Lightning vs R1T - Timing and cost

[Riviot]

As a Launch Edition reservation, I got off easy with an $11k price increase. But now that puts my April/May (let's be honest, Rivian, June/July) Rivian R1T at $90k and my May 9 production for Lightning Lariat ER at $84k with ADM. Similar delivery times, and price difference flopped around.

The same day Rivian stuck it to me, my Ford dealer called with my production date and VIN. I honestly went through the Lightning reservation with no intention of keeping it, either cancelling or flipping... But now I might actually keep it.

How did Ford become the underdog? And how are they winning so easily?!

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[jazzmanmonty]

I hope Ford is paying attention to the backlash from Rivian customers and doesn't try to pull anything funny with Lightning prices for current/upcoming orders.

 

[FordLightningMan]

I hope Ford is paying attention to the backlash from Rivian customers and doesn't try to pull anything funny with Lightning prices for current/upcoming orders.

The Bronco has seen price bumps, the new model year is about $1,500 more than the last. I think if something similar happened with the MY23 Lightning, that would be reasonable. $12k-$17k is a completely different story.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

As a Launch Edition reservation, I got off easy with an $11k price increase. But now that puts my April/May (let's be honest, Rivian, June/July) Rivian R1T at $90k and my May 9 production for Lightning Lariat ER at $84k with ADM. Similar delivery times, and price difference flopped around.

The same day Rivian stuck it to me, my Ford dealer called with my production date and VIN. I honestly went through the Lightning reservation with no intention of keeping it, either cancelling or flipping... But now I might actually keep it.

How did Ford become the underdog? And how are they winning so easily?!

This is me as well. in the back of my head I was always thinking I’d sell the lightning when the R1T is available.

Tonight I went…crap. Did I get all the options I want?

 

[SteffanG]

Ford has the limitation from raising the price too far. It is already fairly expensive over a ICE f150. If they raised it $10k, it would probably drive half (or more) of the customers to just get an ICE truck.
Rivian is trying to pull a fast one over customers to make a lot more money.
I'm hoping this war in the Ukraine doesn't totally screw up the global chip supply for everything (Ukraine supplies almost all the gas to manufacture chips)

 

[pstansel]

Rivian is financially in a bit of trouble. Their share price has plummeted (I know... I have some) and they cut their delivery estimates. I guess they are trying to squeeze revenue from the customers they already have. I had preordered the Lightning on a lark while waiting for my Cybertruck. Guess which one I'm getting now....

 

[Orlando150]

I hope Ford is paying attention to the backlash from Rivian customers and doesn't try to pull anything funny with Lightning prices for current/upcoming orders.

Ford has 100 years of experience in knowing what is costs to build a car. Rivian has... 0.

Year over year prices increases on the F-150 or Bronco or Mustang is normal. Ford has even gone out of their way to minimize that impact on Bronco reservations by locking in the MSRP for orders already made.

The move by Rivian really feels like the company didn't fully understand their costs and are now panicking because they would lose a ton of money on every sale.

 

[EaglesPDX]

How did Ford become the underdog? And how are they winning so easily?!

Bigger company with more control on suppliers most likely. Rivian is such low volume that it has less control on vendors plus smaller quantity orders.

I got my Adventure price back to original going dual motor and 260 mile range. I'm still a looking at '24 (even though first day depositor for Ford) for both so we'll see what Ford's price is vs. Rivian's by 2024.

Silverado might be shipping by then also so three to choose from and someone might have an SUV version of something that will do my 5#, 100 mile tow.

 

[greenne]

Bigger company with more control on suppliers most likely. Rivian is such low volume that it has less control on vendors plus smaller quantity orders.

I got my Adventure price back to original going dual motor and 260 mile range. I'm still a looking at '24 (even though first day depositor for Ford) for both so we'll see what Ford's price is vs. Rivian's by 2024.

Silverado might be shipping by then also so three to choose from and someone might have an SUV version of something that will do my 5#, 100 mile tow.

In addition, although everyone keeps bashing dealers...since they have a play in this game, it keeps Ford from making sudden/widescale pricing increases outside the norm. You can bet if Ford tried something similar(and it resulted in a sales dip), dealers would raise hell. If it caused too much of a dip the UAW would complain as well

Said it before and I'll say it again... I don't know why people are so hell bent on getting rid of dealers and going to direct sales. Look at goes on a Tesla and what has now happened at Rivian-- sudden price increase with no customer recourse. I'll take dealing with random ADMs over a higher "fixed" MSRP any day.

What happen if a dealer springs an ADM on you? You go to another dealer with no ADM or ask Ford to intervene if it was in bad faith.

What happens when Tesla or Rivian jacks the MSRP on you? You're screwed-- either take it or leave it.

 

[Beans]

This is me as well. in the back of my head I was always thinking I’d sell the lightning when the R1T is available.

Third one here in the same position. I reserved the lightning as a ”backup“ plan In May, decided to pull the trigger in January when I was lucky enough to order, and figured I'd sell it when I get the Rivian. With the Rivian delays, lack of information, and now the price hike I couldn't be more excited to get and keep the Lightning.

This should only help the long-term value of a lightning.

 

[greenne]

Ford has 100 years of experience in knowing what is costs to build a car. Rivian has... 0.

Year over year prices increases on the F-150 or Bronco or Mustang is normal. Ford has even gone out of their way to minimize that impact on Bronco reservations by locking in the MSRP for orders already made.

The move by Rivian really feels like the company didn't fully understand their costs and are now panicking because they would lose a ton of money on every sale.

In addition, Ford can play the long game with much more capital. Lets say they lose money on the short term on the Lightning but they are confident long term it will make money(supply cost goes down, mass production lowers build cost, etc)-- Ford can afford to take a loss in the short term as they are making money elsewhere and/or have some investment in the bank.

Rivian does not have that luxury or assurance. They have to be profitable in a comparably short period of time or they go out of business.

 

[rodhx]

Rivian has effectively made the SR Lariat and the new base R1T almost equivalent from an equipment perspective, whereas before the R1T was significantly better equipped than a like-priced Ford. Rivian still holds the performance/range edge, and the best color choice (yellow ), but the decision starts to lean back toward Ford for now.

For low $70ks do I want a 230 miles Ford or a 260 mile R1T? What I really want though is that loaded ER XLT we all thought we would get at that price point. I would definitely sign up for that as a stop-gap until I get an Evalanche.

The more I think about that amount of money the more I lean to the BMW i4 M50 to daily drive & autocross ?

 

[EaglesPDX]

In addition, although everyone keeps bashing dealers...since they have a play in this game, it keeps Ford from making sudden/widescale pricing increases outside the norm.

Uh...no since dealers are doing exactly that, raising prices $10k.

 

[FordLightningMan]

What this has also done is confirm Rivian is a luxury vehicle, it is not in the same segment as Ford. Although you now have two similarly priced options between the lowest price Rivian and a mid/high-trim Lightning; Rivian has nothing in $50k space.

The question a consumer now needs to make is does the Lightning at lower trims offer enough to satisfy their needs, or are they looking for a luxury automobile. This is no different than decisions which have been made for decades when buying an automobile (i.e. - Toyota versus a BMW). Personally I think the XLT SR (or especially Pro, which I missed) offer a ton of bang for my buck and I'm not interested in a luxury truck. Around $50k is the peak of price for the mass segment of buyers, Ford owns it now in the EV truck space and will continue to own it for at least 2 years.

 

[ExCivilian]

Uh...no since dealers are doing exactly that, raising prices $10k.

I think the point was if there's an $10K of meat on the bone the dealerships and union will raise hell if the manufacturer tries to gobble it all.

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