Did Ford Change My Usable Battery Capacity to 135 kWh?

[Maquis]

Look up Occam's razor. Your theory that Ford has increased available capacity of your battery based on two data points skips a few logical steps.

@Maquis reasoning is well thought out and simple. Not to mention his reputation here as a reliable source of good information. I'm going with his theory until he's proven wrong.

To be fair, I did state that I was giving an opinion. I don’t know for certain what is causing his phenomenon.

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[TaxmanHog]

Lately I have noticed that if I charge to 100%, it takes several miles of driving to drop to 99%. (Lariat ER with 16,000 miles and maybe 20 DCFC charges) So this morning I decided to record my drive to see what's up.

Several weeks ago I did a similar test, I got 10.5 miles before dropping from 100% to 99%, also observed the same total trip value anomalies, a pleasant surprise. [Update 6.5.0]

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Look up Occam's razor. Your theory that Ford has increased available capacity of your battery based on two data points skips a few logical steps.

@Maquis reasoning is well thought out and simple. Not to mention his reputation here as a reliable source of good information. I'm going with his theory until he's proven wrong.

Thank you Henry, but I do not need to look up Occam’s Razor to tell you that it does not apply. I do have a doctorate in the scientific field. Perhaps you should look up condescending.

Occam’s Razor applies to observed data not supposition. I presented some data points and some personal observations. You are trying to apply the rule to someone’s second guessing of my (somewhat) scientific observations, while calling it “reasoning.” The second guessing was actually wrong, in the temperature department and in the rounding error department. Doesn’t apply.

I observed something. I quantified it. Now Taxmanhog says he observed the same thing. Not sure what logical steps I skipped.

Just looking for the simplest explanation to my observations. Where have I heard that before?

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Ford did this so that you can go to 110% on the reactor.

Is that like turning it up to 11? I'm down with that.

 

[KennyB123]

Also noticed 10 or so miles before dropping to 99 recently.

Hmm... 1000 mile range if it continued that way. How insane would that be!?

 

[Ffxdude]

I haven't charged to 100 in a while, so I haven't experienced this. However I've been noticing that the displayed SOC and the SOC readings have about 5% difference between them, with the displayed SOC being higher.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

I haven't charged to 100 in a while, so I haven't experienced this. However I've been noticing that the displayed SOC and the SOC readings have about 5% difference between them, with the displayed SOC being higher.

What is the source of the readings—the ones not from the display? …and is this a new observation?

 

[Ffxdude]

What is the source of the readings—the ones not from the display? …and is this a new observation?

It's from my OBD and Forscan. Been this way since I got the OBD dongle last fall. This was a screenshot from Dec:

 

[Henry Ford]

Thank you Henry, but I do not need to look up Occam’s Razor to tell you that it does not apply. I do have a doctorate in the scientific field. Perhaps you should look up condescending.

I'm well aware I was being condescending. You dismissed @Maquis out of hand, your theory is Ford released battery capacity without as much as a release note much less a press release. His theory seems more grounded in reality than yours.

Occam’s Razor applies to observed data not supposition. I presented some data points and some personal observations. You are trying to apply the rule to someone’s second guessing of my (somewhat) scientific observations, while calling it “reasoning.” The second guessing was actually wrong, in the temperature department and in the rounding error department. Doesn’t apply.

Really? You know how Ford calculates the whole number battery percentage that displays on the instrument display? You know that the temperature battery temperature or ambient temperature didn't change over 30+ miles of driving?

I observed something. I quantified it. Now Taxmanhog says he observed the same thing. Not sure what logical steps I skipped.

You made two observations during the same drive and hypothesized Ford released battery capacity without telling anyone.

Just looking for the simplest explanation to my observations. Where have I heard that before?

You made two observations on one drive and the simplest explanation is that Ford released battery capacity? I think the simplest explanation is there are dozens of variables that affect what your SOC will display at any given time. @Maquis pointed out a few and you dismissed his opinion. I realize I was harsh. It rubbed me wrong.

 

[Henry Ford]

To be fair, I did state that I was giving an opinion. I don’t know for certain what is causing his phenomenon.

Your opinion makes more sense than anything else I've read on this thread.

 

[wighty]

I haven't charged to 100 in a while, so I haven't experienced this. However I've been noticing that the displayed SOC and the SOC readings have about 5% difference between them, with the displayed SOC being higher.

I assumed the SOC sensor is trying to give you a better idea of the total charge, usable + reserve (so for SR 98 kWh vs 107.6 kWh... for ER 131 kWh vs 143.3 kWh), whereas the "SOC Display" is trying to just show you the usable battery charge.

 

[Jim Lewis]

Occam's Razor:

This philosophical razor advocates that when presented with competing hypotheses about the same prediction and both theories have equal explanatory power one should prefer the hypothesis that requires the fewest assumptions[3] and that this is not meant to be a way of choosing between hypotheses that make different predictions.

Source: Occam's razor - Wikipedia

Occam's razor applies to theories or hypotheses applied to data points. Just saying you're talking about data points without any theory or hypothesis doesn't make sense. It'd just be numbers without any interpretation. An interpretation of data points is a hypothesis.

A very famous scientist with whom I had some passing acquaintance, Sydney Brenner, used to jokingly refer to Occam's razor as "Occam's broom," sweeping under the rug inconvenient unique, perhaps telling observations that don't agree with your theory: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/05/obituaries/sydney-brenner-dead.html

A very handy Android app that I've used for many years, AcuBattery, doesn't consider any determination of Li-ion battery capacity done over less than 20% charge range reliable. It recommends a full discharge/recharge cycle as the most reliable. It will preserve a history of partial discharge/recharge cycles (>20%, IIRC) and estimate your average Android phone battery capacity over the time span since you last cleared battery history. The other interesting thing about the app is that it claims recharging at lower states of charge has less effect on long-term battery lifespan than at higher states of charge. It claims charging up to 57% causes only ~1/10th of the degradation as routinely charging to 100% for the same equivalent full charge cycles. You can set the degree of recharge you want, and it will tell you the equivalent wear cycle that your battery will supposedly endure. The app has lots of scientific literature citations behind the devs' methodology. Unfortunately, you can't have the app cease phone charging at the desired limit. You just get an alarm and notification.

Don't know how well-founded the AcuBattery stuff is, but I usually only charge my Galaxy Note 8 up to 57% SOC. According to AcuBattery, my Note 8 still has about 98% of its original battery capacity after 7 years of use - the first 3 or 4, very heavy use before I switched to an iPhone for my hearing aids. I also avoid anything that makes my Note 8 red hot, which Samsung phones seem prone to compared to an iPhone.

Would be great if the same charging scheme had applicability to charging the Lightning. At the May 2022 Lightning Experience Show at the Pearl in San Antonio, I asked the most knowledgeable tech representative I could find about long-term degradation over different points in the charge curve, and the guy I spoke to said as far as he knew, Ford hadn't looked into it.

Maybe @MickeyAO would care to offer an opinion on AcuBattery's methodology?

1st Screenshot: Only Charging up to 57% SOC.

Second Screenshot: Charging to 100% SOC.

 

[Ffxdude]

I assumed the SOC sensor is trying to give you a better idea of the total charge, usable + reserve (so for SR 98 kWh vs 107.6 kWh... for ER 131 kWh vs 143.3 kWh), whereas the "SOC Display" is trying to just show you the usable battery charge.

Could be, I can’t get the maths to line up though...taking the pic I posted as an example. I had 86.332 kwh left. So that should be 66% of 131 kWh or 60% of 143.3 kWh? Yet it shows 73% SOC

 

[wighty]

Could be, I can’t get the maths to line up though...taking the pic I posted as an example. I had 86.332 kwh left. So that should be 66% of 131 kWh or 60% of 143.3 kWh? Yet it shows 73% SOC

What are the battery temps? You aren't going to get the same amount of kWh out of the pack of the temps are low.

 

[Ffxdude]

What are the battery temps? You aren't going to get the same amount of kWh out of the pack of the temps are low.

Looks like it was 59 degrees.

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