Can I run a generator in bed to charge vehicle battery while driving?

[sotek2345]

I have a dual fuel generator Champion , it's very powerful, but I also can't recommend doing that even with a potent generator. Don't rush, give the car time to charge, I'm not sure, but it seems to me that using the car while charging can damage the accumulator

That wouldn't be nearly enough. You need something that can put out hundreds of amps at high voltage. The best bet would be a 3.5L ecoboost (or similar) connected to a DC generator that can push 400V at up to 1000A directly to the motors. Good luck fitting it all in the bed.

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[RickKeen]

Even if you could charge while driving, a large enough generator to keep up with uphill towing is going to tax the payload weight and size limits of what the truck can carry. You are talking a 25-50kw generator. Do some searches on generators of that capacity.

 

[Zprime29]

I just wan to be able to drive 150 miles up the hill to the summer home towing the jeep.

Wait another 2-3 years, Ram confirmed they are coming out with a range extender for the 1500 EV.

 

[WantALightning]

OK, after the jokes about "buy a hybrid"... Lets seriously look at some back of the napkin numbers on this topic for a permanently vehicle mounted Generator (maybe taking back the Frunk for a generator location).

First, Obviously Ford would need to enable charging while the vehicle is in motion, or let the generator output work in parallel with the battery invertor output to the motors or this discussion dies right there.

Yes, it's almost the same technology idea as a Chevy Volt. But the Volt's battery was too small as was the vehicle. Scale up the idea to F-150 size and I'd buy it right now. I have a Silverado in need of replacement; the standard battery would easily cover my daily driving. But I am not ready to try to road trip in a Lightning in rural Virginia.

A 20 kw Generac weighs just under 600 lbs which is slightly more than the weight difference of going from the 98 kWh battery to the 131 kWh battery. A liquid fueled model would likely be a similar weight + a small fuel tank and minus the metal enclosure (The frunk already provides that).

A 20 kW generator looks to cost about $ 6000. Battery upgrade price is hard to determine based on models available but appears to be around $ 15,000 so this option saves around $ 9000.

I believe the Level 2 factory charging limit on the Lightning is about 19kW, so running a 20kW generator at 80% capacity for continuous load you can get about 16kW out of it. Very few new special high voltage electronics required if this became an option.

If 2 miles / kwh is a conservative "mileage" estimate, that means for every hour the generator runs, you use 32 miles less of your battery range. Or if necessary, can add back 32 miles of range / hour to the batteries.

With an 100% charged, 240 mile battery at 65 mph you have about 3.5 hours of range. Add in the generator, you have an extra 3.5 hours * 32 miles range / hr = 112 miles added range or 352 miles. I believe that exceeds the claimed Ext range battery distance of 320 miles.

Similar logic works starting with a more typical 80% charged battery.

The generator should have a manual control option so the driver makes the decision if they need the range boost or not. If you know you are planning to travel farther than the battery can carry you on a charge, you start the generator at the beginning of the trip. If you are within battery range, don't choose to run the generator. If you find yourself low on charge, and no working charging station in range; start the generator, wait a few minutes to get a little extra range in the battery instead of calling AAA, then go find a charger.

If necessary you could run at "in town" speeds of 30 mph easily. At these lower speeds, the miles / kWh would be better so the vehicle could manage a little faster than 30 mph on the generator / battery combination to either finish your trip of find a working charger.

This option seems to be less expensive than an extended range battery, puts an end to Range Anxiety and is more versatile. As a bonus, it is the end of power outage issues even more so than the battery only version.

I've read about Ram's proposed range extender, but they appear to be going into overkill mode. The proposed 130 kW generator will run a medium sized supermarket.

My recommendation to Ford would be a true "range extender" as an option. Not 2 separate power plants each capable of running the vehicle in the worst case towing scenario. A true electric truck, that gets a little help when needed for the once a month, or unplanned trips that come up.

If the Power boost Hybrid 150 had a bigger battery with maybe 100 miles ideal range (60 real miles in bad weather) and included plug in charging options, that would also be worth considering. As is, the F-150 hybrid works well for contractor job power needs or tailgating; it helps a little in stop and go traffic, but really doesn't do much of anything for mileage.

 

[VTbuckeye]

OK, after the jokes about "buy a hybrid"... Lets seriously look at some back of the napkin numbers on this topic for a permanently vehicle mounted Generator (maybe taking back the Frunk for a generator location).

First, Obviously Ford would need to enable charging while the vehicle is in motion, or let the generator output work in parallel with the battery invertor output to the motors or this discussion dies right there.

Yes, it's almost the same technology idea as a Chevy Volt. But the Volt's battery was too small as was the vehicle. Scale up the idea to F-150 size and I'd buy it right now. I have a Silverado in need of replacement; the standard battery would easily cover my daily driving. But I am not ready to try to road trip in a Lightning in rural Virginia.

A 20 kw Generac weighs just under 600 lbs which is slightly more than the weight difference of going from the 98 kWh battery to the 131 kWh battery. A liquid fueled model would likely be a similar weight + a small fuel tank and minus the metal enclosure (The frunk already provides that).

A 20 kW generator looks to cost about $ 6000. Battery upgrade price is hard to determine based on models available but appears to be around $ 15,000 so this option saves around $ 9000.

I believe the Level 2 factory charging limit on the Lightning is about 19kW, so running a 20kW generator at 80% capacity for continuous load you can get about 16kW out of it. Very few new special high voltage electronics required if this became an option.

If 2 miles / kwh is a conservative "mileage" estimate, that means for every hour the generator runs, you use 32 miles less of your battery range. Or if necessary, can add back 32 miles of range / hour to the batteries.

With an 100% charged, 240 mile battery at 65 mph you have about 3.5 hours of range. Add in the generator, you have an extra 3.5 hours * 32 miles range / hr = 112 miles added range or 352 miles. I believe that exceeds the claimed Ext range battery distance of 320 miles.

Similar logic works starting with a more typical 80% charged battery.

The generator should have a manual control option so the driver makes the decision if they need the range boost or not. If you know you are planning to travel farther than the battery can carry you on a charge, you start the generator at the beginning of the trip. If you are within battery range, don't choose to run the generator. If you find yourself low on charge, and no working charging station in range; start the generator, wait a few minutes to get a little extra range in the battery instead of calling AAA, then go find a charger.

If necessary you could run at "in town" speeds of 30 mph easily. At these lower speeds, the miles / kWh would be better so the vehicle could manage a little faster than 30 mph on the generator / battery combination to either finish your trip of find a working charger.

This option seems to be less expensive than an extended range battery, puts an end to Range Anxiety and is more versatile. As a bonus, it is the end of power outage issues even more so than the battery only version.

I've read about Ram's proposed range extender, but they appear to be going into overkill mode. The proposed 130 kW generator will run a medium sized supermarket.

My recommendation to Ford would be a true "range extender" as an option. Not 2 separate power plants each capable of running the vehicle in the worst case towing scenario. A true electric truck, that gets a little help when needed for the once a month, or unplanned trips that come up.

If the Power boost Hybrid 150 had a bigger battery with maybe 100 miles ideal range (60 real miles in bad weather) and included plug in charging options, that would also be worth considering. As is, the F-150 hybrid works well for contractor job power needs or tailgating; it helps a little in stop and go traffic, but really doesn't do much of anything for mileage.

Your low power generator seems to match the bmw i3 range extender. That car could run out of electricity and continue with gas. However it had issues with hills and highway speed under range extender operation.
The volt had a 1.4L gas engine that could power the vehicle when battery range was exhausted. It has a mountain mode that would retain an extra portion of the battery to allow highway speed in the hills. It had a 55kw generator and in some conditions it was inadequate. Gen2 volt had a bigger engine, so that it didn't have to run as hard (loud/high rev). A truck would need a much bigger/more powerful range extender, particularly for towing and highway speed in the hills. 130kE may be overkill by ram, but 20kW would be way too low. Ideally you would want to be able operate on range extender alone.

A 40 kWh battery with 25ish kWh useable that could deliver 50 miles EV range with a power boost drivetrain and AC charging could be great, though it would require a more powerful electric motor, though you may need more battery so that it does not discharge too quickly. PHEV batteries get worked hard relatively speaking due to how small they are in relation to how powerful the electric motors are (EV with 100kWh battery with 200kW (400hp) of motor power would be like a 10kWh battery phev with only 20kW of motor output).

 

[WantALightning]

Thanks for reading the "epistle" I wrote; but where I was going is the Generator option gives similar if not more range, at less cost, than the larger battery. It also provides the owner with more options.

I wasn't going for the ability to drive off the generator output except at reduced speeds in a real pinch. My intent was extended range and the ability to self rescue.

 

[PreservedSwine]

The concept is nothing new, diesel- electric trains have been in use for decades, the diesel power plant on these only powers the generator.
it’s a great concept for a truck. The Ram brings this approach to their truck, and the market gets a new approach with a competitive EV concept

 

[Peddyr]

The concept is nothing new, diesel- electric trains have been in use for decades, the diesel power plant on these only powers the generator.
it’s a great concept for a truck. The Ram brings this approach to their truck, and the market gets a new approach with a competitive EV concept

I'm skeptical about pricing and features of EV trucks that are currently in a "concept" status....which is to say, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[JRT]

Buy ICE truck, or rent for limited needs.

 

[doverjustin]

OK, after the jokes about "buy a hybrid"... Lets seriously look at some back of the napkin numbers on this topic for a permanently vehicle mounted Generator (maybe taking back the Frunk for a generator location).

First, Obviously Ford would need to enable charging while the vehicle is in motion, or let the generator output work in parallel with the battery invertor output to the motors or this discussion dies right there.

Yes, it's almost the same technology idea as a Chevy Volt. But the Volt's battery was too small as was the vehicle. Scale up the idea to F-150 size and I'd buy it right now. I have a Silverado in need of replacement; the standard battery would easily cover my daily driving. But I am not ready to try to road trip in a Lightning in rural Virginia.

A 20 kw Generac weighs just under 600 lbs which is slightly more than the weight difference of going from the 98 kWh battery to the 131 kWh battery. A liquid fueled model would likely be a similar weight + a small fuel tank and minus the metal enclosure (The frunk already provides that).

A 20 kW generator looks to cost about $ 6000. Battery upgrade price is hard to determine based on models available but appears to be around $ 15,000 so this option saves around $ 9000.

I believe the Level 2 factory charging limit on the Lightning is about 19kW, so running a 20kW generator at 80% capacity for continuous load you can get about 16kW out of it. Very few new special high voltage electronics required if this became an option.

If 2 miles / kwh is a conservative "mileage" estimate, that means for every hour the generator runs, you use 32 miles less of your battery range. Or if necessary, can add back 32 miles of range / hour to the batteries.

With an 100% charged, 240 mile battery at 65 mph you have about 3.5 hours of range. Add in the generator, you have an extra 3.5 hours * 32 miles range / hr = 112 miles added range or 352 miles. I believe that exceeds the claimed Ext range battery distance of 320 miles.

Similar logic works starting with a more typical 80% charged battery.

The generator should have a manual control option so the driver makes the decision if they need the range boost or not. If you know you are planning to travel farther than the battery can carry you on a charge, you start the generator at the beginning of the trip. If you are within battery range, don't choose to run the generator. If you find yourself low on charge, and no working charging station in range; start the generator, wait a few minutes to get a little extra range in the battery instead of calling AAA, then go find a charger.

If necessary you could run at "in town" speeds of 30 mph easily. At these lower speeds, the miles / kWh would be better so the vehicle could manage a little faster than 30 mph on the generator / battery combination to either finish your trip of find a working charger.

This option seems to be less expensive than an extended range battery, puts an end to Range Anxiety and is more versatile. As a bonus, it is the end of power outage issues even more so than the battery only version.

I've read about Ram's proposed range extender, but they appear to be going into overkill mode. The proposed 130 kW generator will run a medium sized supermarket.

My recommendation to Ford would be a true "range extender" as an option. Not 2 separate power plants each capable of running the vehicle in the worst case towing scenario. A true electric truck, that gets a little help when needed for the once a month, or unplanned trips that come up.

If the Power boost Hybrid 150 had a bigger battery with maybe 100 miles ideal range (60 real miles in bad weather) and included plug in charging options, that would also be worth considering. As is, the F-150 hybrid works well for contractor job power needs or tailgating; it helps a little in stop and go traffic, but really doesn't do much of anything for mileage.

I think this person is going down the right logical path. Engineers just need to figure out the method. But as a lighting owner, I have toyed with the idea of pulling my 5th wheel, the range would be terrible but based on my experience with my 25 tritoon, it will be no issue for the truck.

But please think of the concept, this gentleman is proposing, the 5th wheel has a generator. If it could work in tandem reducing the draw, and recharge when producing more than the draw, it could eliminate the weight loss on range. Some campier owners have large battery packs also or could install, again weight ratio. And throw the real laugh, some campers have standard solar panels. Now where the kw and amps are low, something is better than nothing when you're camping in the woods.

I think people are misunderstanding the point is not driving forever, because heck I have done the iron butt challenge, to old now. But getting to 280 or even 350 on a camper pull would be a great thing to solve at current battery sizes.

It would be nice if Ford had a port that could tandem current voltage pull, and charge when no pull is designed and available no matter how inefficient some believe it is.

But my final vote would be hydrogen backup systems for all EVs to extend the range, that was one thing Nicola got right.

 

[invertedspear]

I think this person is going down the right logical path. Engineers just need to figure out the method. But as a lighting owner, I have toyed with the idea of pulling my 5th wheel, the range would be terrible but based on my experience with my 25 tritoon, it will be no issue for the truck.

But please think of the concept, this gentleman is proposing, the 5th wheel has a generator. If it could work in tandem reducing the draw, and recharge when producing more than the draw, it could eliminate the weight loss on range. Some campier owners have large battery packs also or could install, again weight ratio. And throw the real laugh, some campers have standard solar panels. Now where the kw and amps are low, something is better than nothing when you're camping in the woods.

I think people are misunderstanding the point is not driving forever, because heck I have done the iron butt challenge, to old now. But getting to 280 or even 350 on a camper pull would be a great thing to solve at current battery sizes.

It would be nice if Ford had a port that could tandem current voltage pull, and charge when no pull is designed and available no matter how inefficient some believe it is.

But my final vote would be hydrogen backup systems for all EVs to extend the range, that was one thing Nicola got right.

Typical RV generators put out 30 amps and about 3.6 kW. Let's say you have a great one, and it can put out 5kW, and all the right equipment is there to feed that into the truck while you drive. Most people pulling RVs report getting about 1 mile per kWh. So for each hour of driving, you'll add back about 5 miles of range with this method. That's fine if you're talking over night charging, but you could do that already in a camping situation. As for extending range, it's not going to get you anything tangible.

The self propelled trailers we're starting to see concepts of may be the right route, but they will double the time it takes you to charge unless you take up two CCS chargers that are somehow placed perfectly.

I like the idea of a hydrogen fuel cell, maybe something that can mount in the bed. and a plug for it opposite the pro-power, but I won't be holding my breath on that.

 

[RickKeen]

No charging along your route?

 

[Scorpio3d]

Tesla has/will have an extended battery pack for the cyber truck!
https://insideevs.com/news/699262/tesla-cybertruck-range-externder-weight/
I think one thing people are forgetting about hauling a generator is you also have to haul the fuel to power the generator at that point what is the purpose of having an electric vehicle? You could always just build a trailer with a solar array that tracks the sun with GPS and then just have some Tesla power walls to store the energy or just create a trailer with batteries and a motor that can push you down the road if you run out of juice in the truck.
Someone just needs to invent the flux capacitor, Doc where are you when we need you?

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