downhill without downshifting?

[Monkey]

I get the desired effect by "feathering" the accelerator pedal in one-pedal mode. It is, in effect, an accelerator / decelerator control pedal. As you know, if you take your foot completely off the accelerator, you may hit your head on the windshield ... and/or get rear-ended by the vehicle behind you.

Uh... the regenerative braking in my Lightning, as well as the other two I've driven and the PowerBoosts with regen, is nowhere near that powerful. I wish the regen had more bite to it, because compared to what I'm used to with Tesla it's pretty weak. Lighting regen is like my Model Y regen set to low. I do get more bite in sport mode, if I remember to change drive modes and all that.

Easing my foot off the accelerator to start and then coasting on regen in most situations lets me roll right up to a stop the same as if I slowly and gently applied the brake in an ICE truck. There are many times with traffic and other idiot drivers I have to actually hit the brake pedal and that irks me.

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[Sedawk]

After reading this thread I see that the amount of people who believe that 1-pedal driving is some magical regeneration mode is too damn high. Someone mentioned that they have "never touched their brakes in a month" with 1-pedal driving. I don't 1-pedal drive, but that doesn't mean the truck is using the physical brakes all the time. I generally hit 100% all the time on the brake coach which means that the truck has recovered all the regenerative braking energy it possibly can. I use the same energy that a 1-pedal driver would.

If I take my foot off the gas in normal 2-pedal drive I'm not getting energy into the batteries, but I am also not losing speed as fast - that energy stays as momentum and keeps the truck moving forward. 1-pedal drive is taking my trucks momentum and throwing it into the battery via active regenerative braking. I have the option with 2-pedal drive to do that myself by applying some brake or deciding to keep the trucks energy as momentum.

With normal city driving with someone who is braking well (that is, high brake coach score) there is no difference in the energy savings between 1-pedal driving and 2-pedal driving. 1-pedal driving forces you to convert the truck's kinetic energy to electrical the second you take your foot off or ease off the accelerator pedal. Whereas with 2-pedal driving I have the option to convert kinetic energy to electrical by applying the brake or just keep the truck rolling forward under its own momentum.

When it comes to using your truck's energy in the most effective way, 2-pedal driving gets the nod because you have that control. Sure - there are 1-pedal drivers who feel that they can mimic coasting - but that is VERY hard because it requires a very gradual ease off on the accelerator pedal.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I think that any of the modes of driving are essentially going to have the same basic outcome, efficiency wise. But, if the physical brakes are being used, either manually, or by 1pd, itself, that is going to reduce the overall REGEN back to the battery pack since physical braking is taking away that energy savings, or taking the place of it.

Although, yes, REGEN is happening while you are braking, braking caused the loss of speed more quickly than the REGEN itself would, and therefore is robbing a slight amount of REGEN you otherwise would capture.

In the real world, though, we don't live by scientific rules, solely, we have other elements within the environment that create changes: traffic ahead causing you to have to come to a stop before REGEN would, otherwise... using 1pd when simply 'coasting' with REGEN only would suffice, etc. Many of us use SPORT mode, which, yes, means that you can really drive a LOT of your miles without EVER touching the physical brakes, but, reality states that there WILL BE some times when you HAVE to touch, or hit, your brakes.... it's inevitable.

I'll bet that no matter our disagreements, or discussions about 'which' is best, we'll all have very similar efficiencies, for the long range, in similar situations, no matter which method we prefer.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Parts of this thread remind me of when I was a kid and had to walk to school uphill both ways! Now, if I can just find the inverse place to live where it is downhill both ways, I would never have to charge my truck

 

[Sedawk]

In the real world, though, we don't live by scientific rules, solely ....

Wrong. In the real world we DO live by scientific rules solely. Period. End of Story. If you are trying to win an optimal energy transfer argument by not applying the rules of basic scientific theory you are going to have a bad time.

We don't live in the quantum world (or better said, the quantum scale) - energy is conserved and easily accounted for - these rules don't change depending on the traffic in front of me. This sentence quoted above really proves my point that people assign a mysterious energy recovery to 1-pedal driving.

If there is traffic in front on me - fine. 1-pedal braking is not going to increase the overall energy efficiency if the vehicle needs to slow more than I would when I press the brake pedal. When I press the brake pedal (2-pedal driving) when slowing gently the physical brakes are not used - that energy is recovered and is stored in the battery. If you are using sport mode and 1-pedal driving then the acceleration and regenerative braking are more aggressive - but it isn't storing more energy on the whole. In fact with every energy transfer, speeding up by applying electricity to the motors or slowing down by capturing electricity generated from the motors, there is some loss. By just coasting with 2-pedal drive I am not occurring those losses with energy transfer to the battery and back.

Look at any experienced EV reviewer - they generally love the Lighting, but are very critical of the 1-pedal tuning. It is poor. You are not being more energy efficient than a 2-pedal driver that is consistently getting +95% brake coach scores. It's even worse in sport mode.

 

[Sedawk]

Parts of this thread remind me of when I was a kid and had to walk to school uphill both ways! Now, if I can just find the inverse place to live where it is downhill both ways, I would never have to charge my truck

You just have to live on Penrose street - problem solved!

 

[Firn]

I think that any of the modes of driving are essentially going to have the same basic outcome, efficiency wise. But, if the physical brakes are being used, either manually, or by 1pd, itself, that is going to reduce the overall REGEN back to the battery pack since physical braking is taking away that energy savings, or taking the place of it.

Although, yes, REGEN is happening while you are braking, braking caused the loss of speed more quickly than the REGEN itself would, and therefore is robbing a slight amount of REGEN you otherwise would capture.

In the real world, though, we don't live by scientific rules, solely, we have other elements within the environment that create changes: traffic ahead causing you to have to come to a stop before REGEN would, otherwise... using 1pd when simply 'coasting' with REGEN only would suffice, etc. Many of us use SPORT mode, which, yes, means that you can really drive a LOT of your miles without EVER touching the physical brakes, but, reality states that there WILL BE some times when you HAVE to touch, or hit, your brakes.... it's inevitable.

I'll bet that no matter our disagreements, or discussions about 'which' is best, we'll all have very similar efficiencies, for the long range, in similar situations, no matter which method we prefer.

The physical brakes DO NOT ENGAGE simply by pressing the brake pedal. It is literally the same as getting more regen

 

[hturnerfamily]

actually, just like in ANY motor vehicle, physical brakes ARE applied AT THE MOMENT you press the brake pedal, and also the BRAKE LIGHTS immediately activate. There is no 'let's wait for REGEN before we start' scenario when applying the brakes - they work WHEN you press them.

Now, that does NOT mean that you don't also capture REGEN while the braking is occurring, yes, you do.... but it does not 'wait' for the REGEN to hit some magical number before it applies them.

REGEN happens many times without braking, but ALWAYS with braking.

 

[Firn]

actually, just like in ANY motor vehicle, physical brakes ARE applied AT THE MOMENT you press the brake pedal, and also the BRAKE LIGHTS immediately activate. There is no 'let's wait for REGEN before we start' scenario when applying the brakes - they work WHEN you press them.

Now, that does NOT mean that you don't also capture REGEN while the braking is occurring, yes, you do.... but it does not 'wait' for the REGEN to hit some magical number before it applies them.

REGEN happens many times without braking, but ALWAYS with braking.

You are literally NOT using the mechanical brakes and MANY vehicles do it that way. You are decidedly wrong in your statement.

Regen describes ANY situation when power is sent back to the battery while slowing.

 

[Sedawk]

REGEN happens many times without braking, but ALWAYS with braking.

Sorry - but here is that science thing again - you can't get away from it.

If your truck is "REGEN" as you put it - it is taking energy away from its forward momentum and transferring it to the battery. It is slowing down - also known as braking. It does not happen any other way. The second you take your foot off the gas in 1-pedal mode your brake lights come on - because you are slowing down.

Also - the physical brakes DO NOT ENGAGE automatically when you press your brake pedal on your Lightning - this shows that your understanding of the process is completely wrong. The truck does a little math (I believe either 60 or 120 times per second). It looks at how much you have pressed the brake pedal. If the motors (now acting as generators) can slow the truck down enough via regeneration then physical brakes are NOT engaged. If your brake coach score is 100% then the physical brakes are only engaged right when the truck stops - NOT before (unless you press really hard and the regenerative braking system needs some immediate help).

I'm very confused on why you would engage in this argument when you don't have a clue how the regenerative braking system on the F150 Lightning works.

 

[Firn]

Had to run some recycling so I grabbed my Obdlink MX and fired up Car Scanner.

A default screen is psi, steering angle, and brake pressure.

Confirmed that at a stop applying the brakes resulted in brake pressure going from Zero to a value that corresponds with how hard you press the brakes.

During the drive and on normal mode (also tried sport) applying the brakes did NOT result in any brake pressure, provided the regen bar was below max. Applying the brakes and taking the regen bar over max DID result in brake pressure.

I could bring the truck to almost a stop, keeping the regen at a high percent, right up until around 3mph or so where some friction brakes started to apply.

Direct measured confirmation that the mechanical brakes are NOT applied every time the brake pedal is pushed.

 

[Shawnson]

Just for fun ...
A Mechanical Engineer would conclude that the Lightning does have a transmission ... "a mechanism which transmits power from the motor to the wheels". The Munro tear-down describes "The reduction gear is a coaxial, planetary gear reduction system with a drive shaft through the center ..." So, while the "transmission" may not change gears, it does change the speed of the motor relative to the drive shaft. An Engineer would call it a single speed transmission or gearbox. And for more fun ... the 2022 Ford Lightning Technical Specifications show the motor build location as the Van Dyke Transmission Plant.

Never ever utter these words in front of someone we are trying to explain EVs to. We will curse you FOREVER

 

[Ishkatan]

When I traverse a steep hill, I set the adaptive cruise control and the truck brakes within a few miles of the setting. If it does not brake enough I simply lower the target speed.

 

[invertedspear]

I don't think there is any indicator on the user interface when friction brakes are being used by cruise control or 1PD.

Indirectly you can determine this though. If you have the power distribution up in MyView on the gauge cluster screen, you can see when regen maxes out. When it does, friction brakes start getting applied.

 

[hturnerfamily]

Let me give you my testing results, from tonight's drive, in various modes/1pd options, braking, and CRUISE:

A) 1pd is an additional 'Mode', on top of either the underlying NORMAL or SPORT Modes, BUT, in reality, it is a MODE ALL IT'S OWN: It is designed to bring the truck to a stop, when you come off the GO pedal.
This means that no matter the underlying mode, when 1pd is activated, IT WILL apply the MAXIMUM amount of REGEN, and will also IMMEDIATELY start braking.

: : the brake lights are the indication that 1pd IMMEDIATELY starts applying the brakes. It does NOT 'wait' until a certain point - it is immediate, as your brake lights will indicate.
: : the amount of REGEN that 1pd applies is the greatest amount of REGEN the truck can provide, no matter the speed. You will see this immediately when you come completely off the GO pedal. Whether 25mph, 45mph, or 65mph, the REGEN is the same in each case, and the braking to go with it. If you wish to 'customize' this amount of REGEN and braking, keep 'some' pressure on the GO pedal, or 'feather' the pedal, slowly, or as needed.

: : as above, the 'amount' of braking can be feathered by the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal. ANY amount activates the brakes, and the brake LIGHTS.
Yes, the 1pd mode 'might' apply a CONSISTENT and INCREASING amount of braking as the truck is coming to a slower speed, but the brakes are applied AT THE MOMENT 1pd is activated.
You will see this proven by your brake lights, anytime you come off the GO pedal while in 1pd mode.
You will NOT see brake lights when you come off the GO pedal when either NORMAL or SPORT mode, ALONE. No braking is activated since only REGEN is applied by these modes.

B) 1pd MODE could be a 'MODE' all it's own, but since you must choose a DRIVE MODE when you put the truck in gear, or allow the NORMAL mode to default as the Drive Mode, you have to then ADD the optional 1pd ACTIVATION to either of these modes. 1pd is NOT an option for the other modes.

C) Choosing to use 1pd mode, or not, is really only a choice of the driver.
It does NOT create a more efficient travel, overall, over the long term, because the braking that happens automatically every time you come off the GO pedal is also robbing the momentum already built up.
Applying the physical brakes while in only Normal or Sport mode aren't going to create any 'better' outcomes, either, overall, over the long term.
It's really only a personal preference.

-If you like a smooth, easy drive - use NORMAL.
Very little REGEN, but You'll need to apply braking often.
-If you like a smooth drive, but more use of the GO pedal - you SPORT.
Much greater REGEN, and You'll use the brake pedal a LOT less often.

-If you like an AUTOMATED slowing and braking almost ALWAYS - add 1pd to either of those.

-If you like a blending of SPORT and NORMAL, use TOW HAUL mode. It doesn't matter whether you are towing, or not, it's just a blend of those two modes - middle of the road REGEN.

CRUISE CONTROL:

Interestingly, when in CRUISE CONTROL, you are effectively telling the truck to manage ALL driving speed, braking, and REGEN, all on it's own.

Your DRIVE MODE does not matter while on CRUISE CONTROL. You are allowing the truck to control this.

Your 1pd choice does not matter while on CRUISE CONTROL. You are allowing the truck to decide when to REGEN(slow) or STOP, if traffic ahead dictates.

Now, if you apply the BRAKES yourself, while cruise is active, you are effectively turning OFF Cruise Control, and your underlying Drive Mode, or 1pd option, will dictate how the truck responds when you then come off the brake pedal, and until you reactive Cruise Control.

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