Intentionally pushing the tax credit, old fashioned way?

[mrau]

When I bought mine in Jan 2024 I took the credit at the point of sale. The dealer filed it online with IRS while I was sitting there. The document does say it was accepted.

I think the dealer was more concerned it was accepted than I was since they were fronting the $7500. I was the first point of sale one that they did.

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[TaxmanHog]

Would you/anyone also know if this serves as enough “proof” that the seller also did submit the sale to the IRS?

If they provided you with form 15400 containing the correct information, then you're good to go.

See this generic example as shown on IRS.GOV

https://www.irs.gov/pub/newsroom/form-15400-sample-new.pdf

 

[JohnsonEJ23]

I purchased my truck back in April from Robert Horne Ford in the Phoenix area. They said they weren't setup to give me the tax credit at time of purchase but that I could do it at tax time. That was fine. Well then, a month or so later, I found out I was supposed to have received this form from them. I asked them about it and they said they didn't need to. I pushed and they said it didn't exist. I shared links, fliers, and even a power point presentation to teach dealers about this, all that I sourced from IRS.gov.

Many phone calls later, chats with Ford Mo Co, who confirmed the dealer should do it, but said they couldn't force them to, and many online reviews, news agency requests, Facebook page posts, and a BBB complaint (they didn't respond and I found out they have a D- rating) later, I have still yet to get a phone call back from their GM who I'm told the issue is escalated up to. I then filed a complaint with the Attorney General who has been going back and forth with them for a few months but still with no resolution.

Now that we're upon tax time, does anyone have any ideas to help me get this for my returns? I'm absolutely beside myself that a company can treat a customer this way and just flat out ignore them. While I have been a big pest to them, I've never been disrespectful or raised my voice with any of their staff and have given them no reason to keep ignoring me. I'm also wondering how many people they will have beating down their door if their tax credit gets denied... Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[chl]

The ~NEW~ administration can't change tax LAW on the fly, it requires action in congress to repeal or modify existing law

Yes, can't change tax law specifics IF the specifics are in the law.

But the agencies have a lot of discretion in how to implement the law and promulgate 'rules' on how the laws are to be implemented.

The SupCt recently overruled the "Chevron doctrine" which had given agencies a lot of leeway to implement laws, so now that power is restricted somewhat - on a case by case basis probably.

So, if the IRS tries to change the rules, tweak them, and we can expect they will try, they might get away with it as long as they follow the administrative procedures act (given time for notice and comment), but an appeal to the SupCt might reverse any rule changes.

So while they could not stop the tax credit, the fear is they could tweak it to the point that no EVs qualify and then suing would be required to get it back. The overturning of Chevron makes that easier, perhaps, giving less deference to things the IRS does with tax law through rules.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0tuLl3KLsbZPBL11ZiJfpe

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw37_T3-1cTVHqiUgid0Oyo2

Sometime the IRS make a ruling on something, and then the taxpayer appeals it and eventually it gets reversed, but it was often a long slog - the SupCt might have made it easier?

 

[chl]

Currently In the last few steps of finalizing a Lightning, for which there’s 0% APR being offered.
As a result, we decided to not push the 7500 tax credit into the loan/lower the price of the car, but instead delay it until tax time to get that cash upfront. Obviously this increases the loan amount, but as the APR is low, we’d rather have the cash now.
Looking at the IRS website, they state the following:
“Seller must give you a time-of-sale report and a copy of the confirmation the IRS provides when it accepts the time-of-sale report submitted through IRS ECO”

But no information as to what these look like, what qualifies as these docs, or any other details.
Has anyone done this before? Any tips?
Thanks!

From the IRS web site in Nov 2024 - so file a form 8936 with your return and hope for the best:

Step 4: If you didn't get a time-of-sale report: Contact your seller

If you didn't get a time-of-sale report at the time of purchase or you lost it, contact the seller to get a copy of the report.

If you can't get a copy from the seller and more than 3 days have passed since the purchase date, proceed to Step 5.
-----

Step 5: File Form 8936 with your tax return

You don't need a printed copy of the time-of-sale report to qualify for the credit.

However, you will need to file Form 8936, Clean Vehicle Credits when you file your tax return for the year in which you took delivery of the vehicle. You must file the form whether you transferred the credit at the time of sale or you're claiming the credit on your return.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8936

If the return is rejected due to Form 8936, ensure the VIN was input correctly.

Note there are no letters “O”, “Q” or “I” in a VIN. If the VIN was input correctly and you believe the vehicle is eligible, attach a file or explanation to substantiate the purchase before resubmitting the return.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/how-to-claim-a-clean-vehicle-tax-credit

 

[JohnsonEJ23]

From the IRS web site in Nov 2024 - so file a form 8936 with your return and hope for the best:

Step 4: If you didn't get a time-of-sale report: Contact your seller

If you didn't get a time-of-sale report at the time of purchase or you lost it, contact the seller to get a copy of the report.

If you can't get a copy from the seller and more than 3 days have passed since the purchase date, proceed to Step 5.
-----

Step 5: File Form 8936 with your tax return

You don't need a printed copy of the time-of-sale report to qualify for the credit.

However, you will need to file Form 8936, Clean Vehicle Credits when you file your tax return for the year in which you took delivery of the vehicle. You must file the form whether you transferred the credit at the time of sale or you're claiming the credit on your return.

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-8936

If the return is rejected due to Form 8936, ensure the VIN was input correctly.

Note there are no letters “O”, “Q” or “I” in a VIN. If the VIN was input correctly and you believe the vehicle is eligible, attach a file or explanation to substantiate the purchase before resubmitting the return.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/how-to-claim-a-clean-vehicle-tax-credit

And if the dealer never registered the sale of the VIN with the IRS, then do we know what happens? I'm assuming this VIN will be cross checked against their database of reported sales...

 

[TaxmanHog]

Robert Horne Ford in the Phoenix area.

@Ford Motor Company you CAN force them to comply with the tax laws, you can REVOKE their franchise agreement !

This dealer is about to get the long arm of the law up their proverbial .....................

 

[TaxmanHog]

Yes, can't change tax law specifics IF the specifics are in the law.

REACHING

 

[1375mlm]

From the IRS web site in Nov 2024 - so file a form 8936 with your return and hope for the best:

Step 4: If you didn't get a time-of-sale report: Contact your seller

If you didn't get a time-of-sale report at the time of purchase or you lost it, contact the seller to get a copy of the report.

If you can't get a copy from the seller and more than 3 days have passed since the purchase date, proceed to Step 5.
-----

Step 5: File Form 8936 with your tax return

You don't need a printed copy of the time-of-sale report to qualify for the credit.

However, you will need to file Form 8936, Clean Vehicle Credits when you file your tax return for the year in which you took delivery of the vehicle. You must file the form whether you transferred the credit at the time of sale or you're claiming the credit on your return.

Appreciate the non-sarcastic post here, since I completely glossed over this as well on the dang website. I was even ready to get a lawyer friend involved with this situation, but really relieving to see that the 2024 language has a way out. I have it in writing that the dealer submitted the sale, although still waiting on that 15400 form. Seems like worst case isn’t going to be that bad now.

happy to be part of this awesome community and hope I can help someone in the same way I was just helped here!

 

[TaxmanHog]

I have it in writing that the dealer submitted the sale, although still waiting on that 15400 form. Seems like worst case isn’t going to be that bad now.

Hopefully it won't be to long of a wait, this week the IRS mainframes are in a period of rest called "Dead Cycles" while end of year processing is being completed to roll off statute expired accounts to archive, and roll in new code for the 2025 processing season and general systems updates.

Hopefully the 24/7/365 services supporting reporting and generation of form 15400 are still operational, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a short delay.

 

[RickLightning]

I just bought mine last week and it doesn’t matter when you take the money you can take it at the point of sale. There will still be an adjustment made at tax time if there was an error or you don’t qualify for all of it it really doesn’t make a difference. It’s gonna be corrected either way you don’t get that money for free now if you take it nowthere will be a correction if there needs to be one so it really doesn’t matter you’re gonna get the same amount either way that’s what I was told by my accountant.

Wrong.

If you take it at time of purchase, then only the income test is done at time of filing. If your tax liability is insufficient, you give nothing back.

I purchased my truck back in April from Robert Horne Ford in the Phoenix area. They said they weren't setup to give me the tax credit at time of purchase but that I could do it at tax time. That was fine. Well then, a month or so later, I found out I was supposed to have received this form from them. I asked them about it and they said they didn't need to. I pushed and they said it didn't exist. I shared links, fliers, and even a power point presentation to teach dealers about this, all that I sourced from IRS.gov.

Many phone calls later, chats with Ford Mo Co, who confirmed the dealer should do it, but said they couldn't force them to, and many online reviews, news agency requests, Facebook page posts, and a BBB complaint (they didn't respond and I found out they have a D- rating) later, I have still yet to get a phone call back from their GM who I'm told the issue is escalated up to. I then filed a complaint with the Attorney General who has been going back and forth with them for a few months but still with no resolution.

Now that we're upon tax time, does anyone have any ideas to help me get this for my returns? I'm absolutely beside myself that a company can treat a customer this way and just flat out ignore them. While I have been a big pest to them, I've never been disrespectful or raised my voice with any of their staff and have given them no reason to keep ignoring me. I'm also wondering how many people they will have beating down their door if their tax credit gets denied... Anyone have any other ideas?

Relax. File your taxes.

 

[rgrandy]

I purchased my truck back in April from Robert Horne Ford in the Phoenix area. They said they weren't setup to give me the tax credit at time of purchase but that I could do it at tax time. That was fine. Well then, a month or so later, I found out I was supposed to have received this form from them. I asked them about it and they said they didn't need to. I pushed and they said it didn't exist. I shared links, fliers, and even a power point presentation to teach dealers about this, all that I sourced from IRS.gov.

Many phone calls later, chats with Ford Mo Co, who confirmed the dealer should do it, but said they couldn't force them to, and many online reviews, news agency requests, Facebook page posts, and a BBB complaint (they didn't respond and I found out they have a D- rating) later, I have still yet to get a phone call back from their GM who I'm told the issue is escalated up to. I then filed a complaint with the Attorney General who has been going back and forth with them for a few months but still with no resolution.

Now that we're upon tax time, does anyone have any ideas to help me get this for my returns? I'm absolutely beside myself that a company can treat a customer this way and just flat out ignore them. While I have been a big pest to them, I've never been disrespectful or raised my voice with any of their staff and have given them no reason to keep ignoring me. I'm also wondering how many people they will have beating down their door if their tax credit gets denied... Anyone have any other ideas?

I am in the same boat, I suspect a lot of people are. I am hoping it turns out okay.

 

[1375mlm]

Hopefully it won't be to long of a wait, this week the IRS mainframes are in a period of rest called "Dead Cycles" while end of year processing is being completed to roll off statute expired accounts to archive, and roll in new code for the 2025 processing season and general systems updates.

Hopefully the 24/7/365 services supporting reporting and generation of form 15400 are still operational, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a short delay.

hmm, wouldn’t this have to be instantaneous? I would think that if the credit is normally used as point of sale, it would have to be 7/365 since otherwise the dealer couldn’t get the credit transferred to them/passed through to us.

Wondering then if I should take it a little easier on the dealer getting the form to me.

 

[TaxmanHog]

hmm, wouldn’t this have to be instantaneous? I would think that if the credit is normally used as point of sale, it would have to be 7/365 since otherwise the dealer couldn’t get the credit transferred to them/passed through to us.

Wondering then if I should take it a little easier on the dealer getting the form to me.

I've been researching the internal revenue manual and production guides, so far I haven't come up with maximum time frames to get the confirmations back to the dealer, personally I would expect that if it can't come instantaneously , give it 24/48 hours.

 

[chl]

And if the dealer never registered the sale of the VIN with the IRS, then do we know what happens? I'm assuming this VIN will be cross checked against their database of reported sales...

Well the IRS says if you don't get the form within three days - so 'never' qualifies as more than 3 days.

But they don't say "if the dealer never reports the sale" however, they know which vehicles qualify from the VIN, and you could supply a copy of your window sticker with the MSRP. All the vehicle info they need is encoded into the VIN I believe.

They say:

...you will need to file Form 8936, Clean Vehicle Credits when you file your tax return for the year in which you took delivery of the vehicle. You must file the form whether you transferred the credit at the time of sale or you're claiming the credit on your return.

So nothing else is required...however...

I'd get prepared to submit the window sticker or paperwork that shows the MSRP to file as attachments to your forms. Even if you e-file I think you could attache a PDF of the paperwork proof.

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