Campground charging checklist? What do I need?

[21st Century Truck]

Has been covered earlier in the thread, but the gist is the Lightning will only charge at 12 amps on 120 volts, no matter how many amps the outlet could supply to some other load. So you'd only be using 12 of that 30.

This is a common safety standard for all EV portable EVSE cords and internal car / truck chargers (yes our chargers are built into the inside of our vehicles). The reasoning for this EVSE standard is, afaik, that plugging into a random 120V receptacle and demanding more than 12 amps can easily lead to overpowering the circuit and popping the fuse / breaker on that receptacle, since most 120V receptacles are the common wall receptacles rated for only 12 amps.

The car / truck cannot "feel" the NEMA 5-15 shape vice a TT-30 shape of the 120V receptacle and so it defaults to a "I sense this is 120V = I can draw no more than 12 amps" logic for standardized safety.

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[CD4TNF]

In preparation for my own camping, I bought a J+ Booster with the TT-30 adapter and NEMA 14-50 adapter. It's German made and can toggle the amps. Planning on plugging into the plug at the camp site, ideally a NRMA 14-50.

https://jplusbooster.com


That way I figure I can downrate to 32 amps. That saves some capacity for the campsite, a concern folks here have expressed. 32 amps on a 50 amp NEMA 14-50 means 7.6kW. From 30% to 100% would take 12 hrs. (98kWh / 7.6kW = 12 hrs) If I'm camping, I'm definitely going to be staying there longer than 12 hours.

Even at 24 amps, 120V is 2.8 kW or 36 hours for the 98 kWh. A day and a half of enjoying the outdoors.


The other prep I'm going to do is Favorite the nearest charger to my campsite in the Ford nav. That way I know the distance to the Level 3 charger. If there is no cell service, at least I can plot it on the nav.? ?


That will also inform me of how much battery % is ideal for me to get to the level 3 charger.


For my first trip, I'm not going out overlanding. Definitely going to have a campsite with RV plugs or a level 2 charger. Once I build up some experience, I'll brave a wilderness campsite.


I already visited a few sites to scout them out. I talked with the camp host and a ranger. Neither had any issues with charging and were interested in if would all work out.

 

[RocketGhost]

I don't know if this is ever an issue at campgrounds, but I was visiting a friend and they had a 14-50 receptacle in a weatherproof box with a cover. The receptacle was recessed deep inside the box and the right-angle plug of my charger would have barely gone in without trimming the box. So I got a one-foot 50amp extension cord with a straight male plug on one end and a female on the other. I figure it will be good to add to the collection just in case I run into that again somewhere.

 

[CD4TNF]

Just be aware, the Lightning will charge no faster than 12a on 120v, regardless of the charger.

I appreciate the correction

 

[Nlrkoa]

If you're coming across i-40. I have a level 2 charger at the Little Rock North junction I-40 KOA. It's on the honor system. 11 cents a kilowatt hour.

 

[potato]

This is a common safety standard for all EV portable EVSE cords and internal car / truck chargers (yes our chargers are built into the inside of our vehicles). The reasoning for this EVSE standard is, afaik, that plugging into a random 120V receptacle and demanding more than 12 amps can easily lead to overpowering the circuit and popping the fuse / breaker on that receptacle, since most 120V receptacles are the common wall receptacles rated for only 12 amps.

The car / truck cannot "feel" the NEMA 5-15 shape vice a TT-30 shape of the 120V receptacle and so it defaults to a "I sense this is 120V = I can draw no more than 12 amps" logic for standardized safety.

Yes all true if you're using a 5-15 plug. But if you have an EVSE with a 30 amp plug, then it signals to the truck that 30 amps are safely available, and the truck still only asks for 12. It's a limitation of the truck, well documented.

 

[Calson]

Many trailers and Class A motorhomes have two air conditioners and each of them draws more than 20 amps for the time that the RV is at the campsite. A EV charging is not going to draw more power.

Many RV sites have problems with floating grounds or even reversed polarity at the pedestals. I used a polarity tester that was build in to the plug adapter. For surge supression at RV sites a Hughes autoformer will maintain a minimum voltage for the RV electronics as well as protect against surges. Low voltage is more damaging than voltage surges for electronic devices.

https://unitedrvparts.com/products/...tion?msclkid=1810592c14ce1991837e3e4c69175136

 

[21st Century Truck]

Yes all true if you're using a 5-15 plug. But if you have an EVSE with a 30 amp plug, then it signals to the truck that 30 amps are safely available, and the truck still only asks for 12. It's a limitation of the truck, well documented.

I thought that's what I said... the charger in the car / truck will not ask for more than 12 amps on a 120V line. The EVSE is just a "spigot".

 

[solastobann]

https://koa.com/ev/

On a hot summer day in Texas the current flow for air conditioners will be 24/7.

 

[potato]

I thought that's what I said... the charger in the car / truck will not ask for more than 12 amps on a 120V line. The EVSE is just a "spigot".

True. I thought you kind of implied it was a necessary safety feature though. In my opinion it's a "misfeature". There are common situations where 120V at >15 amps is available safely - e.g. the campground TT-30 that sparked this discussion, and plenty of smaller generators. It's a bad assumption/design on Ford's part to not allow those to be used. In my opinion. Maybe there's some technical reason, but it's still a puzzling and annoying omission when lots of other EVs are not similarly crippled.

 

[21st Century Truck]

True. I thought you kind of implied it was a necessary safety feature though. In my opinion it's a "misfeature". There are common situations where 120V at >15 amps is available safely - e.g. the campground TT-30 that sparked this discussion, and plenty of smaller generators. It's a bad assumption/design on Ford's part to not allow those to be used. In my opinion. Maybe there's some technical reason, but it's still a puzzling and annoying omission when lots of other EVs are not similarly crippled.

AFAIK this 120V limitation is / was an agreed-on EV manufacturers' standard.

I can't cite a source... just that is how it always was presented in my past 13 years of using EVSEs from car manufacturers and aftermarket sellers.

Yes of course I wish that the TT-30 receptacle with its potential of 30 amps at 120V were fully usable by portable EVSEs... there are plenty of such very functional older receptacles available across National Forest and related campgrounds I've used across our four plug-in hybrid and EV cars since 2011.

At the same time, I also understand (again, afaik) why EVSE / EV manufacturers had agreed early on to limit 120V draws in their vehicle chargers to 12 amps, as at 120V this is by far the most often seen receptacle and circuit.

 

[21st Century Truck]

By that logic 240v should be limited to 24a. The most common receptacle is the 14-30, p or r. So then regardless of what the evse says, power should be limited.

Sorry, I know you didn't make that decision. But if that is the logic used then by design the manufactures are ignoring the EVSE, which is the entire purpose the evse exists. It's illogical

Ironically Tesla ignores that and changes the rate of their mobile charger based upon the plug used.

Beyond my pay grade, and all that.

I'm certain there are EV consortium associations like all the other professional associations in existence in the USA... and based on how I understand fire protection associations, house building associations, medical associations and all their similar ilk, they get together in their professional conclaves and make (and often adjust) their association decisions, in our case the EVSE and EV power supply agreed-on standards that result in the equipment we live with. A friend had been a regular attendee at the annual home building inspectors' professional association, and the stories he told after their conclaves were both instructive and amusing.

I seem to dimly remember that the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) also evolved this way to eventually set define the standards for all the bolts and nuts we now use as "SAE" without even a thought.

In my humble opinion, as cantankerous as this naturally evolved North American professional self-evolved standard-setting system can be, it is far more responsive and flexible than, say, the ECE government committee standards the EU sets over across the Big Pond to our East.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

AFAIK this 120V limitation is / was an agreed-on EV manufacturers' standard.

I can't cite a source... just that is how it always was presented in my past 13 years of using EVSEs from car manufacturers and aftermarket sellers.

Yes of course I wish that the TT-30 receptacle with its potential of 30 amps at 120V were fully usable by portable EVSEs... there are plenty of such very functional older receptacles available across National Forest and related campgrounds I've used across our four plug-in hybrid and EV cars since 2011.

At the same time, I also understand (again, afaik) why EVSE / EV manufacturers had agreed early on to limit 120V draws in their vehicle chargers to 12 amps, as at 120V this is by far the most often seen receptacle and circuit.

The J1772 standard allows for 16 Amps with 120 volts on a 20A circuit, but the issue is that it's impossible to *know* you're on a 20A receptacle without requiring a NEMA 5-20 plug be built into the EVSE. Requiring a 5-20P limits accessibility to the point of being almost useless, so most EVSEs are going to stick to a 5-15P and limit current to 12A.

 

[21st Century Truck]

But that's aside the point. Multiple EVSEs use exchangable plug ends to determine how much current can be allowed. Tesla being the big one, but webasto, who makes our evse, also does the same, you can go to the Cadillac site and buy a TT-30 that works in the Caddy webasto unit (if even fits out mobile charger).

And regardless, the truck ignores the EVSE and says that if it's 120v it will NOT pull more than 12a.

Yes... because it's the charger inside the truck that sets the demand (that tells the EVSE, whether portable one or a permanent one, how much to supply). If the charger senses a 120V connection, it'll set the demand at 12 amps.

Back when I ordered my 2012 plug-in Prius and ordered the associated Leviton 16 amp permanent EVSE box, the Toyota literature and the Toyota dealership EV lady were meticulous in explaining all this, then very new, stuff. About how the charger inside the car communicated to the EVSE thru the two small comms plugs about what the car's charger wanted, given the conditions it understood (my language here, 13 years later). And about how the EVSE, because of the new just-set EV association charging protocol standards, could / would only supply what the car's charger asked for. Which is why the Leviton 16-amp EVSE (at 240V) would only supply 12 amps because the Prius' internal charger only demanded 12 amps at 240V.

That same Leviton permanent EVSE began to supply 16 amps at 240V automatically when I sold the Prius and bought a 2015 Ford Fusion Energi... its car charger could and did demand more amps, and the old EVSE gave it all it could haha.

 

[21st Century Truck]

The EVSE sets the supply.

Yes of course the EVSE is there to set the supply. I note here that it's the car's charger which sets the demand for that particular EV car. Demand (what X is asking for) and supply (what Y can provide) are related yet not the same.

...and I wish everyone a Good Night!

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