Farley believes he knows how to beat the Chinese on EVs

[hajalie24]

One reason I liked the lightning is it really is a brute forced EV with a giant battery to compensate. I had a feeling they will change it up on the next refresh in a way that's worse for me.

If Ford wanted to sell these better they should not have tried to price gouge at the launch. It made me not even interested for at least a year, and I still see comments on EV forums from uninformed users that Lightnings are too expensive

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[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

One reason I liked the lightning is it really is a brute forced EV with a giant battery to compensate. I had a feeling they will change it up on the next refresh in a way that's worse for me.

If Ford wanted to sell these better they should not have tried to price gouge at the launch. It made me not even interested for at least a year, and I still see comments on EV forums from uninformed users that Lightnings are too expensive

I "wanted one" from the initial release date, but had to wait for the high prices and over MSRP thing to come and go. Now with so many sitting on the dealer's lots, there is finally a buyer's market.
I was able to find lots of 2024's still on the dealer lots in January 2025...making it finally time to negotiate.
Ford can complain about the Trucks 'not selling' but the fact is they over produced, and drove the price down.
I would say - "Mr Farley, you and your team have built a really solid amazing product in the Lightning."
I hope they focus on the next battery technology (solid state?) and continue with the amazing featrures this truck offers.
I am NOT missing the $140/week stops at a gas station AT ALL.

 

[HOTAS]

EREV’s are essentially PHEV’s.
Chevy’s Volt was the first real mainstream implementation. Great car, but a sales failure according to GM.
The people that owned them, loved them. It had GM’s highest satisfaction rating. (Sounds like the Lightning.)
But the problem is the people who DIDN’T buy it.

Because they couldn’t understand it… “If I still have to put gas in it, why charge it?” “I’m lugging a battery around wasting gas”.
“I’m lugging an engine around that could make room for bigger batteries”.
“I still have to do oil changes”. “My engine runs to keep the gas from going stail”.
GM did a terrible job marketing and advertising it. Just like Ford.
None of this is going to change.

Most PHEV owners become happy EV owners. Because it introduces them to the benefits of electric drive.
Every car maker dropped their PHEV’S in the US, except Toyota.(because they were firmly against EV.)

Now EREV’s are the answer. lol

 

[HOTAS]

I think the Lightning is awesome. Its smooth, powerful, solid and amazingly efficient (if driven conservatively) for a full size EV truck. Personally I don’t see what is holding back the Lightning from being a raging sales success.

But it was tarnished early on with crazy dealer markups that turned people off. Early lack of a solid quick charging network for travel. Stupid YouTuber’s that exploited it’s one weakness. Disappointment with the SR battery (which sb dropped, IMHO)
And stubborn resistance to a better product by the traditional full size truck buyer.

 

[potato]

Long haul towing was resolved already. It's called an ICE truck. Adding all the integration complexity and a smaller battery that goes through its cycles way faster and accomplishes what? Sorry I am sour. I just spent thousands repairing my hybrid and it's still not fixed and nobody can figure out what's wrong. Now I am getting, "well maybe you need to change the small 16kw battery for $43000 suggestion". Hybrids are nightmares to troubleshoot and repair. They are not the best of both worlds, they are the worst of both worlds with twice the chance of something going wrong. First and last hybrid for me.

That does sound like a pretty bad experience. But is that a series hybrid like the EREVs being discussed, which have the full EV drivetrain and a completely separate generator setup, or a parallel hybrid which does have the ridiculous complexity you describe? I suspect the latter. EREVs are much simpler/more modular.

Personally I think EREVs *for trucks* make a lot of sense specifically for the towing scenario. Yes 90% of the time you (we) are just putt putting around town or commuting to work, in which case you can be on battery 100% of the time. But for those few times a year you haul the RV for a few days, having that extra range in your pocket would be a life saver. You can still effectively have the ICE truck, but also the BEV for all your day to day. I do think they could be the gateway drug to going full electric for a lot of "truck people".

But that's just my opinion. The market will decide.

 

[ctuan13]

Kind of a shame because the Lightning really is an awesome truck. I suppose I’ll end up getting a Rivian next if they are still in business. Hopefully I won’t replace the Lightning for 6+ years, and who knows, maybe by then Tesla will make a normal truck looking truck.

You looked into the Scout Terra at all? They'll have both a BEV and a EREV.

 

[HOTAS]

The Chevy Volt was originally conceived as a series hybrid. GM couldn’t get it to work. They quietly morphed it into a parallel hybrid and just didn’t talk about it.
Anyone that’s owned a gas generator knows how incredibly inefficient they are, they guzzle fuel like crazy for the watts they output. That ain’t gonna change when they stuff one inside a EREV. They’re noisy as heck and vibrate too. That ain’t gonna change.
And of course there’s the exhaust pipe thing…. and the gas tank thing….
Now emissions control and EPA get involved. That’s what chocked the ICE for near two decades. And people that want EV’s are usually emissions conscious.
Every gas engine I’ve ever had, that is only used periodically, was always a royal PITA to start and maintain.

Then you start to think, this gas engine I’m lugging around could make room for a bigger battery. Viscous circle it is.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Anyone that’s owned a gas generator knows how incredibly inefficient they are, they guzzle fuel like crazy for the watts they output. That ain’t gonna change when they stuff one inside a EREV.

Yes, it is completely different scenario - in a RE application, the generator can be tuned and designed for one steady output at maximum efficiency, unlike the inefficient stand-alone generators you noted, that need react to loads, to run up and down a wide range of output to match the load you put on the generator, with resulting poor efficiency as a result.

 

[HOTAS]

Yes, it is completely different scenario - in a RE application, the generator can be tuned and designed for one steady output at maximum efficiency, unlike the inefficient stand-alone generators you noted, that need react to loads, to run up and down a wide range of output to match the load you put on the generator, with resulting poor efficiency as a result.

so, to achieve that it needs to be electronically fuel injected.
here comes all the digital controls and support. Sounds expensive.
And there‘s still the muffler and exhaust pipe thing and the gas tank thing and the EPA thing. How about a radiator and coolant for cooling.
Magically gonna stuff all that where?

Put it in the frunk? Then what do we have ? lol

An F150 power boost with a bigger battery and a smaller engine.
Oops, PHEV again nobody wants.

And the frunk was everyone’s favorite part of the Lightning !!!

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

The point was: a generator designed to suit one set point steady load (like the RE situation) can be more efficient than a traditional genny that has to contend with infinitely variable loads/conditions.

"That ain't gona change when they stuff one in a RE-EV" is an incorrect statement.

 

[HOTAS]

These manufacturers talk like they’re gonna hide a little weed-eater engine somewhere and when it comes time to tow a camper, we just pull the start cord and the battery will stay charged.
Not gonna happen. When we see how Scout Motors Implements they’re RE, all the drawbacks will be there.

 

[Bills R Electric]

"...doesn't handle heavy loads?...."

It is a Ford F150. You can't compare it to a F350.

It's payload, and towing capacity, are great.

I have had discussions with friends that have trucks, "your Lightning can't do this or that..." But they are driving a diesel F250, with an extra fuel tank.

No, it is not a long haul, diesel F250 or F350 that can go 400 miles while towing a 7000lb boat.

But it does so many other things better.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

You looked into the Scout Terra at all? They'll have both a BEV and a EREV.

No, and I’m sure by the time I’m ready to trade in there will be more options. Hell, maybe Dodge will finally make something reliable with their EV Ram

 

[Oafy44]

GM cracked the code. If their batteries don’t blow up in the next year -4.5 second/450 range - why would anyone fiddle with a small gas generator on a car. The GMs are almost 9k pounds so it seems at this point you could easily add extra range to the lightning instead of waisting time and energy on the EREV. By the time ford figures that out- another 40000 electric charging stations will be up and running on the infrastructure.

GM will have a large Cadillac EV - the IQ (already has two smaller ones) that will be the size of an expedition- which should translate to a Yukon/tahoe here in another couple years. GM went from 0-100 and very well is about to leave ford behind

if GM starts to show traction on these trucks and SUVs - you will hear Farley doing a 180 about how America wants big /powerful SUVs and truck EVs and all the sudden here/see leaks online about the next EV set up. He will just keep changing the strategy until ford fires him.

 

[Firn]

No matter how you cut it huge batteries to get mediocre ranges will never sway the towing market. Great, GM put a 200kwh battery in, now you can drive 150 miles towing instead of 100, when you tow. And as a tradeoff you had to nearly double the single most expensive part, and you get to drive a 10,000 beast around all the time.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again, an EXTERNAL range extender is what is needed. A self contained modular unit that can be mounted in the bed or on the hitch, or also mounted or incorporated into the trailer. Something you can lend, rent, or borrow.

Bev truck for when not towing, and high range when you are. Oh, and it can be integrated into your trailer and act as a range extender AND a very efficient generator. Make it duel fuel and it's even better.

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