Could we expect price drop soon?

[chl]

Incidentally, I think from a size perspective that the Rivian is better suited to me. But size isn't the only factor. Price, aftermarket support, and serviceability are all important too. Which is why I picked the Lightning instead of the Rivian.

(Also what I really want is a smaller truck with a longer bed!)

I agree, a smaller truck with more bed room would be a good thing. I rarely ever need more than 1 passenger seat, so the super-cab is superfluous, but I often wish the bed on my Ranger was more than 6 ft long.
Is the Lightning supposed to be a work truck or a luxury family vehicle?
At $80k apparently Ford thinks it has to be the latter.

Maybe they should have done some research on what us pickup truck drivers wanted before they jacked up the price?
A $40k work truck would have be fine with me.

c

Sponsored

 

[FirstF150InCasco]

I couldn't disagree with this more. I think that the current Super Crew format of the F-150 has so much wasted interior space that is just useless. For one, it's just so WIDE. the passenger seat is a mile away from the driver. It makes the middle rear seat more usable, but... most people aren't going to use the middle rear seat ever, and the console space in the front is just total waste. In exchange you get a less versatile truck, since it's too wide to fit places you could get it into if it were 6-10" narrower. Parking garages, for example. Or EA chargers where there's somebody parked in the next space and you want to open the door to get out and plug in. And I certainly wouldn't have wanted to baby in this thing - can't reach the kid from the front seat! Lifting a car seat up that high? No thanks. Need a small car for babies.

For family trips there doesn't need to be that much legroom. I'm 6'1", and sitting in the back I have tons of knee room to spare. 6" more bed would be loads more useful. With the giant frunk, there is significantly less need for interior cargo space. And it's an EV so it's not a road-tripping vehicle for most users anyway. Road tripping in it is a lifestyle choice. I'd bet money that 90% of these trucks don't get more than 500 miles from home ever under first ownership.

The Ranger is what the F-150 should be. And the Maverick is what the Ranger should be. The Ranger is a full size pickup in every way other than how the marketeers choose to position it in the market. It's almost exactly the same size as an F-150 from 20 years ago.

Anyway, if they come out with a Ranger Lightning, sign me up. As long as they keep the performance, and the Pro Power, and an actual frame. Just... smaller.

I love all the space. Most times it's just me and my Red Lab. He get's the entire back (with the seats up and a huge pad covering the entire floor.) We took a 400 mile trip at Thanksgiving -- 4 adults and one small dog; the lab stayed home -- and everyone LOVED having all the space. I'm in love with my Lightning as is.

 

[Commodore]

This says the quad motor variant is $79K. The 3 and 4 motor cybertrucks were to be first built...

 

[Roy2001]

This says the quad motor variant is $79K. The 3 and 4 motor cybertrucks were to be first built...

If this is the original 500 mile range version it would be great. But I doubt.

 

[Roy2001]

I agree because:
1) I think in 2023, the lightning will have some tough competition and will have to lower the price.
2) the supply chain problems have improved (the justification for the $15k price increase)
3) There are plenty of unsold Lariat Lightnings sitting unsold, last time I checked, asking $75K and up
4) dealer markups make customers feel gouged, around here anywhere from $5k-$10k only a few MSRP sellers
5) the competition, Tesla Cybertruck, will have more range, faster charging, and bigger charging station network, and probably will start at a lower MSRP because Tesla has mitigated many of the supply chain issues as well as manufacturing issues Ford has had gearing up to be an EV company
6) Ford MIGHT decide to sell to consumers directly since I just read 40% of dealers aren't buying in to the EV deal - that would cut a lot of costs passed on to the consumer (as any honest analysis of the dealership/manufacturer business model will show)
7) and, God forbid, there may be a hard landing economically (recession) due to the Fed's struggle to control inflation - the analysts are split on that - but if our elected reps can't agree to increase the anachronistic debt limit, and the US defaults on its debts, there will be a bad recession, and it don't look too good right now from here in the DC suburbs.

Tesla has 1.5 million orders in hand and has limited capacity so price won't go down for a while.

 

[Roy2001]

As far as I know the only Silverado Work Truck available at launch is the WT3 which is like 75k. And the RST is 105k. 75k for a "Work Truck" is a bit of a stretch...

I don't think Ford will be lowering prices, but perhaps they'll hold the prices steady for a while. Or perhaps adjust prices slightly for pricing targets on rebates, but I feel like they would have done that already, as the 80k price limit is not new information. It has to be more intentional than it seems.

Work truck for $75k would be a joke...

 

[chl]

Work truck for $75k would be a joke...

Nissan is now considering an EV pickup - eliminating the TITAN ICE.
https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a42638488/nissan-electric-pickup-truck/

I saw that someone is reporting the higher-end Silverado EV trucks are coming out first, but that contradicts what I have seen directly from Chevy and reported in Forbes and elsewhere, which are still saying that the first ones to market will be the MSRP starting price work-trucks at $41, 595 "The first Silverado EVs will arrive in the spring of 2023, but they will be limited to Work Truck grade models for fleet customers, with retail sales opening up late in the year. The fall of 2023 will see the arrival of the RST at dealerships, with other trim lines added in early 2024. "

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/cars/chevrolet/silverado-ev/

Last Updated On: January 11, 2023 5:07 am. Original article by: Sagar Parikh

• The Silverado EV Work Truck starts at USD 39.9k MSRP & arrives in Spring 2023
• Gets a 5'11" bed with one 240-volt AC outlet & four 120-volt AC outlets to power tools
• GM has confirmed a range of 400 miles & 8000 lbs. of maximum towing capacity for the WT
• Gets lockable, weatherproof compartment under the hood for toolbox & gear

https://topelectricsuv.com/news/chevrolet/chevrolet-silverado-ev-work-truck/

Ford DID make a few MSRP $40k 2022 Lightnings but too few. I did run across a couple MSRP $40k-$50k 2022 Lightnings in my area but one was a demo with over 2,000 miles on it and a mark-up of $14k to $64k, the other cheaper one was already sold when I called.

All the others for sale in my area were the $75k and up models with $10k markups - thanks but no thanks.

It is hard to say how the competition will affect Ford or any other EV pickup truck makers down the road.

The price jump of $16k Ford claims was due to the cost of batteries. The trend for EV Li batteries has been a downward slope for decades until the pandemic hit, so it will logically go back to the downward slope as things get back to normal.

I know from reading here and elsewhere there is a market for a $40k work pickup truck without all the unneeded (by me anyway) bells and whistles. Bigger than the market for $80k and up versions for sure.

Ideally I would want a regular cab pickup with an 8 foot bed (like the Ram) in an EV pickup truck.
I have lived with the less than 6 foot bed of my 2001 Ranger XLT although it gets hairy when I haul some 12 foot lumber or pipe hanging out the back. Don't like the 18mpg burning gasoline part, although it is the LEV model (low emissions vehicle).

For under $75k I could have the Ranger converted to an EV, so that's the economics of it for me anyway.

Competition in theory lowers prices - so pretty soon the Ford Lightning will have some healthy competition - they won't have a monopolist's pricing ability anymore. They were unable or unwilling to mass-produce an entry level Lightning and corner the potential market for EV pickups.

One rational business response to competition is to lower the price and gain a market share advantage that way. Ford is about selling hundreds of thousands of trucks, not about selling 11k high-performance cars a year like Ferrari after all.

I don't think they are going to have much time to get with the program. The demand is high now and other manufacturers will move to take advantage of that opportunity as fast as they can.

One would think as Ford gears up to mass produce the Lightning, the supply increase will also lower the price. Lightnings are pickup trucks, not diamonds (or oil) largely controlled by a cartel.

So I see no reason to believe that Ford will not have to lower the Lightning price going forward for all of the reasons I and others have mentioned.

 

[luebri]

A few things.

1) You assume the competition can actually get to market anytime soon.

2) If they cant get to market soon. Inflation being what it is right now, the longer to market the less likely they can undercut and push Ford to drop their price. For now everyone should be thrilled if they just hold the price for a while after the recent price bumps. We might have 15% inflation before any of these "Affordable EV Trucks" actually get to market.

3) The vast vast majority of truck sales that are the Crew Cab (super crew) size. Ford is focusing on most important and highest volume cab size for the initial offering. I would guess we are years away from Ford EV Truck with multiple Cab sizes.

4) Is there any recent precedent of one the "Detroit automakers" that have dropped MSRP on any vehicle. EV or ICE. ?



Regarding the competition... it's not really there.

Chevy

The Silverado EV Work Truck starts at USD 39.9k MSRP & arrives in Spring 2023

The Silverado near $40k... is not coming out in 2023. ( If at all )

https://tfltruck.com/2022/11/news-s...74800-but-lower-price-trucks-will-come-later/



Nissan
It would be Nissan Frontier EV, not a TITAN EV. Which is probably smart if true, Nissan has a long EV history and the Frontier has been more successful than the Titan. That said, if they are currently "considering" how long until the reveal event? Then you are about 2 years out once that happens. If Ford was 18 months, and Chevy if they hit their summer target will have needed 18 months after reveal event.

Nissan is now considering an EV pickup - eliminating the TITAN ICE. The article states it would be Mid-size truck.

RAM
RAM only has a concept truck. They are years out before they are to market.


TESLA
Tesla - They are hoping to start a slow ramp late this year and Elon has already stated they are modifying the prices that were originally revealed.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

I think the ultimate deciding factor is how long Tesla is going to hold this price drop. If it's only a temporary "sale", I don't think it'll cause other manufacturer's to panic and drop prices. Especially since demand can't be met. But if Tesla's lower prices stick around around for the rest of the year and they show signs of holding the lower price, competition will be forced to follow.

 

[Roy2001]

A few things.

1) You assume the competition can actually get to market anytime soon.

2) If they cant get to market soon. Inflation being what it is right now, the longer to market the less likely they can undercut and push Ford to drop their price. For now everyone should be thrilled if they just hold the price for a while after the recent price bumps. We might have 15% inflation before any of these "Affordable EV Trucks" actually get to market.

3) The vast vast majority of truck sales that are the Crew Cab (super crew) size. Ford is focusing on most important and highest volume cab size for the initial offering. I would guess we are years away from Ford EV Truck with multiple Cab sizes.

4) Is there any recent precedent of one the "Detroit automakers" that have dropped MSRP on any vehicle. EV or ICE. ?



Regarding the competition... it's not really there.

Chevy


The Silverado near $40k... is not coming out in 2023. ( If at all )

https://tfltruck.com/2022/11/news-s...74800-but-lower-price-trucks-will-come-later/



Nissan
It would be Nissan Frontier EV, not a TITAN EV. Which is probably smart if true, Nissan has a long EV history and the Frontier has been more successful than the Titan. That said, if they are currently "considering" how long until the reveal event? Then you are about 2 years out once that happens. If Ford was 18 months, and Chevy if they hit their summer target will have needed 18 months after reveal event.




RAM
RAM only has a concept truck. They are years out before they are to market.


TESLA
Tesla - They are hoping to start a slow ramp late this year and Elon has already stated they are modifying the prices that were originally revealed.

Total number of people who would spend 80-90k for 300 mile range truck is limited.

And the recession is coming. Apparently you forgot this, otherwise Tesla won't slash prices.

 

[F150ROD]

This whole Tesla slashed prices should be looked at as Tesla stopped being greedy and priced their cars back to where they were pre gas price hike.

There are plenty of Tesla's in inventory right now, I think they hype has started to wear off.....or people are waiting on the Cybertruck which they won't get until 202.

Again, Fords bread and butter isn't with EV's, they still sell plenty of ICE here and around the world, where Tesla has one thing they offer and cant afford to have sales fall off. Not to mention Fords Fleet sales.

 

[luebri]

This whole Tesla slashed prices should be looked at as Tesla stopped being greedy and priced their cars back to where they were pre gas price hike.

There are plenty of Tesla's in inventory right now, I think they hype has started to wear off.....or people are waiting on the Cybertruck which they won't get until 202.

Again, Fords bread and butter isn't with EV's, they still sell plenty of ICE here and around the world, where Tesla has one thing they offer and cant afford to have sales fall off. Not to mention Fords Fleet sales.

@Roy2001

Exactly Tesla is a different animal.

A) they have more flexibility to change pricing with Musk at the helm not a stodgy room of board members beholden to stock holders. Which is why I asked for precedent of any of the Detroit 3 dropping MSRP much less doing it in any matter near in timeframe from a recent Price hike!?!?

B) All of Teslas models are very stale. There are only so many people that want to buy ugly Dodge Neon look alike EV. They need to get cybertruck to market desperately. Plus they were running much larger margins than traditional auto makers due to their vertical integration so they had room to slash prices

C) The tax changes have tesla scrambling to entice buyers that are tempted to wait until the dust settles in the government caused mess.

D) Tesla (Y and 3) pricing could maybe affect Mach E pricing, as They are at least in the same market. The lightning is however in a very different market and it’s only competitor right now and for the near future is Rivian and lightning is a much better value.

E) this impending apocalyptic recession had been predicted in the news for the last year. Yes, the market is softening but I am not naive enough to believe that Ford management did not properly weigh that into their recent pricing decisions.

F) ford is not trying to sell 600,000 lightnings annually like ice F150s. They are trying to ramp to 150k annual rate by EOY 2023. So yes there are a limits of people that will buy lariats or platinums but last I checked there are a lot of Denalis, RAM Limiteds or Longhorns, Raptors and TRx’s out there that all are in that price point so there will still be a good chunk that still will.

G) ford may need to ramp up supply of XLT and PRO models vs the premium models. That will be the only “price decrease” and maybe some dealer incentives.

Summary: hear me loud and clear MSRP is not dropping on these trucks. Sorry for the optimistic amongst you that are trying to rationalize it to existence. It’s not happening. For you though… I hope I’m wrong.

 

[LUXMAN]

@Roy2001

Exactly Tesla is a different animal.

A) they have more flexibility to change pricing with Musk at the helm not a stodgy room of board members beholden to stock holders. Which is why I asked for precedent of any of the Detroit 3 dropping MSRP much less doing it in any matter near in timeframe from a recent Price hike!?!?

B) All of Teslas models are very stale. There are only so many people that want to buy ugly Dodge Neon look alike EV. They need to get cybertruck to market desperately. Plus they were running much larger margins than traditional auto makers due to their vertical integration so they had room to slash prices

C) The tax changes have tesla scrambling to entice buyers that are tempted to wait until the dust settles in the government caused mess.

D) Tesla (Y and 3) pricing could maybe affect Mach E pricing, as They are at least in the same market. The lightning is however in a very different market and it’s only competitor right now and for the near future is Rivian and lightning is a much better value.

E) this impending apocalyptic recession had been predicted in the news for the last year. Yes, the market is softening but I am not naive enough to believe that Ford management did not properly weigh that into their recent pricing decisions.

F) ford is not trying to sell 600,000 lightnings annually like ice F150s. They are trying to ramp to 150k annual rate by EOY 2023. So yes there are a limits of people that will buy lariats or platinums but last I checked there are a lot of Denalis, RAM Limiteds or Longhorns, Raptors and TRx’s out there that all are in that price point so there will still be a good chunk that still will.

G) ford may need to ramp up supply of XLT and PRO models vs the premium models. That will be the only “price decrease” and maybe some dealer incentives.

Summary: hear me loud and clear MSRP is not dropping on these trucks. Sorry for the optimistic amongst you that are trying to rationalize it to existence. It’s not happening. For you though… I hope I’m wrong.

OMG!! " ugly Dodge Neon look alike EV " !!!
Love it and I own one!

People also forget that Tesla does not have huge numbers of Pensions weighing them down.

I agree MSRP wont be coming down in a meaningful way on the Lightning, but there may be incentives coming soon.
This is like taxes, once they are there, they are there. They may move around, they may hide for a bit, but they are always there. FOr a company like FORD to reduce that MSRP would require extreme market forces that they cant control and gives them an out. They cant let TESLA be the cause of the price drop.

Maybe dealers will negotiate but not until things get real bad and someone actually offers an alternative "en masse". Like the Tesla Cyber-truck or Chevy Silverado.

 

[GDN]

@Roy2001

Exactly Tesla is a different animal.

...

B) All of Teslas models are very stale. There are only so many people that want to buy ugly Dodge Neon look alike EV. They need to get cybertruck to market desperately. Plus they were running much larger margins than traditional auto makers due to their vertical integration so they had room to slash prices

....

So many speculations that none of us know the answer to, but I still think the Model 3 is one of the best looking cars out there. Just my opinion. The bad news for the others is that the Model 3 and Y already have better and faster hardware than anyone else and just yesterday Tesla has announced HW 4.0, their next version. First in the Cybertruck, but as soon as they are ramped you can rest assured it will be in the other cars.

The 3 is also running around in disguise with a facelift coming soon.

They are just sitting by waiting to see who will come along as a real competitor.

 

[luebri]

So many speculations that none of us know the answer to, but I still think the Model 3 is one of the best looking cars out there. Just my opinion. The bad news for the others is that the Model 3 and Y already have better and faster hardware than anyone else and just yesterday Tesla has announced HW 4.0, their next version. First in the Cybertruck, but as soon as they are ramped you can rest assured it will be in the other cars.

The 3 is also running around in disguise with a facelift coming soon.

They are just sitting by waiting to see who will come along as a real competitor.

Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for Tesla and Mr. Musk. The Lightning doesnt exist without him, but what Tesla is doing has little to no effect on Lightning pricing.

Fact of the matter is the Lightning is the only Full size Pickup EV to market (Rivian is not full size). Tesla has only provided a Vaporware Spaceship Flavored EV Pickup. It will get to market but it is 2 years from meaningful volume. Ford is the only one in the market that has a real Full size pickup EV out. That is just fact. Also Fact is the Pickup truck market is the biggest vehicle market in the U.S. Ford has the EV Pickup high ground, so no need to drop MSRP.

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