Back Charging my Lightning using pro-power ports

[whatsagrid]

You would have to lay out an entire array facing south all day in order to get 10 kWh into your truck. About 1.5 - 2.5kW worth of panels on a typical day.

I can incorporate 12 panels in my most aggressive design for a max output of 4.8 kw. I’ll start with 3 panels and hope to get 1kw of output in real use. I live in Florida so I have plenty of sun. I could buy a battery and charge the battery and then charge the truck from the battery but Elon isn’t going to get to Mars taking shortcuts. I have a 98 kWh battery so it makes little sense to buy a 3kwh backup system. I just need to figure out how to access it directl……

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[whatsagrid]

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FAQ:
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$2500 plus is still cheaper than a fire!

This looks like it would be an EXCELLENT solution for installing solar canopy’s in parking lots. It would be better if it had a payment system integrated. But as for a single use Case either in my truck or in a home application …. I’m not so sure. Yes…I could by pass the inverter and extra battery in my truck and charge direct to solar but the efficiency and price seem to be a wash. If it was cheaper then it would be a nice accessory to pull up to a solar farm and plug in . The modern version of picking apples from a roadside orchard.

 

[whatsagrid]

You would have to lay out an entire array facing south all day in order to get 10 kWh into your truck. About 1.5 - 2.5kW worth of panels on a typical day.

That is probably accurate but I’m not so worried about the numbers. The numbers will improve. We are a long way from the Commodore 64 and solar and battery technology will take an even steeper growth curve. 10 years ago we all thought tesla was going to fail and now we are on the verge of robo taxis. The important thing is to innovate and find new ways to do things and then let the community figure out how to use the new tools.

 

[whatsagrid]

Considering what your goal is you still need to take in some other factors. You can not go DC to DC, not without being a master electrician, and knowing the existing wiring like you worked on the assembly line. So, what can you realistically do in your garage. Cost is not an object or the purpose. Nor is range extension, which is what most people talk about when they talk about solar tonneau covers. What you're wanting to do is actually pretty feasible with an extra step or two.

Solar to an inverter, used to charge a holding tank battery like an EcoFlow. Then a mobile charger from the EcoFlow to the truck. It kind of sucks because you're inverting power back and forth from DC to AC to DC to AC to DC, and losing some juice each time, but that's going to accomplish your overland/zombie survival scenario.

Now if you want to really get crazy, cut some of that back and forth out, you can probably safely (still going to void warranties, but not die or create a safety issue) go from Solar, to a solar inverter directly to your trucks inverter. This might cause some issues because the truck inverters seem to like a clean and steady power supply, and they aren't going to allow for charging while driving without hacking the trucks computers, but should be more efficient.

IMO option one suits most of your desire with the least complication.

I’m ok with option 1 but I don’t want to plug in the charge controller each time. I want it to be hard wired.

for example. I travel often. I would love to just park my truck at the airport and come back to a full charge every time. No charge cable connected.

 

[jimfigler]

Can I charge the battery of my lighting by charging using the bed outlets or frunk outlet? I don’t want to push a lot of power but I would like to install a single solar panel on top of my tonneau cover (approximately 400 watts) and grow from there.

I want to find a way to charge the battery without plugging into the charge port. I can electrify my home with a double male extension cord and a generator with no adverse effect other than potentially killing myself.

If back charging is impossible due to a diode or other safety measures or if there is some reason it wouldn’t work (theoretically) then I would be happy to hear from KNOWLEDGEABLE people on the matter. Also, if i can splice into the charge port some way so that I can hardwire the solar system I would greatly value a schematic, instructions or link to such a device.

This isn’t facebook or X so please limit your comments to facts. You can send me a personal message to tell me how stupid I am if you feel the need.

Thank you.

It's a Lightning not a lighting, unless you want to charge a lamp

 

[invertedspear]

I’m ok with option 1 but I don’t want to plug in the charge controller each time. I want it to be hard wired.

for example. I travel often. I would love to just park my truck at the airport and come back to a full charge every time. No charge cable connected.

Yeah, but I think that's where you're talking hacking or replacing programmed controllers on the truck. You'd need to be a hardware and software expert as well as have the ability to reprogram things on the truck. It's not as simple as making some electronic connections. I don't personally see a way for you to do that in a way that the truck will accept it.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Part of me still wondered if this is a joke/troll.

Once again, no there is no means by which you can hotwire a few solar panels directly into the battery. That is not how anything works. The fact that you use double male extension death cords to backfeed your hose with a generator is very telling. My recommendation is stop trying to kill yourself and other with ridiculous electrical hacks.

 

[mq019]

I’m ok with option 1 but I don’t want to plug in the charge controller each time. I want it to be hard wired.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you'd be OK with an EcoFlow (or similar), then sure, put one in the bed of your truck, then put solar panels on your bed cover connected to the EcoFlow, and it will charge. You can hardwire all of that, no issues, and dont even need to modify the truck (outside of the bed cover). Plug the truck into the ecoflow and bam - it will charge. Not sure about leaving it for any length of time though. the EcoFlow would need to sense when it was low, and stop charging the truck so that it could re-charge itself, then re-start charging the truck. Maybe doable.

for example. I travel often. I would love to just park my truck at the airport and come back to a full charge every time. No charge cable connected.

This aint happening without a few things that just dont make sense:
1 - depending on your SOC when you leave it at the airport, you better plan to be gone for a long time. Even with the best solar panels out there currently or in development you simply dont have enough real estate on your bed cover. Even if you somehow managed to get 2kw of solar panels on your bed, from a 50% SOC, you'd be looking at months to come back to a full charge.
2 - No charge cable connected doesnt make sense and wouldnt work without hacking the software of the truck. Figuring out where to connect the wires, and drilling holes and cutting things and running the wire and getting a stable, clean connection would be the easy part of this. You're more likely to brick the brains of the truck when you start messing with the software to try and figure out how to make it charge while driving (this isnt something that Ford just chose not to do - they specifically engineered it to not be possible - so you're working to not just add a capability, but to defeat multiple security and safety systems) and I just don't see any benefit in doing this. The risks of wasting a lot of money that could be spent on other things to give you off-grid charging (ie. something like this-> https://beamforall.com/product/ev-arc-2020/ ), and potentially killing yourself or someone else in the process just arent worth it.

 

[Firn]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure this out. I'm starting to think someone believes this is like putting a trickle charger on a 12v battery.

If you want to leave your truck at the airport you would still need to deploy a FULL array of solar panels. And at that it would still take THIRTEEN DAYS to fully recharge the truck.

I don't know what kind of freedom you think that is but paying my utility $20 and having my truck charged overnight is a LOT more freeing than deploying a medium sized array of solar panels and letting my truck sit for two weeks. Heck, even just the panels will be over $2000 before ANYTHING else.

Then you have the fact that you just torched the warranty on a $45,000 battery before you consider the inverters, charging circuits, modules, and labor. And thats just so "I don't have to plug something in".


This is not just pushing some electrons around. One, the DC side of things is off the table, you are talking 400 volts and aside from some VERY expensive converters and some custom programming on 400v control circuits you won't even be touching that.
You COULD touch the 120/240v side, but even that isn't "just pushing some AC into the truck". The whole thing is controlled by the external charging unit and you would still have to get into custom programming to match charge curves with panel output, and to interface on the J-1772 interface otherwise the truck won't do anything at all.

 

[Scorpio3d]

You could….
1. Purchase a used(or new if money is no object) standard range Ford F150 Lightning battery or a MachE battery and mount it in the bed of the truck then install your solar array with inverter to charge that battery. Hack into your trucks electrical system so that you can install a switch to go from the factory installed battery to the newly installed bed battery.
(back in the day people used to install two gas tanks and had a transfer switch when one of them was getting close to empty kind of the same principle).

2. Purchase a couple of powerwall 3’s and mount them in the bed of the truck (this has a built-in inverter) and then mount your panels on top of your bed/tonnau cover. You would need a Tesla universal adapter to get the power from the power walls to the truck charging port.

3. Build a solar tracking trailer with batteries for solar storage.

4. Install solar on your house or in your yard or wherever and use that to charge your vehicle and power your house.

The ROI is probably only feasible on option 4. If you look at the cost of solar battery storage, it makes the F150 Lightning look quite inexpensive! The ER battery is 131 kW +/- so you would need about 10 powerwalls to have an equal amount of storage. The cost of six power walls, not including installation:

So you are better off buying a MachE or F150 Lightning pro or some other EV!

good luck!

 

[whatsagrid]

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...t/2022-F-150-BEV-Modifiers-Guide-MCS-6180.pdf

This is a good document to continue the conversation. There is a battery charge Module (Several from the schematics). I have no interest in using DC charging since it is over 400 volts but ….. I believe there may be an opportunity to plug directly into the ac input of the charge controller. I will dive deeper but if anyone has a link to a photo or schematic of the charge modules that would be another step in the right direction.

 

[Runaway Tractor]

Hot wiring the AC side is not going to work either. This is not a lawn mower. This is ridiculous. If you're going to ignore everything everyone is saying, why are you here??

 

[whatsagrid]

Hot wiring the AC side is not going to work either. This is not a lawn mower. This is ridiculous. If you're going to ignore everything everyone is saying, why are you here??

We don’t post in a forum and get a few people to say it can’t be done and then slink under the couch in shame. The goal is to keep asking until we find the solution.

I’m here to find someone that has the knowledge to give me the answers I seek.

There is always a way forward.

I don’t understand the utility of your response. As I mentioned in my original post …. If you want to be a keyboard warrior then please message me and tell me I’m stupid but this forum is for winners.

If you have a reason on why I can’t Hotwire the ac port of the charge controlker ….that would qualify as being in the winner column.

If you have a picture of the charge controller and a link to a parts catalog that would be helpful. If I’m dealing with ac and stay away from the dc side of things then it (theoretically) should be a straightforward issues as the charge controller acts as a regulator between anything stupid I may do and the battery. At the very worst case I blow up the charge controller. No biggie.

facbook and X and social media in general is a better place for your opinion about my efforts.

 

[whatsagrid]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure this out. I'm starting to think someone believes this is like putting a trickle charger on a 12v battery.

If you want to leave your truck at the airport you would still need to deploy a FULL array of solar panels. And at that it would still take THIRTEEN DAYS to fully recharge the truck.

I don't know what kind of freedom you think that is but paying my utility $20 and having my truck charged overnight is a LOT more freeing than deploying a medium sized array of solar panels and letting my truck sit for two weeks. Heck, even just the panels will be over $2000 before ANYTHING else.

Then you have the fact that you just torched the warranty on a $45,000 battery before you consider the inverters, charging circuits, modules, and labor. And thats just so "I don't have to plug something in".


This is not just pushing some electrons around. One, the DC side of things is off the table, you are talking 400 volts and aside from some VERY expensive converters and some custom programming on 400v control circuits you won't even be touching that.
You COULD touch the 120/240v side, but even that isn't "just pushing some AC into the truck". The whole thing is controlled by the external charging unit and you would still have to get into custom programming to match charge curves with panel output, and to interface on the J-1772 interface otherwise the truck won't do anything at all.

It is my understanding that the ac charging is managed onboard by the Battery Control Module and that the DC charging is managed off board by the charger. Is there something special about the AC portion of the J-1772 charger?

 

[whatsagrid]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you'd be OK with an EcoFlow (or similar), then sure, put one in the bed of your truck, then put solar panels on your bed cover connected to the EcoFlow, and it will charge. You can hardwire all of that, no issues, and dont even need to modify the truck (outside of the bed cover). Plug the truck into the ecoflow and bam - it will charge. Not sure about leaving it for any length of time though. the EcoFlow would need to sense when it was low, and stop charging the truck so that it could re-charge itself, then re-start charging the truck. Maybe doable.




This aint happening without a few things that just dont make sense:
1 - depending on your SOC when you leave it at the airport, you better plan to be gone for a long time. Even with the best solar panels out there currently or in development you simply dont have enough real estate on your bed cover. Even if you somehow managed to get 2kw of solar panels on your bed, from a 50% SOC, you'd be looking at months to come back to a full charge.
2 - No charge cable connected doesnt make sense and wouldnt work without hacking the software of the truck. Figuring out where to connect the wires, and drilling holes and cutting things and running the wire and getting a stable, clean connection would be the easy part of this. You're more likely to brick the brains of the truck when you start messing with the software to try and figure out how to make it charge while driving (this isnt something that Ford just chose not to do - they specifically engineered it to not be possible - so you're working to not just add a capability, but to defeat multiple security and safety systems) and I just don't see any benefit in doing this. The risks of wasting a lot of money that could be spent on other things to give you off-grid charging (ie. something like this-> https://beamforall.com/product/ev-arc-2020/ ), and potentially killing yourself or someone else in the process just arent worth it.

I’m ok with charging while the truck is in park for now. The regen braking charges the truck while moving so it’s not a physics law that makes it impossible. Also the new Ram EV Truck has an onboard generator that charges the truck while moving.

If we ignore the limits of solar for now and focus on what I want, which is a secondary charging port on the truck then it is feasible to consider putting a generator in the bed of the truck and using it as a range extender. I could burn biodiesel and stop at restaurants to get their used cooking oil maybe more effectively than installing solar panels for the next decade until the solar tech catches up. I could pull a wood burning steam engine if I wanted to drive to Alaska. Last I looked there is plenty of wood there.

Every EV is a serial hybrid. The only difference between them is whether power is onboard or offboard. In the case of a Tesla the power is generated from the grid. In the new Ram EV truck the power is generated onboard. There is going to be a revolution in alternative power sources from mini nuclear to campsite steam engines etc and I want to modify my truck to get ahead of the curve.

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