Ford needs to let us buy the pro with extended range

[Blainestang]

The PRO is a loss-leader. Ford is using the pricing to get a foothold into the commercial electric truck business. That is why they don't want to sell the ER to normal consumers.

It's kinda like a computer printer. Sell the hardware cheap and make money on the ink. Ford is bettng they will make money in the commercial segment with their connective services.

I don't know if they literally lose money on the Pro or not, but they DEFINITELY slashed the margin to hit the $39k number. The XL is usually $3-6k less than a comparable XLT, not $13k. So, it's safe to say the Pro has much lower margin than the XLT/Lariat/Platinum.

IMO, they picked that number at the expense of margin to buy headlines and buy as much market share in commercial trucks as possible because they know that it's way easier to keep clients that they got while there's no competition than steal clients from competitors later.

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[Pioneer74]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/40696/how-ford-built-an-electric-f-150-that-can-do-real-work-for-40k

I never said the Lightning as a whole wasn't going to be profitable.

 

[Blainestang]

I have a CT reservation dispite it’s look but not because of it (it has grown on me over time though) and I agree with OP that once you are in $50K range CT is a better deal.

The PROs of the base PRO over CT for me:

• More usable bed design
• full size spare tire
• Dual motor at $40K
• a body and design that has been around (existing after market mods and easy to work on)
• Don’t have to worry about TESLA haters shooting at my door or throwing rocks at my windows.

Th PROs of CT2 over XLT at $50K

• 6.5 foot bed
• 300+ mile range
• Adjustable suspension with great ground clearance
• 3000 Ib payload
• Tesla charging network
• I expect it to be more efficient at high speed
• Glass roof
• standard bed cover
• A lot of goodies that come only as option or standard in higher trim lightening.
• I am not sure if though body and glass is a Pro or Con yet.

As is, I probably end of with a base Pro simply because it will most likely be available to me earlier.

Agreed. $32k after credit for a dual-motor Lightning Pro SR is a great deal and I can live with some downsides, like the charge rate and network and no TACC, etc.

If I have to pay $52k to get an extended range XLT ($60k minus credit), then now it's about the same price as the dual motor Cybertruck, and it's not an easy choice over the Cybertruck, anymore, for me. Or, if the tax credit goes away before I can get one, or it gets revamped and the Cybertruck gets it, too (albeit $10k vs $12.5k for the Lightning), either of those make the Cybertruck more compelling, too.

 

[sotek2345]

I have a CT reservation dispite it’s look but not because of it (it has grown on me over time though) and I agree with OP that once you are in $50K range CT is a better deal.

The PROs of the base PRO over CT for me:

• More usable bed design
• full size spare tire
• Dual motor at $40K
• a body and design that has been around (existing after market mods and easy to work on)
• Don’t have to worry about TESLA haters shooting at my door or throwing rocks at my windows.

Th PROs of CT2 over XLT at $50K

• 6.5 foot bed
• 300+ mile range
• Adjustable suspension with great ground clearance
• 3000 Ib payload
• Tesla charging network
• I expect it to be more efficient at high speed
• Glass roof
• standard bed cover
• A lot of goodies that come only as option or standard in higher trim lightening.
• I am not sure if though body and glass is a Pro or Con yet.

As is, I probably end of with a base Pro simply because it will most likely be available to me earlier.

I guess it is up to individual opinion, but to me the F150 has an actual nice interior with key controls still having physical buttons/dials. Cybertruck has an ugly austere interior (at least what we have seen, without even a gauge cluster (deal breaker for me).

Also - F150 has a steering wheel, not that silly yoke Telsa is moving towards (and that looks to be all that will be available on the Cybertruck).

 

[greenne]

So, you want Ford to make very little to no money on every PRO ER just to outsell Tesla?

I guess they'll make it up on volume.

Ford is not gonna need the PRO ER to outsell Tesla. Tesla can't compete in the commercial oriented customers and in order to get

I made a CT reservation dispite it’s look, not because of it (it has grown on me over time though) and I agree with OP that once you are in $50K range, CT is a better deal.

The PROs of the base PRO over CT1 for me:

• More usable bed design
• full size spare tire
• Dual motor at $40K
• a body and design that has been around (existing after market mods and easy to work on)
• Don’t have to worry about TESLA haters shooting at my door or throwing rocks at my windows.

Th PROs of CT2 over XLT at $50K

• 6.5 foot bed
• 300+ mile range
• Adjustable suspension with great ground clearance
• 3000 Ib payload
• holds 6 people
• Tesla charging network
• I expect it to be more efficient at high speed
• Glass roof
• standard bed cover
• No paint scratches and polishing to worry about
• If 4680 battery pans out, it may have a million mile battery.
• A lot of goodies that come only as option or standard in higher trim lightening.
• I am not sure if though body and glass is a Pro or Con yet.

As is, I probably end of with a base Pro simply because it will most likely be available to me earlier.

The BIG assumption here is the CT will remain at the same prices and same specs as has been advertised by Elon. Elon likes to change things up constantly in a big game of "bait and switch"-- price goes up, price goes down. Features get added, features get deleted.

Moreover, I have little confidence that the CT has been fully vetted in development yet. The range figures are a wag, at best.

 

[greenne]

As an aside you get to look forward to that stellar Tesla build quality...no thanks

 

[Guava]

Ford is making moves to dominate the commercial market. I seriously doubt anyone is going to buy the CT for business. Its not designed for the work environment, the look is polarizing, I am sure the aftermarket accessories limited. In addition there is no fleet type setup at Tesla, etc. The Hummer is too expensive/exclusive for most business use, and the silverado is still a ways away.

It may be early in the game, but Ford is making moves to bring in fleet/commercial buyers in droves. Outside of early EV adopters..I really don't see too much cross shopping between CT and f150 within a few years.

I've always had Chevy trucks, this will be my 1st Ford product. Very much looking forward to it. Cybertruck is ugly and stupid looking, Tesla QC and CS are horrible, well below industry standards. Hummer EV is just a status symbol. Like you said, the Silverado is a few years out. The Lightning looks great from what I've seen. I need a real, useful truck for hauling stuff. Having had a few EVs, they're excellent for daily commuting, boring as hell to drive in a spirited manner, but that's another discussion. The Lightning checks all the boxes for me, utility, looks, price.

 

[Maxx]

Ford is not gonna need the PRO ER to outsell Tesla. Tesla can't compete in the commercial oriented customers and in order to get

The BIG assumption here is the CT will remain at the same prices and same specs as has been advertised by Elon. Elon likes to change things up constantly in a big game of "bait and switch"-- price goes up, price goes down. Features get added, features get deleted.

Moreover, I have little confidence that the CT has been fully vetted in development yet. The range figures are a wag, at best.

That is a fair point but there are a lot more assumptions than that. CT is highly dependent on 4680 which is still up in the air. The use of cast that size in a truck and exoskeleton design has never been tested in the real world. There is still not a finished factory. There is a lot more with Cybertruck that is a crap shoot than just the price and there is a good chance the first year will have all kinds of issues to resolve. Anytime you get into Pre-Order reservation business with anything new, you are rolling the dice. The question is if you want to roll the dice with a company that knows trucks or a company that knows EV. Each choice has it’s own merits.

And you are correct about the range. TESLA always over estimates and they have not delivered anything in 500+ mile range yet.

 

[Blainestang]

Elon likes to change things up constantly in a big game of "bait and switch"-- price goes up, price goes down. Features get added, features get deleted.

Is this *ideal*? No. But it's relatively transparent on pricing, and the features that get added (like 170kW charging from the original 100kW charging on Model 3 SR+) usually outweigh the features that get deleted (passenger lumbar adjustment, grocery bag hooks in frunk).

And the real question is: Is the alternative, the dealership model, more transparent? And the answer is: LOL. The rebates and deals are constantly changing, too, except they're less clear. And then there's invoice vs MSRP, hidden dealer incentives, Costco discounts, X-plan, the list goes on. If you just want to pay MSRP, sure, that's easy, but in many cases, you'd be getting absolutely taken to the cleaners if you did that.

There are plenty of reasons, both specs and personal preference, to buy a Lightning over a Cybertruck. This is one of the flimsiest.

 

[greenne]

Is this *ideal*? No. But it's relatively transparent on pricing, and the features that get added (like 170kW charging from the original 100kW charging on Model 3 SR+) usually outweigh the features that get deleted (passenger lumbar adjustment, grocery bag hooks in frunk).

And the real question is: Is the alternative, the dealership model, more transparent? And the answer is: LOL. The rebates and deals are constantly changing, too, except they're less clear. And then there's invoice vs MSRP, hidden dealer incentives, Costco discounts, X-plan, the list goes on. If you just want to pay MSRP, sure, that's easy, but in many cases, you'd be getting absolutely taken to the cleaners if you did that.

There are plenty of reasons, both specs and personal preference, to buy a Lightning over a Cybertruck. This is one of the flimsiest.

I don't think so in this case. You're comparing MSRP to Tesla's hypothetical price. I think for 99% of us MSRP is what we are going to pay for the f150. For cybertruck..who knows what the "price" will be when the truck hits the market.

I don't understand the dealer hate. I don't understand how anyone thinks they are going to get a better deal when the customer has NO choice in the matter.

Yes it can be a stressful experience-- but there are dealers who feature no haggle pricing for those that don't want to deal with it For the rest of us, with a little bit of work we can save thousands over what a "fixed price" would be. I've never paid MSRP for a vehicle, I feel certain if the dealership model went away I'd pay MSRP every time.

 

[F150ROD]

The Cybertruck is going to start at $45k min. when all is said and done IF IF IF it ever comes to production.

 

[Blainestang]

I don't think so in this case. You're comparing MSRP to Tesla's hypothetical price. I think for 99% of us MSRP is what we are going to pay for the f150. For cybertruck..who knows what the "price" will be when the truck hits the market.

I noted that the Cybertruck's final price may be higher than the Nov. 2019 announcement way back in post #3 in this thread:

I don't understand the dealer hate. I don't understand how anyone thinks they are going to get a better deal when the customer has NO choice in the matter.

Yes it can be a stressful experience-- but there are dealers who feature no haggle pricing for those that don't want to deal with it For the rest of us, with a little bit of work we can save thousands over what a "fixed price" would be. I've never paid MSRP for a vehicle, I feel certain if the dealership model went away I'd pay MSRP every time.

I'm not saying it's impossible to get a good deal. I'm confident I've gotten some good deals on cars in the past, like a new Focus that stickered for $16k, but we paid $9k. But the range of deals is large. Some people, with a substantial amount of work and negotiation, will get a better deal than other people. Some people will get really ripped off because they didn't do enough research.

Early Lightning orders are somewhat easier because no one is going to get a huge discount, but some dealers will try to add surprise market adjustment, or still charge big "dealer fees", and stuff like that, so now I have to research which dealer to use, try to get the deal in writing, maybe call to change my dealer in the reservation system, etc.

End of the world? Nope.

Obviously superior to Tesla's pricing? I don't think so.

 

[sotek2345]

I noted that the Cybertruck's final price may be higher than the Nov. 2019 announcement way back in post #3 in this thread:



I'm not saying it's impossible to get a good deal. I'm confident I've gotten some good deals on cars in the past, like a new Focus that stickered for $16k, but we paid $9k. But the range of deals is large. Some people, with a substantial amount of work and negotiation, will get a better deal than other people. Some people will get really ripped off because they didn't do enough research.

Early Lightning orders are somewhat easier because no one is going to get a huge discount, but some dealers will try to add surprise market adjustment, or still charge big "dealer fees", and stuff like that, so now I have to research which dealer to use, try to get the deal in writing, maybe call to change my dealer in the reservation system, etc.

End of the world? Nope.

Obviously superior to Tesla's pricing? I don't think so.

Hopefully we can all work together collectively and just walk away from the dealers that play games like that. Nothing like voting with your feet.

 

[Maxx]

I don't think so in this case. You're comparing MSRP to Tesla's hypothetical price. I think for 99% of us MSRP is what we are going to pay for the f150. For cybertruck..who knows what the "price" will be when the truck hits the market.

I don't understand the dealer hate. I don't understand how anyone thinks they are going to get a better deal when the customer has NO choice in the matter.

Yes it can be a stressful experience-- but there are dealers who feature no haggle pricing for those that don't want to deal with it For the rest of us, with a little bit of work we can save thousands over what a "fixed price" would be. I've never paid MSRP for a vehicle, I feel certain if the dealership model went away I'd pay MSRP every time.

Ford does not have any contract with us to stay with that price either. But if it does stick with the pro price, it does put pressure on TESLA to stick with theirs and they have traditionally been good with their reservation holders on new vehicles getting the price they were promised. That said, they don’t have a good track record with lower trims and with inflation and part shortage, all bets could be off.

As far as dealer experience goes I am with @Blainestang . I consider TESLA’s price the best I could get from a Ford dealer under perfect circumstances but without the stress and time wasted. If I have to use an analogy, with Tesla, it is like being in a school of fish knowing when the shark is coming, no matter what I do, I will have 50% chance of being lunch, the same chance as every other fish. With Ford it feels like depending on what I do, there is a 50%-100% chance of getting stuck between his teeth. Having no choice in the matter is not always a bad thing. It is all a matter of context. And in reality there is always a choice both with Tesla and Ford until you sign the papers.

 

[Blainestang]

Hopefully we can all work together collectively and just walk away from the dealers that play games like that. Nothing like voting with your feet.

Agreed. The Bronco and Mach E forums have done a good job with that, too, and I'll absolutely post what I find out from local dealers, too. I need to ask my dealer, in fact. I don't know if they'll do markup, but I bet they're still going to want to charge their bonkers $1295 "dealer fee."

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