Lightning vs R1T - Timing and cost

[EaglesPDX]

I think the point was if there's an $10K of meat on the bone the dealerships and union will raise hell if the manufacturer tries to gobble it all.

If it makes Ford more profitable, markets usually reward profitability. Workers pay will increase also as it should if the products they build create more profits. Dealerships make about 8% on MSRP so increase in price increases dealerships gross profits also.

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[jfried]

Got to give Ford major kudos based on this Rivian announcement.

Even when they jacked all vehicles MSRP a month ago, they made clear that all current orders would be at the old MSRP.

Yes, the $100 token reservation holders may be a little disappointed, but I think that's a little different than the $1000 deposits they hold.

 

[greenne]

Uh...no since dealers are doing exactly that, raising prices $10k.

Not every dealer is adding $10k. You can find dealers selling at MSRP. That's the point....

 

[rodhx]

Around $50k is the peak of price for the mass segment of buyers, Ford owns it now in the EV truck space and will continue to own it for at least 2 years.

Good post. Unfortunately thanks to Ford's ownership that segment will only be allowed to be a few thousand buyers for those two years. They are currently only really interested in playing in the luxury segment.

 

[maverick92]

Not every dealer is adding $10k. You can find dealers selling at MSRP. That's the point....

You're right, except Ford makes you choose a dealer BEFORE placing the order. A lot of shady Bronco dealers out there refusing to put things in writing and then springing $5k ADMs on customers at delivery who've been waiting patiently for 12+ months.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Not every dealer is adding $10k.

But many are so and it is the same net effect as Rivian's price increase. Demand for EV vehicles is high.

 

[gombater]

What's worse? ADM from a dealer? Or Rivian adjusting the price themselves?

Personally, I just received an email from Rivian after holding a reservation for well over a year. They just adjusted the price of my truck due to inflation...by $19,000. I promptly cancelled order, I'll stick with my Ford Lightning.

yup, the math has sure changed. I went ahead and ordered the ER Lariat - no ADM [so far]. Hope to get a build date soon. I am holding on to the R1T reservation until at least March 10 just to let the dust settle and see just how bad things get.
Sure is looking like lightning in 2022 though, and EValanche/Lightning 2.0 ~2025

 

[LightningShow]

Kudos to Rivian for admitting they screwed up their pricing. Once Ford released their pricing on the Lightning it was clear Rivian didn't do the appropriate market research. The R1T was supposed to be an upscale lifestyle truck. It should be more expensive than the F-150. They'll raise it again soon, I bet.

 

[ExCivilian]

Once Ford released their pricing on the Lightning it was clear Rivian didn't do the appropriate market research.

The prices are four years old.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Kudos to Rivian for admitting they screwed up their pricing. Once Ford released their pricing on the Lightning it was clear Rivian didn't do the appropriate market research. The R1T was supposed to be an upscale lifestyle truck. It should be more expensive than the F-150. They'll raise it again soon, I bet.

Definitely a management failure. If they waited until Ford launched to adjust, that's a very reactionary management method.

The right time to raise the price would have been last September - before launch. They had an opportunity there to say - thank you everyone who pre-ordered with us before launch. Folks who had faith and supported us. You're locked in. Going forward, here's the new price as we move from prototype to production.

That would have been seen as a discount for those that supported the company, for loyalty to the company.

By last Sept the trends in inflation and the rise in automotive prices were already sky high and should have been an indicator to them.

 

[LightningShow]

The prices are four years old.

I know, that's the problem. They should've been updated way before this. Probably multiple times.

 

[RLXXI]

I'm back on the Lightning train, I cancelled my R1T reservation. They jacked up my preorder from $70,xxx to just over $83,xxx Same truck, same options. Rivian can kiss my behind!

I predict a lot of people jumping from that sinking ship.

 

[jcaspar]

Big differences in bed length in these vehicles: Lightening 5.5', Riven 4.5' (same as Ford Maverick). Cybertruck is 6.5'

 

[MickeyAO]

Big differences in bed length in these vehicles: Lightening 5.5', Riven 4.5' (same as Ford Maverick). Cybertruck is 6.5'

Not everyone is concerned about bed length...the most I have hauled over the last 8 years is two kegs of beer

Yes, I understand there will be people concerned with this, but they probably discounted the Riven (and the Maverick) based on bed length.

 

[jfried]

Definitely a management failure. If they waited until Ford launched to adjust, that's a very reactionary management method.

The right time to raise the price would have been last September - before launch. They had an opportunity there to say - thank you everyone who pre-ordered with us before launch. Folks who had faith and supported us. You're locked in. Going forward, here's the new price as we move from prototype to production.

That would have been seen as a discount for those that supported the company, for loyalty to the company.

By last Sept the trends in inflation and the rise in automotive prices were already sky high and should have been an indicator to them.

To be fair... that's kind of what you should expect from a startup... management mistakes. They don't have 100 years of car-building experience like Ford does. Heck, even Tesla's first go at it was in full knowledge that they're not car people.... their first model was a Lotus Elise with their own "engine". Infotainment, IIRC, was an alpine double-din head unit available at your local electronics store. Rivian is trying to build everything from scratch.

That being said, they are losing the PR battle on this one -- you cannot justify a $12k price increase (really $14k with paint) on "supply chain issues" or microchips, but then say "you can have that same truck, smaller battery and fewer motors, for that original price in 2 years".

They really should have come out and admitted that their plans were too ambitious / aggressive, no realistic, maybe a bit of blame the supply chain, but focus on "we're gonna do better going forward".

On the flip side, I will say, that their initial pricing certainly does / did seem to be to good to be true, especially in comparison to the Lightning. At $67.5k, you're similarly priced to an ICE, fully loaded, platinum truck, and I think you could make the case that you're basically $6-8k above a Lariat 502a truck with a powerboost, and similarly equipped.

With Ford's pricing, the "base" versions (for which Rivian did not previously have a comparable) came in around $5k above their gas counterparts, and ER versions come in about $15k above their gas counterparts.

Rivian is a niche automaker, they're not, and really never should have been competing in the Ford "XLT marketplace".

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