Swap for my dealers mannequin unit?

[RonTCat]

I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere before - do you have a link to the source?

By nature, batteries with more cells should last longer due to the leveling process, since there are more cells to work with, and each should level at a slower rate.

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[hturnerfamily]

The problem here is that Ford, or any other EV manufacturer, uses the term 'frequent', which has no real meaning - it's subjective, it's only comparative, and it's not specific within ANY terms of everyday usage. 'Frequent' could mean everyday, from 0%-100% for one person, 5 times a day for another, and 3 times a YEAR in someone else's mind.

There is no 'guarantee' of battery standards - there are too many variables. If Ford and others choose to do the research, engineering, and real-world testing, and give us SOLID and SPECIFIC ideas of what 'frequent' means - then, o.k.. Until then, there is no answer to this concern, even if it is really ANY concern at all.

 

[metroshot]

The problem here is that Ford, or any other EV manufacturer, uses the term 'frequent', which has no real meaning - it's subjective, it's only comparative, and it's not specific within ANY terms of everyday usage. 'Frequent' could mean everyday, from 0%-100% for one person, 5 times a day for another, and 3 times a YEAR in someone else's mind.

There is no 'guarantee' of battery standards - there are too many variables. If Ford and others choose to do the research, engineering, and real-world testing, and give us SOLID and SPECIFIC ideas of what 'frequent' means - then, o.k.. Until then, there is no answer to this concern, even if it is really ANY concern at all.

I am not worried - I charge using L2 (240V AC) at home & work most of the time.

My PHEV battery after 4 years on L2 has not shown any degradation in range, plus it has another 6 years of warranty left...

Anytime I travel distance, I will use DCFC but that's like less than 10% of the time.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

So you're willing to spend twice as much money? Why not just order the lariat in the first place?

A. My financial budget recently improved thanks to a nice raise but too late to change order.

B. Initially i thought i could do a routine monthly trip with one charge stop w/SR, but now after new data I'll have to stop twice.

C. My wife will be driving it a lot for work (approx 600 miles/week) and she is shorter. So I'd love the adjustable seats and pedals. Perks of nicer trim would be nice too.

D. I don't want to dish out almost double and still love the the value of Pro, but sometimes it's better to spend the money than deal with potential constant complaining over and over and over and over and..well u married men get it

 

[hturnerfamily]

I am not worried - I charge using L2 (240V AC) at home & work most of the time.

My PHEV battery after 4 years on L2 has not shown any degradation in range, plus it has another 6 years of warranty left...

Anytime I travel distance, I will use DCFC but that's like less than 10% of the time.

yes, agreed, and this is basically how 99% of trucks will be charged, although by some folks you would think that the 'sky is falling' when they discuss the battery problems they will encounter if they 'DC fast charge' or 'charge to 100%' too often, although 'too often' is not defined.

The batteries are designed to charge. They WANT to be charged. They want to be charged FULLY.
No battery wants to remain 'uncharged' or 'less than full'. I'm not even sure where the 'only to 80%' charging ever comes from, but it's surely a myth that many have bitten.
No, none of my Nissan Leafs or my new Kia Sorento PHEV has any problems with being fully 100% charged everyday.

 

[hturnerfamily]

A. My financial budget recently improved thanks to a nice raise but too late to change order.

B. Initially i thought i could do a routine monthly trip with one charge stop w/SR, but now after new data I'll have to stop twice.

C. My wife will be driving it a lot for work (approx 600 miles/week) and she is shorter. So I'd love the adjustable seats and pedals. Perks of nicer trim would be nice too.

D. I don't want to dish out almost double and still love the the value of Pro, but sometimes it's better to spend the money than deal with potential constant complaining over and over and over and over and..well u married men get it

I agree. Sounds like you have moved your 'aim' and now there is a possibility to improve your initial choice - talk with your dealer and let us know how it goes - this might be an option for quite a few folks who've had changes since they 'ordered' way 'back' in January or so.

 

[metroshot]

yes, agreed, and this is basically how 99% of trucks will be charged, although by some folks you would think that the 'sky is falling' when they discuss the battery problems they will encounter if they 'DC fast charge' or 'charge to 100%' too often, although 'too often' is not defined.

The batteries are designed to charge. They WANT to be charged. They want to be charged FULLY.
No battery wants to remain 'uncharged' or 'less than full'. I'm not even sure where the 'only to 80%' charging ever comes from, but it's surely a myth that many have bitten.
No, none of my Nissan Leafs or my new Kia Sorento PHEV has any problems with being fully 100% charged everyday.

Yes, myths are abound!

I think the 80% and 20% numbers came around when GM was having EV batteries catch fire.

The EV SOC buffers use sensors & charging/discharging algorithmic controls. The system provides safe ceiling levels, protects cells, monitors and maintains safe charging and discharging to prevent fires, dead cells, etc...

Having had to maintain battery backed systems (Li ion & NiMH) on my organization's: telecom 48V DC + POE WAN/LAN network + HVAC server backup UPS - all our infrastructure batteries are meant to be fully charged at 100% with occasional maintenance of cell load balancing required at PM events.

 

[hturnerfamily]

agreed, and while many might suggest that you shouldn't DC Fast charge to 100%, even that is a misnomer. They are referring to 'constantly' DC Fast charging to 100%, not the very infrequent(ooops, I used that subjective term myself!) usage of a DC Fast charger, such as on long trips. HEAT is the enemy to the battery bank, NOT the charging to 100%. HEAT is what the problem is, not battery percentage. A battery's cooling, especially in this quick-discharge vehicles, is paramount, which is why you are offered the 'Max Towing' package, which only consists of MORE cooling.

 

[hturnerfamily]

and that's the rub - 'controlled' testing might render some numbers to disagree about, in a lab setting, but the real-world everyday life of a truck that basically 'sits' for 99% of it's life is not so critical. I can understand batteries that are in a setting where they are part of a day-in day-out manufacturing or critical environment where they are part of a structure of constant power, but a truck simply does not have that same environment, at least not with a battery that has that type of critical 24/7 usage.
The idea that a vehicle's battery will 'suddenly' experience a degradation or have a negative impact simply because an owner decides to use DC Fast chargers constantly over a 24 hour period, non-stop, to reach a destination, taking the battery almost to '0' each time, is not really a big concern as some will make it out to be. It's a BIG battery. These seldom types of experiences will hardly make any dent in the overall multi-year performance of such a battery pack. These are not to be compared to diesel semi's who's life is dedicated to 24/7 interstate 70 mph running, and usage as commercial vehicles for millions of miles.
If you break out a typical vehicle's travel per year, which insurance studies rate at about 12,000 miles on average, that translates to the truck moving for about 1.4 measly miles, in each hour of the day. The battery pack is well designed to EASILY handle that, no matter how you charge it.

but, Hey, what do I know?
I've only owned two EVs and a PHEV... and a recent Model 3 Long-Range trip to San Antonio from Georgia and back, 2,000 miles, with nothing but DC Fast Charging along the way, multiple times per day. No worries. : )

 

[Tmack7]

Should I swap my XLT SR that will be delivered within a month or so with my dealer's Lariat ER that will arrive in the next week or two? Either one would be at MSRP. I've got my dealer checking on this FCTP provision with their rep:

This provision seems to me it would allow the swap. If any of the penalties apply then we wouldn't do the swap. The only two 2022 Lightning's my dealer is getting are the mannequin unit and my XLT.

I have an XLT SR on order. It has an June 1st blend date so it should already be assembled.

What's changed since my wave 2 order:
- The range on the ER has been raised by 20 miles.
- Ford has announced that the ER should have better expected battery life than the SR.
- Gasoline prices have increased by 40% or so.
- If my wife loves the Lightning then I think she will drive it around locally and leave her SUV in the garage.
- The ER model would give more confidence on longer trips.

My order: XLT SR 311A package with Max Tow, Tow Technology, fancy tailgate and spray in bedliner $59,084 MSRP. Atlas Blue.
Mannequin unit: Lariat ER 511A package with Max Tow and the spray in bedliner $81,244 MSRP. Rapid Red which is a fine color with me. So $22,160 more for the Lariat ER.

Thoughts?

Did your swap ever work out?

 

[p52Ranch]

Did your swap ever work out?

I am still working with the dealer on it. Their mannequin unit is at the dealer and in service as a demo. My XLT is sitting in a parking lot in Dearborn waiting to be put on a train. The manager at the dealer hasn't gotten around to talking with the regional rep about the swap. He seems a bit adverse to doing any extra paperwork. I figure until my XLT is on the way it won't matter.

I did bring the demo home for a few hours the other day. Tested out my Charge Point charger on it. My wife does approve of the Lariat so that threshold has been crossed.

 

[Rob G]

I tried to do the swap and they said they couldn’t. I have the exact config as the dealer mannequin other than color—which I didn’t care about.

 

[p52Ranch]

I tried to do the swap and they said they couldn’t. I have the exact config as the dealer mannequin other than color—which I didn’t care about.

Are you still waiting on yours to arrive? Did they have a more detailed explanation on the reason they couldn't do the swap?

I am thinking the reasons they may not do the swap could be:
- Ford is implementing more strict rules on the demo's or on ordered Lightnings than are published.
- The dealer will miss out on some of the Ford bonus incentives if the swap is done. The 10% dealer profit on the Lightning has all sorts of thresholds that must be met.
- Both vehicles have to be in stock before they can do a swap. (Perhaps if they swapped out early then the time between selling Demo and receiving replacement doesn't count for the 6 months in service)
- The dealer doesn't want to hassle with the paperwork.
- The dealer already has an agreement to sell the mannequin unit.

 

[metroshot]

Are you still waiting on yours to arrive? Did they have a more detailed explanation on the reason they couldn't do the swap?

I am thinking the reasons they may not do the swap could be:
- Ford is implementing more strict rules on the demo's or on ordered Lightnings than are published.
- The dealer will miss out on some of the Ford bonus incentives if the swap is done. The 10% dealer profit on the Lightning has all sorts of thresholds that must be met.
- Both vehicles have to be in stock before they can do a swap. (Perhaps if they swapped out early then the time between selling Demo and receiving replacement doesn't count for the 6 months in service)
- The dealer doesn't want to hassle with the paperwork.
- The dealer already has an agreement to sell the mannequin unit.

I asked about a swap with my Lariat & the dealer's loaded demo Pro.

They said no - they were told by Ford to hang onto it for 6 months.
The owner is driving the truck - won't let others drive it - not even the sales people!

They also titled it (DMV plates) so does that mean the $7500 fed tax credit is gone ?

 

[Pioneer74]

I asked about a swap with my Lariat & the dealer's loaded demo Pro.

They said no - they were told by Ford to hang onto it for 6 months.
The owner is driving the truck - won't let others drive it - not even the sales people!

They also titled it (DMV plates) so does that mean the $7500 fed tax credit is gone ?

At least it's being driven. There is a dealer I know of that has his Platinum sitting in the showroom with the frunk open. When I asked, the salesman said the owner is going to let it sit like that until he can sell it.