]

You shouldn't use "it" but rather reference the specific source of power you're talking about.

I presume "it" is the 12v battery. The Ac and Pro Power OnBoard get their juice from the HVB, AFAIK.

An inverter (something that converts DC to AC current) can draw power without a load (the no-load mode). An inverter that can handle 2 kW, for example, would typically not draw more than ~10 watts in no-load mode. So, there is no way that you're going to be burning 300 watts by having Pro Power OnBoard receptacles on but not being used. If AC is not on, no significant draw on HVB from that, either. No way that you're going to knock your HVB down any significant amount in 5 hours with the truck on but not drawing power from Pro Power OnBoard or with the compressor(s) off and not heating the battery, either, etc.

If you just have an SR truck, the battery is 98 kWh. 8% of that is ~ 8 kWh. No way 300 watt draw for 5 hours (1.5 kWh) will knock the HVB down 8%.

So, from the above, that's why I presume your "it" statement refers to the 12v battery SOC. I'll worry about answering that later if someone else doesn't provide a better answer first.

I'm telling you that it's using more power than it should, very noticeable at lower draws. I've had extension cords run for about a week now trying to different configurations. I can tell you overnight AC only in the cab was 4%, I can tell you lots of things. This is all Extended Range, XLT.

There's definitely more power being lost to energizing those circuits than people think and there's also definitely a "step up" effect. Literally as I'm typing this I could hear the A/C compressor kick on and the manual switches to the BBU clicking on at the same time. Clearly to me that's the truck reacting and providing more current on the circuit. It has no problems after the "step-up" providing a continuous ~1500 watt current.

The God's honest truth is I was in an extended backup situation during Beryl and I always could just fast charge close by, but now I want to understand exactly how this is all working. Beryl was small, I work hurricane relief and I expect to use this truck a lot for prolonged periods of power outages, there's going to be situations where the longer I can go without charging the better and if 120v 500w currents aren't taking double what they should that would be... good?

 

[Jim Lewis]

So, if you are referring to a drop in HVB state of charge, you have to remember when the truck is on, it charges the LVB from the HVB. Perhaps for your numbers, you'd arrived at a state where your LVB had a low state of charge and the HVB was charging it with a several amp current. However, if you're like me and had your LVB SOC >70%, the charging current would only be around 1A. I could run my truck for 5 hours with that HVB current draw and not drop it more than about 1.1% SOC for an ER battery with a true capacity of 143 kWh, IIRC (I ran the truck with all accessories off for 13 min with only the dash, SYNC screen, a fan somewhere on and my HBV SOC only dropped 0.05% in those 13 min as measured by Car Scanner. At the start, the HVB current was something like 1.1A, the LVB SOC 75%. At the end, the HVB current had dropped to 0.7A as the LVB SOC had increased to 77%.
I haven't run the numbers but I believe the increase in the LVB SOC accounts for most of the HVB current draw during my 13 min experiment. Although Car Scanner purports to give 4-digit accuracy in the HVB SOC, there is not much accuracy in the LVB SOC % delta (75% to 77%).

 

[BeeKind]

So, if you are referring to a drop in HVB state of charge, you have to remember when the truck is on, it charges the LVB from the HVB. Perhaps for your numbers, you'd arrived at a state where your LVB had a low state of charge and the HVB was charging it with a several amp current. However, if you're like me and had your LVB SOC >70%, the charging current would only be around 1A. I could run my truck for 5 hours with that HVB current draw and not drop it more than about 1.1% SOC for an ER battery with a true capacity of 143 kWh, IIRC (I ran the truck with all accessories off for 13 min with only the dash, SYNC screen, a fan somewhere on and my HBV SOC only dropped 0.05% in those 13 min as measured by Car Scanner. At the start, the HVB current was something like 1.1A, the LVB SOC 75%. At the end, the HVB current had dropped to 0.7A as the LVB SOC had increased to 77%.
I haven't run the numbers but I believe the increase in the LVB SOC accounts for most of the HVB current draw during my 13 min experiment. Although Car Scanner purports to give 4-digit accuracy in the HVB SOC, there is not much accuracy in the LVB SOC % delta (75% to 77%).

I'm going based on the reported SOC on the dash, whether or not that's a reflection of HVB or some kind of delayed charging, I don't know.

I wasn't paying close enough attention, taking notes, writing things down. I'll do so now. Figured I was on to something and people here would just know the draws.

Right now I'm pulling that same 1500 watt draw from the frunk and I only lost 1% in an hour which is expected use, I'm chalking that up to being on the same circuit as the cabin. It's going to take days for me to get more data. I'll put a small draw on the rear tail tomorrow perhaps.

Kinda wish I paid more attention those few times I noticed current draw. My initial, early suspicion is there's a lot more current than we think on the idle circuits.

 

[Maquis]

I once left my truck on for about 4 hours to run a battery charger connected to a tractor. Drawing about 200 watts. During that time I was also using an air compressor that cycled occasionally. The SoC didn’t change at all over that duration. I didn’t bother to shut down anything on the truck other than HVAC.

If you don’t shut HVAC off completely, the truck could decide to run the AC compressor or E-heat, depending on cabin conditions.

There have been reports recently of the SoC dropping strangely (a few % as soon as driving was initiated). Maybe what you’re seeing is another aspect of this clearly bogus SoC step-change.

 

[BeeKind]

I once left my truck on for about 4 hours to run a battery charger connected to a tractor. Drawing about 200 watts. During that time I was also using an air compressor that cycled occasionally. The SoC didn’t change at all over that duration. I didn’t bother to shut down anything on the truck other than HVAC.

If you don’t shut HVAC off completely, the truck could decide to run the AC compressor or E-heat, depending on cabin conditions.

There have been reports recently of the SoC dropping strangely (a few % as soon as driving was initiated). Maybe what you’re seeing is another aspect of this clearly bogus SoC step-change.

Hmm, wasn't looking for more potential variables/noise! lol

Is there a more exact way to be reading sensors and values via OBD-II for this?

 

[Maquis]

Hmm, wasn't looking for more potential variables/noise! lol

Is there a more exact way to be reading sensors and values via OBD-II for this?

I’ll let someone with more ODB-II savvy than me comment on this.

 

[MTBAZ]

Trying to think outside the box, these are both long shots.

Your stating your power draw, if you have a plug in power meter or access to the Hot and Neutral verify the current and voltage. If voltage is on the low side, current will be on the high side, and if the extension cords are small wired and long they will introduce more losses than normal.

There could be an interaction between the cheap AC's (I'm assuming they are cheep) and the pro power system. It's different that what Ford had in mind when they specified the pro power system in a work truck running job site tools.

 

[BeeKind]

Trying to think outside the box, these are both long shots.

Your stating your power draw, if you have a plug in power meter or access to the Hot and Neutral verify the current and voltage. If voltage is on the low side, current will be on the high side, and if the extension cords are small wired and long they will introduce more losses than normal.

There could be an interaction between the cheap AC's (I'm assuming they are cheep) and the pro power system. It's different that what Ford had in mind when they specified the pro power system in a work truck running job site tools.

It's a dated through the wall unit, great for stressing 120v circuits

I don't know that I'm ready to cede Ford was focusing on power tools. I think that's the marketing we have for the past few years because V2x didn't pan out as exactly awesome.

Home battery backup is a far bigger market. Very few people run 240v welders and those that do need more amps anyways. Everyone has a house that has electricity that goes out from time to time though.

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