Tesla fires whole Supercharger team [Update: Musk says supercharger growth will continue]

[RickLightning]

I have only owned my Lightning since January but the several road trips I've take into the mountains, to the coast and down to GA (all need charging in route) have all gone seamlessly without the use of the Tesla network.

Maybe I'm just lucky that I haven't experienced issues with non Tesla charging stations to date, this may well be the case given the small number of trips I've taken but personally, I'd prefer to use a non Tesla charging station where possible, no interest in hogging two spaces etc. Have I ordered my Tesla adapter, yes, will I use it, yes when its my best option.

No EV should be reliant on any singular charging station brand just as ICE vehicles are not dependent on a certain gas/diesel brand. Personal preference is perfectly fine, to each their own. But I think its a bit harsh writing off EV's solely based on Tesla lay off (not firing) their Supercharger team and the expected slower growth of that network.

One of the reasons why your experience may be better is timing. In 2021, the EA chargers in parts of Georgia and Florida were old crap. Most of those are now replaced with new EA chargers.

I'm not sure what your use case is, but for three years I never used DCFC on my EVs - I charged at 20A/240V at home and had no problem going about my daily life. We are travelling more, and for me a long trip is between Bellingham and Eugene and it works fine. The worst case is that you might have to wait for a charge (or realistically go to a different charger) but that has not happened yet for me. All of the horror stories about EV charging pale in comparision to what the actual gas crisis of the 1970s looked like, with gas you have no other options.

Tesla stations are more convenient and reliable at the moment, but it isn't like Tesla is doing something magic that EA, BP Pulse and EV Go couldn't possibly manage - especially with large amounts of money being thrown at them by the government. What is disappointing is that Tesla is proving themselves to be an unreliable partner, it really shows the limitations of our economic system that one person can destroy the work of so many people.

I was most excited about the Tesla adapter for the Ford, because although I love it the thing is pretty poor as an EV. With an actual 300 mile range on my EV6 and super fast charging, I really don't even think about charging stations. The few times that I have needed them I had no problems, and if I did I would simply go to the next one.

Anyone who ever thought that Tesla would be a reliable partner would have been naive, or even stupid, based on history.

As to stories not being like the gas crisis, having experienced that, I see your point. Getting $5 worth every odd or even day wasn't fun. But, again, it's all about location and timing. In 2021 many EA locations were a shitshow. Now, most of those are new.

This doesn't change my plans at all. I'll still charge predominantly on EA chargers. The two times I tried charging my Lightning on brand-T NACS were failures. I have no intention of relying on brand-T for anything.
So far my experience is:
EA: >95% reliability.
Other CCS1: >85% reliability.
NACS: 0% reliability.

We went from MI to CA and back without EA. Only one location was not good (less than a year old EA that blinked out the entire location repeatedly), but some chargers were down.

Then we did MI to VT through Canada, and all DC chargers we used except one were Tesla. The Tesla charges were flawless, but some were down. The EA charge was noticeably slower than the Tesla feet away.

EA is nowhere near 95% reliability if you include chargers that are non-functional or derated. Not even close.

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[lightspeed]

I think you do yourself an injustice. Seriously, why do you think he is smarter than you are? This is a guy who thinks that it is impossible to save the Earth's climate, so humanity should move to Mars and change the climate on Mars! His view of science is based on young adult SF novels with a bit of Ayn Rand mixed in. He is not a god. He looks a lot more impressive if you didn't grow up reading the same young adult novels.

He is good at self promotion and fleecing investors, but that is pretty much a given for a tech company CEO.

You clearly know nothing about Elon. And yes, he's definitely smarter than you, but that doesn't mean he isn't crazy too.

Colonizing Mars is about long term existential threads to humanity, not giving up on Earth. What do you think Tesla is all about? And grid storage? Tesla Solar? Etc.

If you can do better than Elon, you should step up the plate.

 

[thequackenbush]

Latest episode of Out of Spec seems to think that several major auto manufacturers may be considering pulling out of NACS and going back to CCS1

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I just don’t see China coming here and running the small car business. Sure you can point to Japan and SK. Japan had a car culture with racing heritage that is still followed today. SK, well they e slowly but surely gained here in the States.

As far as China, we know the quality, we know they steal intellectual property. It’ll take at least 2 decades. The problem with Tesla is their MSRP circus and their “all new” is just a redesign.

Take the “New Model 3” it’s the same Model 3. They took the vents off the front bumper of the SR and LR but added it to the Performance. Now the Performance looks more like the old Performance

China is already here..

Polestar is owned by the Chinese auto group Geely and they’ll start producing cars inside the US with the Polestar 3, they’ve also got the footprint to sell them via Volvo dealers.

Unfortunately I’m old enough to have seen what Honda/Toyota did, then what Hyundai/Kia did. Chinese car companies have the same aspirations, and will likely experience the same growing pains…and so far Polestar while doing ok does not have Civic/Corolla level momentum yet.

 

[Texas Dan]

WTF? Wasn't Tesla given federal dollars to roll out more super chargers.? Are they just trying to pocket that now?

Tesla won about 10% of the year-1 NEVI contracts in Texas but about half those are replacements of existing Superchargers. Tesla is installing a lot of Superchargers in Texas right now but most of those appear to be privately funded.

 

[MichaelCA]

Tesla won about 10% of the year-1 NEVI contracts in Texas but about half those are replacements of existing Superchargers. Tesla is installing a lot of Superchargers in Texas right now but most of those appear to be privately funded.

also like to point out, teslas superchargers are far cheaper than anyone elses.
https://electrek.co/2022/04/15/tesla-cost-deploy-superchargers-revealed-one-fifth-competition/

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Latest episode of Out of Spec seems to think that several major auto manufacturers may be considering pulling out of NACS and going back to CCS1

I don’t blame them. The last thing I want is having invested a bunch of money on adapters, retooled, then for some reason the network is…????

I’ve owned Teslas since before Superchargers were a thing. It was about the only thing that Tesla did superbly right. I firmly believe that without Superchargers, Tesla would have failed. This makes 0 sense to me.

 

[PreservedSwine]

China is already here..

Polestar is owned by the Chinese auto group Geely and they’ll start producing cars inside the US with the Polestar 3, they’ve also got the footprint to sell them via Volvo dealers.

Unfortunately I’m old enough to have seen what Honda/Toyota did, then what Hyundai/Kia did. Chinese car companies have the same aspirations, and will likely experience the same growing pains…and so far Polestar while doing ok does not have Civic/Corolla level momentum yet.

Excellent point.

Japanese racing heritage? I have underwear older than that racing heritage.
I remember when Nissan didn’t exist (it was Datsun back then). There was no Acura, no Infiniti, no Lexus. All Honda, Nissan, and Toyota were, were cheap Japanese imports, there was no way they’d fill the luxury arena in the US. Hyundai/Kia is the same song, different band.
To see the way it’s played out over decades is astonishing. The cheap imports of yesterday now have the best reliability, performance, and reputation.
Certain Chinese companies (BYD, NIO) don’t need to turn a profit during their global expansion. I’m glad to see Buffet has been divesting of his BYD position recently, for no other reason than patriotic responsibility. They’re heavily subsidized by their own governmwnt, and are playing the long game against global competitors. They know they’re in an ev war, and are treating as such. All one has to do is listen to what they’re saying. You can laugh about quality (I enjoyed @taxman’s video) but they keep getting better. I suspect if they can reverse engineer (or simply steal) intellectual property, these issues will also be overcome. I lack confidence in most politicians to protect our intellectual property, or even understand long term consequences at this point.

That being said (sidetrack over) I am completely lost why TESLA is abandoning their greatest advantage. I suspect the reasons will become clear in the future.

 

[thequackenbush]

https://www.theonion.com/tesla-lays-off-entire-team-behind-brakes-1851449223

 

[PreservedSwine]

https://www.theonion.com/tesla-lays-off-entire-team-behind-brakes-1851449223

“ Instead, we will shift our efforts to making fart noises louder.”

 

[Newton]

Chinese companies already hold important patents on Lithium batteries and the successors to Lithium batteries. This is not a matter of reverse engineering since much of the engineering is done in China in the first place. Do a google earth and look at Wuhan sometime (don't be scared, they are not infectious.) I'm not saying that this is a good thing, but they have already outstripped us in technological innovation and it is something that we can't address by applying old stereotypes. There are a hell of a lot of people in China and they are just as smart as us, many of them excelled at our best Universities back in the day when that meant something.

 

[davehu]

Forgive me if this is answered earlier in this thread, but does this impact the timing / delivery of NACS adaptors? IE: does this Tesla team have some hand in the manufacturing and delivery of these?

good question. and does it have anything to do with the email we all got about a one month delay in shipping?

 

[thequackenbush]

Interesting- I never got that email

 

[Newton]

You clearly know nothing about Elon. And yes, he's definitely smarter than you, but that doesn't mean he isn't crazy too.

Colonizing Mars is about long term existential threads to humanity, not giving up on Earth. What do you think Tesla is all about? And grid storage? Tesla Solar? Etc.

If you can do better than Elon, you should step up the plate.

One of the signs that you are in a cult is that the decisions of the leader cannot be questioned. It is like religion, the decisions of God don't make sense to mere mortals so you can't question anything. Don't be too overawed by "smart" people, they can make really stupid decisions sometimes. (They are often the easiest to con.)

Anyone who survived Silicon Valley will have seen a fair number of blowhards and have a fairly well tuned B.S. detector. When I interviewed for an engineering position with a top enginer, he candidly admitted to me that a large part of their job was keeping the (very well known and super rich) C.E.O. somewhat within the bounds of reality when making promises to investors.

If I seem cynical, it is because I have seen it all before in the dot com boom. Every company was led by a rich charismatic genius who was going to change the world, and those apparently stupid decisions were really strokes of unimaginable brilliance. Some of them are in jail now. I had lots of friends who worked for places like that, I was fortunate enough not to make that mistake.

 

[lightspeed]

One of the signs that you are in a cult is that the decisions of the leader cannot be questioned. It is like religion, the decisions of God don't make sense to mere mortals so you can't question anything. Don't be too overawed by "smart" people, they can make really stupid decisions sometimes. (They are often the easiest to con.)

Anyone who survived Silicon Valley will have seen a fair number of blowhards and have a fairly well tuned B.S. detector. When I interviewed for an engineering position with a top enginer, he candidly admitted to me that a large part of their job was keeping the (very well known and super rich) C.E.O. somewhat within the bounds of reality when making promises to investors.

If I seem cynical, it is because I have seen it all before in the dot com boom. Every company was led by a rich charismatic genius who was going to change the world, and those apparently stupid decisions were really strokes of unimaginable brilliance. Some of them are in jail now. I had lots of friends who worked for places like that, I was fortunate enough not to make that mistake.

I don't know what you're talking about. I never said that you can't question Elon, but just that your characterization of his reasons for wanting to colonize Mars were completely wrong. Though we humans tend to think short term, in the long run, we know that extinction events happen. Elon has never said we should give up on Earth.

I think laying off the entire supercharger team makes no sense whatsoever.

A lot of CEOs are empty suits, but many of them did build their companies and Elon is one of those. Similar to Bill Gates, Jobs, the Google pair, Jensen (nvidia), etc.. He might be turning into a Howard Hughes type character.

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