Blue Oval charges vs Tesla charge via app

[TaxmanHog]

That's what I'm getting at. If the Supercharger was billing $0.59/kWh pre-tax, once you add tax it would give you a higher effective cost per kWh.

This invoice from charging in Iowa came in with a whopping 16% tax (even though it claims only 9.6%). I was charged $0.31/kWh for the energy, but the effective rate was $0.36/kWh.

Interesting, there may be multiple taxes, state sales, county or city, if so I would expect the composite value to be stated.

My Tesla app based charging test last April at a brand new station shows accurate Mass sales tax only.

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[PrimeRisk]

Interesting, there may be multiple taxes, state sales, county or city, if so I would expect the composite value to be stated.

My Tesla app based charging test last April at a brand new station shows accurate Mass sales tax only.

Yeah, it looks to be a an Iowa thing. All of my other receipts represent the correct tax percentage.

 

[Firn]

That's what I'm getting at. If the Supercharger was billing $0.59/kWh pre-tax, once you add tax it would give you a higher effective cost per kWh.

This invoice from charging in Iowa came in with a whopping 16% tax (even though it claims only 9.6%). I was charged $0.31/kWh for the energy, but the effective rate was $0.36/kWh.

Minor point but that Tesla picture is the final charges, including tax.

Edit: invoice

 

[PrimeRisk]

Below is the type of charging session that frustrates the heck out of me with Tesla. What did I pay per kWh? No one will tell you as they are charging by time and not measuring the power delivered. I hate this type of obfuscation. By law, they have to tell you how much gasoline or diesel is per gallon including all taxes and fees. The pumps also have to be certified by a state's Weights and Measures department. There are stiff penalties for errors and out of spec pumps.

Unfortunately charging is the wild, wild west for now. They can obfuscate what you are actually paying through charging by time (and I'm not referencing idle fees here), kWh, or both for time and kWh. I'm really not for a lot of regulation, but this is a case where I believe it is needed. Making matters worse, you cannot see what the charging rates are at superchargers are online, only in the car. Nor does Tesla disclose the tax rates before you charge. I'm used to any range between 4-8%, but Iowa blew my socks off at 16%. Of course, this is after you've paid for the session.

I stumbled across a destination charger at a motel in a small town in Wyoming where you had to read the charges on a single line of scrolling text. They were charging $0.25/minute plus $0.50/kWh on a 40A charger. I would have needed about 4 hours on the charger for 40kWh and the charges would have been $80 for the session or $2/kWh. No. Thank. You. I wonder how many people plugged in and just swiped their card only to find out later what they they were actually charged?

 

[PrimeRisk]

Minor point but that Tesla picture is the final charges, including tax.



Edit: invoice

View attachment 94246

This is what I'm getting at. Tesla told you that the price was $0.44/kWh for $28.95, but the total price including taxes was $30.98 which back works to $0.47/kWh. This also explains why people will see a rate and consumption, then see a higher charge in the BlueOval or Telsa App charging summary. It's the taxes being added.

TL;DR: There's nothing nefarious going on between Tesla and Ford.

 

[Firn]

This is what I'm getting at. Tesla told you that the price was $0.44/kWh for $28.95, but the total price including taxes was $30.98 which back works to $0.47/kWh. This also explains why people will see a rate and consumption, then see a higher charge in the BlueOval or Telsa App charging summary. It's the taxes being added.

TL;DR: There's nothing nefarious going on between Tesla and Ford.

All I was pointing out was the image posted at the beginning of this thread stating the cost was $0.59 /kwh was the actual cost. And to be slightly pedantic, it is that which you disagreed with and started this string of comments.

And you are wrong, Tesla told me the cost was $0.47 /kwh, not $0.44. They showed the AFTER tax price, not the before tax price.
Not just me, see here as well.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/another-nearly-3-000-miles-more-learnings.41543/

 

[Firn]

Below is the type of charging session that frustrates the heck out of me with Tesla. What did I pay per kWh? No one will tell you as they are charging by time and not measuring the power delivered. I hate this type of obfuscation. By law, they have to tell you how much gasoline or diesel is per gallon including all taxes and fees. The pumps also have to be certified by a state's Weights and Measures department. There are stiff penalties for errors and out of spec pumps.

Unfortunately charging is the wild, wild west for now. They can obfuscate what you are actually paying through charging by time (and I'm not referencing idle fees here), kWh, or both for time and kWh. I'm really not for a lot of regulation, but this is a case where I believe it is needed. Making matters worse, you cannot see what the charging rates are at superchargers are online, only in the car. Nor does Tesla disclose the tax rates before you charge. I'm used to any range between 4-8%, but Iowa blew my socks off at 16%. Of course, this is after you've paid for the session.

I stumbled across a destination charger at a motel in a small town in Wyoming where you had to read the charges on a single line of scrolling text. They were charging $0.25/minute plus $0.50/kWh on a 40A charger. I would have needed about 4 hours on the charger for 40kWh and the charges would have been $80 for the session or $2/kWh. No. Thank. You. I wonder how many people plugged in and just swiped their card only to find out later what they they were actually charged?

They are not obfuscating the information. Different jurisdictions treat electricity different. In this case only a public utility is allowed to sell you electricity, Tesla cannot. This is the law. What Tesla can do is sell you time at a place with access to electricity. This allows them to provide charging without breaking the law and acting as a public utility.

This is literally the result OF regulation...

 

[PrimeRisk]

They are not obfuscating the information. Different jurisdictions treat electricity different. In this case only a public utility is allowed to sell you electricity, Tesla cannot. This is the law. What Tesla can do is sell you time at a place with access to electricity. This allows them to provide charging without breaking the law and acting as a public utility.

This is literally the result OF regulation...

Thank you for the explanation of the billing restrictions in some states.

 

[PrimeRisk]

All I was pointing out was the image posted at the beginning of this thread stating the cost was $0.59 /kwh was the actual cost. And to be slightly pedantic, it is that which you disagreed with and started this string of comments.

And you are wrong, Tesla told me the cost was $0.47 /kwh, not $0.44. They showed the AFTER tax price, not the before tax price.
Not just me, see here as well.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/another-nearly-3-000-miles-more-learnings.41543/

Ok, I'm with you if the price Tesla displays on the live pricing info on the info screen for the Supercharger showed you the post-tax rates on the screen. I stand corrected.

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