Inability to add pre-existing PV array to the Ford Home Integration System

[LightningDoug]

All electric 3100 sq/ft N Texas homeowner here, on a well with two HVACs and a pool. We own a 15.2 kW ground mounted Solar Array (installed in 2014 - 63 panels with microprocessors which produces ~60% of our power). We have wanted battery back-up since the Feb '21 Texas freeze/near grid failure, but balked at the cost. I am not interested in a generator.

Along comes news of Ford with their bidirectional charging with Ford/Sunrun's Home Integration System: "A Ford Lightning is like getting 10 Tesla walls for the cost of 8... so that it's like getting the truck free" was how one EV article put it. We purchased our standard range '22 Lariat October 22 (1st EV), and immediately contacted Sunrun to arrange installation of the Ford Pro Charger & Home Integration System (HIS). I was a bit shocked at the $8,900 cost, but that was about the quoted cost for adding just one battery after the big ice storm, so we pushed ahead.

The system was installed over four days last week (attached picture). It was not until the last day, when they were placing the essential load breakers into the back-up panel that I learned OUR EXISTING PV ARRAY WOULD NOT INTEGRATE INTO THE HIS!

Shocking news which had never been disclosed by Sunrun nor Ford sales people despite me saying over and over how wonderful it was going to be to finally have the PV deliver power during a grid outage. Calling and e-mailing my Sunrun Coordinator has been met with silence. The only information attained was from Sunrun's installation crew manager saying that "Delta and Sunrun are working on this".

Sunrun's Ford Charging/HIS web page sure seems to imply PV will integrate into their charger/HIS. I feel terribly misled... and am very, VERY disappointed.

We do plan to add additional solar (~10kW), does anyone know if a new system with modern components can integrate into the HIS? Or is Sunrun the only PV system that could possibly be integrated?

Sunrun is silent - has anyone else run into this SUPRISE!?

Is there a work around?

PS: We love our Lightning!

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[Zprime29]

Solar can definitely be integrated. @tommolog has a video detailing his installation in which his solar was integrated. Note, the HIS inverter will only deliver up to 9.6kW. In Tom's video, he mentioned that his soar is split between the HIS and a secondary inverter. The secondary inverter will not work when the grid goes down.

If you are planning another 10kW in solar, that might pair well with the HIS. Tom recommends Qmerit, I chose to go through them for my upcoming FCSP install. I'm happy so far and will likely use them again when I figure out what I want to do for a back up solution.

Communication is severely lacking in many industries today. Hopefully they can set things straight for you soon.

 

[Labs4Lightning]

All electric 3100 sq/ft N Texas homeowner here, on a well with two HVACs and a pool. We own a 15.2 kW ground mounted Solar Array (installed in 2014 - 63 panels with microprocessors which produces ~60% of our power). We have wanted battery back-up since the Feb '21 Texas freeze/near grid failure, but balked at the cost. I am not interested in a generator.

Along comes news of Ford with their bidirectional charging with Ford/Sunrun's Home Integration System: "A Ford Lightning is like getting 10 Tesla walls for the cost of 8... so that it's like getting the truck free" was how one EV article put it. We purchased our standard range '22 Lariat October 22 (1st EV), and immediately contacted Sunrun to arrange installation of the Ford Pro Charger & Home Integration System (HIS). I was a bit shocked at the $8,900 cost, but that was about the quoted cost for adding just one battery after the big ice storm, so we pushed ahead.

The system was installed over four days last week (attached picture). It was not until the last day, when they were placing the essential load breakers into the back-up panel that I learned OUR EXISTING PV ARRAY WOULD NOT INTEGRATE INTO THE HIS!

Shocking news which had never been disclosed by Sunrun nor Ford sales people despite me saying over and over how wonderful it was going to be to finally have the PV deliver power during a grid outage. Calling and e-mailing my Sunrun Coordinator has been met with silence. The only information attained was from Sunrun's installation crew manager saying that "Delta and Sunrun are working on this".

Sunrun's Ford Charging/HIS web page sure seems to imply PV will integrate into their charger/HIS. I feel terribly misled... and am very, VERY disappointed.

We do plan to add additional solar (~10kW), does anyone know if a new system with modern components can integrate into the HIS? Or is Sunrun the only PV system that could possibly be integrated?

Sunrun is silent - has anyone else run into this SUPRISE!?

Is there a work around?

PS: We love our Lightning!

I thought I read (was some time ago) that solar edge with micro inverters can not be integrated.
so possible do the delta components require a straight dc voltage to their inverter?

agree - not enough information provided to make informed decision. What happens in 5-10 years and you no longer have a lightning. Will system be open enough to use another auto brand?

 

[LightningDoug]

Solar can definitely be integrated. @tommolog has a video detailing his installation in which his solar was integrated. Note, the HIS inverter will only deliver up to 9.6kW. In Tom's video, he mentioned that his soar is split between the HIS and a secondary inverter. The secondary inverter will not work when the grid goes down.

If you are planning another 10kW in solar, that might pair well with the HIS. Tom recommends Qmerit, I chose to go through them for my upcoming FCSP install. I'm happy so far and will likely use them again when I figure out what I want to do for a back up solution.

Communication is severely lacking in many industries today. Hopefully they can set things straight for you soon.

Thanks for some good news on this issue.

Our 9 year old 15kw PV array uses 63 individual Enphase 210 microinverters on 240w panels (both manufactured in 2013) so that each panel's DC power is converted to AC at each panel to then join together into one feeder line/60 amp breaker to feed AC power into our main panel. We don't have a need for an additional inverter. A lot has changed in nine years, but the PV array continues to do what it was designed for... and since the system has paid for itself, we will continue to highly appreciate receiving "free electricity".

Of course all of this specific PV information was provided to Sunrun during the sales/contracting process, yet Sunrun never said one word about a compatibility issue. Learning that we will still not have solar backup AFTER installation seems like a huge "bait and switch".

Communication has been very problematic in all stages thus far with Sunrun. I trusted their "expertise", shame on me.

You're pointing out the 9.6kW maximum on the HIS inverter is appreciated - we'll stick to <9.6kW for a new array - and maintaining DC power input for any new array.

Ironically we did have Qmerit (Ford's recommendation) scheduled to install our FCSP, but went with Sunrun once we decided to add the HIS... again at Ford's recommendation.

I'll also reach out to Ford.

 

[viennaxmas]

The Enphase 210 do not allow for micro grid operations. The newer Enphase micro inverters can be used but you would need a full Enphase system. Enphase will release a system that supports EV's as a backup later this year (similar to what Sunrun offers).

To integrate your existing system, you may have to change the inverters. Sunrun should have checked and made sure that this works since you have specified this.

 

[LightningDoug]

I thought I read (was some time ago) that solar edge with micro inverters can not be integrated.
so possible do the delta components require a straight dc voltage to their inverter?

agree - not enough information provided to make informed decision. What happens in 5-10 years and you no longer have a lightning. Will system be open enough to use another auto brand?

I'm just digging into this but it seems micro inverter panels are incompatible & straight DC seems to be required. "Experts" at Sunrun & Ford must be aware of this and should have been honest and forthcoming. Why they didn't is confusing.

Since this is new and emerging technology, I expect to be a bit of a "guinea pig" for both the Truck and the HIS: both use users data to improve/update their systems. It is my hope that standards will be established for the many bidirectional charging capable EV's coming. I expect big changes in our transportation future.

I hope the industry will do a much better job providing accurate information so that we consumers can make informed decisions.

It seems I'll also need to dive into the consumer protection aspects of this issue.

 

[LightningDoug]

The Enphase 210 do not allow for micro grid operations. The newer Enphase micro inverters can be used but you would need a full Enphase system. Enphase will release a system that supports EV's as a backup later this year (similar to what Sunrun offers).

To integrate your existing system, you may have to change the inverters. Sunrun should have checked and made sure that this works since you have specified this.

Thanks, I have been following Enphase & the IQ8 for it's ability to act as both "sunlight backup", I'll look into it's EV support... and find an expert installer who listens to it's customer.

Sunrun didn't listen to me

 

[luebri]

The Enphase 210 do not allow for micro grid operations. The newer Enphase micro inverters can be used but you would need a full Enphase system. Enphase will release a system that supports EV's as a backup later this year (similar to what Sunrun offers).

To integrate your existing system, you may have to change the inverters. Sunrun should have checked and made sure that this works since you have specified this.

I emailed enphase inquiring about this and I was told they do not plan on releasing there bI-directional charger until the second half of 2024

 

[TaxmanHog]

Ironically we did have Qmerit (Ford's recommendation) scheduled to install our FCSP, but went with Sunrun once we decided to add the HIS... again at Ford's recommendation.

I'll also reach out to Ford.

~FORD Dealerships~ have less competence advising us on these matters than even SunRun

 

[9onmy6]

I went through the scenario with Qmerit. $1740 for install. I will see what my local electrician quotes and go from there. I assume Qmerit is just to tag a local electrician.

 

[Zprime29]

I went through the scenario with Qmerit. $1740 for install. I will see what my local electrician quotes and go from there. I assume Qmerit is just to tag a local electrician.

Seems to be, I think being associated with Qmerit gives them more credibility. When I submitted for a quote to install a 240v outlet, I was notified that a local electrician company accepted my order and I've been in direct contact with them since. I asked for it to be installed on a 100amp breaker and the correct wire so that when my FCSP arrives, all that needs to be done is to swap out the outlet with the charge station. They said no problem and it didn't even raise the cost.

 

[COrocket]

I'm definitely waiting for the Enphase bidirectional EV charger for my Lightning and skipping the Ford system since I already have an Enphase Solar array. Having your solar inverters/combiner/system controller and EV charger all built by the same company and programmed to talk to each other seems like the best shot of having the Lightning do full home backup with solar.

 

[world2steven]

Thanks for this post.

All electric 3100 sq/ft N Texas homeowner here, on a well with two HVACs and a pool. We own a 15.2 kW ground mounted Solar Array (installed in 2014 - 63 panels with microprocessors which produces ~60% of our power). We have wanted battery back-up since the Feb '21 Texas freeze/near grid failure, but balked at the cost. I am not interested in a generator.

Along comes news of Ford with their bidirectional charging with Ford/Sunrun's Home Integration System: "A Ford Lightning is like getting 10 Tesla walls for the cost of 8... so that it's like getting the truck free" was how one EV article put it. We purchased our standard range '22 Lariat October 22 (1st EV), and immediately contacted Sunrun to arrange installation of the Ford Pro Charger & Home Integration System (HIS). I was a bit shocked at the $8,900 cost, but that was about the quoted cost for adding just one battery after the big ice storm, so we pushed ahead.

The system was installed over four days last week (attached picture). It was not until the last day, when they were placing the essential load breakers into the back-up panel that I learned OUR EXISTING PV ARRAY WOULD NOT INTEGRATE INTO THE HIS!

Shocking news which had never been disclosed by Sunrun nor Ford sales people despite me saying over and over how wonderful it was going to be to finally have the PV deliver power during a grid outage. Calling and e-mailing my Sunrun Coordinator has been met with silence. The only information attained was from Sunrun's installation crew manager saying that "Delta and Sunrun are working on this".

Sunrun's Ford Charging/HIS web page sure seems to imply PV will integrate into their charger/HIS. I feel terribly misled... and am very, VERY disappointed.

We do plan to add additional solar (~10kW), does anyone know if a new system with modern components can integrate into the HIS? Or is Sunrun the only PV system that could possibly be integrated?
.
Sunrun is silent - has anyone else run into this SUPRISE!?

Is there a work around?

PS: We love our Lightning!

This isn't just about EXISTING PV ARRAYs. Many of those arrays are likely to have battery backup and / or the ability to accept power from a generator. Most of us bought a truck because we plan to drive it, not leave it tethered to our home power grid. The bottom line is the $9-10k HIS isn't the bottom line if you would like your power to stay on should you be away from home in your Lightning when a power outage hits.

To do this you have to have what's called a hybrid inverter. And most of them have an input port for a generator. A workaround would be to just connect the Lightning's 240v power port to the inverter's generator input port. But to date, the only documented workaround I've seen for using the Lightning's 240v port is wiring it to your critical loads panel.

Someone said you can have two inverters but the non-Sunrun inverter would not function if the grid went down. Ford needs to work with hybrid inverter makers to ensure its Lightning - and hopefully other bidirectionally capable offerings will work with already installed PV systems - WITHOUT requiring potential customers to buy expensive, unnecessary Sunrun add-ons or sacrificing existing system capabilities.

 

[world2steven]

Solar can definitely be integrated. @tommolog has a video detailing his installation in which his solar was integrated. Note, the HIS inverter will only deliver up to 9.6kW. In Tom's video, he mentioned that his soar is split between the HIS and a secondary inverter. The secondary inverter will not work when the grid goes down.

If you are planning another 10kW in solar, that might pair well with the HIS. Tom recommends Qmerit, I chose to go through them for my upcoming FCSP install. I'm happy so far and will likely use them again when I figure out what I want to do for a back up solution.

Communication is severely lacking in many industries today. Hopefully they can set things straight for you soon.

 

[world2steven]

The secondary inverter will not work when the grid goes down.

This may not be what you are talking about but if a second inverter is connected to a non-HIS automatic transfer switch (ATS) and the HIS ATS is the first to detect a grid down condition does that mean anything connected to the second inverter will be inoperable in a grid-down situation?

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