Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious

[RickLightning]

You summed up my situation perfectly. Buying my Lightning was the dumbest financial decision I've ever made. I always looked at vehicles as depreciating assets, bought low, and ran them into the ground. But even my ICE-loving sons encouraged me. I'm retired, could afford it, and it will probably be the last vehicle I ever buy. But not many are in that position. Certainly not enough to make a whole industry healthy.

We have friends that are similar age, made good money. Their house is significantly smaller than ours. They have one modern vehicle (i.e. years old), and one that is a piece of crap, filthy inside and out, that the husband uses. They are big into the environment, in fact one is a professor focused on issues related to the environment. Both are into clean power. Tried to get them to consider replacing one vehicle with a Mach-E, she drives to work and has free charging there. They thanked us for the information. Spending this kind of money on cars, or homes, isn't something they have any interest in.

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[F150ROD]

Other than pure acceleration, I still don’t get the value of an EV over an ICE truck? Acceleration and torque is insane and addictive but not spending $60k for it. At $40k-$7.5k, I was willing to write a check but if I want a daily driver that checks all the boxes, hard to argue buying an EV vs a Powerboost.

pls educate me if I am missing something

The suspension and handling is different also, the Lightning is superior in every way to the 21 XLT EB I had. $30k Superior, No.

But in my case, the fill up for the EB was $125 every 3 days a tank with lower Gas prices back then. With the Lightning it’s $66 for 5 days. But again, it’s like paying for Gas up front.

I think the attraction to EV’s is the smoothness of driving, you don’t worry about gear changes, heat soak for Turbos, it’s essentially get in and drive. At the same time it has several compromises depending on use.

 

[mme_and_lightning]

I never hear anyone whine about a 2 million dollar personal airplane, or a 125K Corvette.

Makes me think that whiners don't like EV cars. I don't care, I got a life to live.

I'm sure many horse and buggy owners looked at the Model T and said: "I don't like it."

Do you think gas stations were every block for the early Model T owners? I bet that they did not justify to others, they just let the whiners whine about it.

 

[Zprime29]

Agree with others in that price is the #1 driver for adoption right now. Would love to see some small sporty EV coupes come out. They wouldn't need a huge battery (big driver on cost), easier to make efficient, and would be great fun for local commuting.

 

[sotek2345]

Agree with others in that price is the #1 driver for adoption right now. Would love to see some small sporty EV coupes come out. They wouldn't need a huge battery (big driver on cost), easier to make efficient, and would be great fun for local commuting.

Not a coupe, but you just described the Mini EV.

 

[sotek2345]

The suspension and handling is different also, the Lightning is superior in every way to the 21 XLT EB I had. $30k Superior, No.

Depends on how you calculate that $30k. How much do you think it would cost to increase the performance of that 21 XLT to match the Lightning (acceleration and handling) using aftermarket parts? I bet it isn't far off from that $30k.

 

[F150ROD]

Depends on how you calculate that $30k. How much do you think it would cost to increase the performance of that 21 XLT to match the Lightning (acceleration and handling) using aftermarket parts? I bet it isn't far off from that $30k.

With an EB probably. But a Coyote with Whipple you are close, but then you have to dial it in, deal with all sorts of issues etc etc etc.

 

[hturnerfamily]

My view on the current state of EVs sales is this: Tesla has proved the model - EVs DO sell. What the legacy makers are dealing with is totally different. They don't have the luxury of only focusing on EVs.
But, I don't think that's the biggest 'negative' to potential customers reaching that EV buying decision point: it's about charging. They just don't 'believe', at least yet, that you can just hop in your EV and go anywhere you wish anytime you want. That's is just a pure STOPPING point for way too many.
Charging is also an issue at home... as in 'how' do I install this special outlet, or 'where' can I install it, or 'will' my apartment complex have somewhere for me to plug in. Charging while traveling is still, well, the wild, wild west, in my opinion. Yes, I have well over 34,000 miles on my Pro in a few short 14 months, and I know I can 'deal' with the issues - MOST CANNOT.

If 'regular' EVs had the ability to charge like Tesla's do, I believe you'd have your answer, or at least a large part of it. Those buying a truck, well ANY truck, price is probably not the hold up. Anyone contemplating a 'low cost' EV, well, there's the BOLT. And, it works. Good Luck.

 

[luebri]

This isn't a valid comparison. You are looking at the broad statement that Ford loses money on every EV sold, and attributing that loss to one incremental EV sold. Ford's Model e division loses $X dollars this year, next year, ... The incremental loss or profit to produce one more vehicle is nowhere near $20k.

Fair point. That said, the overall point I am making is still valid. I dont know what the exact numbers are but the bottom line is for a publicly traded company that desperately needs to turn their stock price around they are in a "next quarter" mindset right now and the facts are every ICE truck sold is dramatically more profitable then every Lightning sold.

 

[luebri]

This is the main issue. Much of it isn't even the interest rate, it's the PAYMENT size.

First, I agree with everything you said in your post about fiscal responsibility, etc....

However, I personally think the discussion around payment size, interest rate etc really missed the mark of the article / Ford's EV problem.

The reason I say, that.... Interest rates affect ICE Pickup trucks just the same. Ford, GM, Stellantis are still pumping out trucks like crazy and many many of them are in the same price range as the Lightning. They have hit an early adopter wall with the Lightning, and need to find a way to break through it. My belief, is they should be educating/selling the benefits which Im not sure the dealers really want to or are capable (educated enough) of doing.

A similar equipped ICE Lariat would actually cost me more than my Lightning did after the Tax Rebate.

This quote from the article kind of says it... its not that Vehicles aren't selling, its that the customers are voting and right now they are not picking EV's at the rate many thought they would.

"The customer is going to decide what the volumes are,” Lawler said. “Ford is able to balance production of gas, hybrid and electric vehicles to match the speed of EV adoption in a way that others can’t."

 

[Zprime29]

Not a coupe, but you just described the Mini EV.

I'm thinking more in line of a Subaru BRZ, Audi TT, Nissan Z, etc...

 

[sotek2345]

I'm thinking more in line of a Subaru BRZ, Audi TT, Nissan Z, etc...

I know, I love coupes and completely get it. I was just listing the closest thing I have seen so far.

 

[DanielM92563]

Maybe it’s political and a big FU to the current administration after president Biden joined the UAW workers at the picket line. Well… maybe not, too big of a financial decision. But if they are looking at major pay raises for their workers it may be a way for Ford to tighten its belt.

 

[hls811]

Since we are talking about why EVs aren't "taking off" I'll throw my opinion out there. EVs are too complicated for the average consumer. 50 different charging speeds. You need to have an app so you can set your maximum charging level, your departure time, plan a trip, whatever. Window sticker says 240 miles of range, but I'm only supposed to charge to 90% so that's 216 miles of range, better not get on the highway or that is going to knock you down to about 185. Better stop at the fast charger. Where is it? Does it work? Is there a line? Which one of these plugs do I need? Ok I know which plug I need, but should I go to the one labeled 60kw? 150kw? 350kw? Oh man, do I need to pull in or back in? Left parking spot or right? This charger has a ridiculously short cable so I better make sure I am close enough. Ok I'm plugged in can I just swipe my credit card and charge? No way buddy better download one of a dozen different apps and activate the charge. Ohh man this is going to take 30 minutes, I better run to McDonalds but I hope I'm not gone too long because then I'll be holding up the charger.

Probably doesn't seem like too much to all of us here, but what about your mom or even your grandma? What about the 90% of people that have no interest in knowing anything about how their cars work at all? It has to be made simpler so every one can manage without a hassle.

Stop pushing 32, 48, or 80 amp at home charging. You can run a 20 amp 240v circuit on 12/2 Romex that tons of people already have run to garage outlets or outside outlets. Change a breaker and outlet(s) and you can charge at 16 amps. Seems slow when you say it takes 30 hours to charge from 0 to 100 but you don't charge from 0 to 100 except for very rare circumstances. At 16 amps you can charge 100 miles of range in a Lightning in a 12 hour overnight and 150-200 miles other more average EVs.

EVs are a bad choice for frequent maybe even occasional medium to long distance towing. Stop pretending anything else is true. Here's the thing, most people don't tow, and most people that do tow don't tow long distances. If you have an RV or a car hauling business don't buy an EV.

Stop emphasizing subscription services on EVs. People already have this idea that big brother can somehow control your EV better than they can an ICE vehicle. As if their car can run without a computer and OnStar hasn't been out with commercials of them disabling vehicles in the middle of a car chase for 20 years. Instead emphasize the flexibility of fueling an EV, you can charge at home from the grid, you can charge at home from solar, you can charge on the road, you can even charge from a gasoline generator if it comes right down to it. In an apocalypses/doomsday situation you are going to have a lot better chance at making you own electricity than you are at making your own gasoline, I assure you.

TLDR: Stop treating EVs like they are some kind of super special future spaceships and treat them like cars while focusing on making them easy for my grandma to use.

I agree with you completely... I have an Mach-E and am going to be replacing it with the Lightning that I have on order, and the one question everyone asks is about charging.. How long does it take? "Well, if you're home its X hours usually, but if you're on a road trip and find fast charging its only X" - But you have to pay to get X while at home, because if you just plug into your house outlet then its just not really useful..." And thats where they just give up. I think standard 400+ mile range and/or 15 minute charging stops is sort of the breakpoint where the average person will think an EV is doable (and the infrastructure in place to support that).

I end up wrapping up every conversation with - Most families aren't ready to go full EV, you'll probably still want a gas car in the driveway, but using one as a commuter car is awesome.

Me personally, I'd have a really hard time going back to an ICE vehicle, and I'd love my wifes car to be a plug in hybrid, but realistically, even that isn't totally worth it when the range is 20-ish miles on the battery. A PHEV with 75-100 range would be ideal.

A good part of early adopters adopted already, theres some which will keep that car for a while - and then theres me is locked into the ecosystem and now wants to upgrade. While, I'd of course prefer them to be cheaper, a standard range XLT isn't all that overpriced to me (and I'd only get an XLT because I WANT cloth seats again, and after 2+ years of using the full touchscreen, I want knobs again.

All that being said, I'm hoping for another price cut/rebate before my truck gets delivered in January/February (Hopefully, maybe).

 

[Lytning]

Toyota and Lexus "dragging their feet" on a rapid and massive conversion to BEV's is looking brilliant right about now. And we have likely not hit the peak of interest rates and inflation, or the bottom of an economic recession.

Ford had a fairly poor reputation for quality and reliability prior to their EV's ... and then it got worse, even for ICE vehicles. It seems another Ford recall, CSP or TSB comes out every week, sometimes involving tens or hundreds of thousands of vehicles. The dealership service departments are swamped. Mine has 400 vehicles parked in the service lot waiting for parts and technician availability. If you build high quality reliable vehicles, you don't have many recalls, CSP's, TSB's, or swamped dealership service departments. And, people line up to buy your vehicles, even if they are a bit more expensive.

All my family and friends who are aware of the HV battery and other reliability / quality issues with my Lightning are completely fearful of buying an EV at this time. I sure hope Ford is doing much, much more quality and reliability testing for the next generation BEV vehicles, or it is likely to be an even deeper money pit.

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