Using F150, CSP and HIS to discharge to a DC load

[NealG]

I want to extract DC current and use it to power an external DC load (not a house).
Do I need to connect the Microgrid Interconnect device to accomplish this? I am
only configuring the CSP the Delta Inverter and Dark start battery.

Is it necessary to connect the AC connectors on the Inverter to get the system to
extract power from the F150?

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[ZSC100]

The Ford pro charger can do this standalone you just have to trick it into thinking the power went out. All it does is tell the truck to turn on the CCS DC contactor through the j1772 connection. You understand though you can only get 20 amps or so out of it. If you've ever had the cover off the charger you know that it's CCS DC wires are only like 12awg.

 

[mr2urbo004]

The Ford pro charger can do this standalone you just have to trick it into thinking the power went out. All it does is tell the truck to turn on the CCS DC contactor through the j1772 connection. You understand though you can only get 20 amps or so out of it. If you've ever had the cover off the charger you know that it's CCS DC wires are only like 12awg.

How can that be if it does 7.2kw home powering.

 

[ZSC100]

How can that be if it does 7.2kw home powering.

Because it's a direct connection to the battery, so it's 350Volts give or take 25 depending on charge level. 20A * 350V is 7kW.

I have wondered if someone actually went in and replaced the conductors or entire whip with a DCFC whip for the FORD Pro charger if it could actually deliver hundreds of kW from the battery in backup power mode. The charger has small CT's that monitor the current, to protect the little tiny DC wires in the intended charger whip, but there's nothing saying you couldn't tap DC power before those. The BMS may also monitor this too and could open the contactor if it sees any more than a threshold amount. I'd be uber curious to hear/help anyone who wanted to try this. I have a FORD Pro charger but have never used it for anything but standard Level2 charging. I don't have any use for 350V DC,, I don't even know what I would/could power with that, I'd have to contrive something. It would be really cool to feed it directly to a 10horsepower VFD or other motor controller, but again, what would ultimately be doing with the energy???

 

[mr2urbo004]

I see I guess I should have kept my Ford charger Station pro.

 

[tls]

All it does is tell the truck to turn on the CCS DC contactor through the j1772 connection.

I would love to understand the signaling used to do this. If you're going to trick something, why make it the wall charger instead of the truck?

 

[NealG]

The Ford pro charger can do this standalone you just have to trick it into thinking the power went out. All it does is tell the truck to turn on the CCS DC contactor through the j1772 connection. You understand though you can only get 20 amps or so out of it. If you've ever had the cover off the charger you know that it's CCS DC wires are only like 12awg.

20 Amps is ok for now. Can you clue me into how the tricking of the charger done?

 

[ZSC100]

20 Amps is ok for now. Can you clue me into how the tricking of the charger done?

Well, it's not really tricking, but using the charger as intended in "dark start" mode as they call it.

Refer to this PDF:
https://content.fordpro.com/content...ord-Charge-Station-Pro-Installation-Guide.pdf

I think all you may need is to hook up a small battery to the "dark start' battery backup (p.10), then plug in to the truck. The charger should see no AC input and automatically close the HVDC contactor to the charge port. Please report back if this works. The charger does have RS-485 provisions to talk to an inverter, hopefully that link doesn't need to be satisfied before this works, otherwise we'll need a technical manual and details of the protocol to do this.

Report back and let us know.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Some more detailed resources from other members in this forum section:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/forums/back-up-power-for-home.88/

 

[DanielB]

Well, it's not really tricking, but using the charger as intended in "dark start" mode as they call it.

Refer to this PDF:
https://content.fordpro.com/content...ord-Charge-Station-Pro-Installation-Guide.pdf

I think all you may need is to hook up a small battery to the "dark start' battery backup (p.10), then plug in to the truck. The charger should see no AC input and automatically close the HVDC contactor to the charge port. Please report back if this works. The charger does have RS-485 provisions to talk to an inverter, hopefully that link doesn't need to be satisfied before this works, otherwise we'll need a technical manual and details of the protocol to do this.

Report back and let us know.

Has anyone tried this or gotten anything similar working? I want to extract DC via the charge port, and 20 A @ HV battery voltage should be fine. I'd even spend a premium for a FCSP if it's as easy as wiring that up and putting a 12V battery on the dark start terminals. Even better would be getting HV at the CCS connector without needing the FCSP

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...-0-small-adjustments.17006/page-4#post-343064

In this thread there is a discussion about when the HVB contactors are "ON" but I assume that just means the HVB <-> Truck contactors, not the ones to the charge port, right?

My current use-case is local power backup / time-of-use arbitrage via the charge port. I already have the PPO hookup working in lieu of a generator, but having to connect and disconnect two connectors is already becoming too cumbersome (especially since the charger being connected trips the PPO GCFI).

Daniel

 

[ZSC100]

I would love to try this, where are you located, maybe I can make a trip to you and we can hack on it. I'm in Tulsa, OK.

 

[DanielB]

I would love to try this, where are you located, maybe I can make a trip to you and we can hack on it. I'm in Tulsa, OK.

New Hampshire, should only take about 25 hours to drive. Excluding charging stops.

How confident are you this should work? I see a used FCSP on eBay at the moment for around $750. I'm not sure it's the best use of my money, especially given the recent accessory spending on top of stretching the budget to afford the truck in the first place. Spending $750 + wiring + time to save ~$30 a month in electricity arbitrage has a really long payoff.

I'd love it if I could just get a CCS connector and replace the head on one of the chargers I already own instead.

I followed a few threads on OpenInverter, like Drawing power out of CCS port (V2x, inverse charging, bidirectional CCS) but if I can avoid hacking and reflashing Powerline adapters and writing custom code I'd prefer it. Another thing that interested me is the Emporia V2X bi-directional car charger. Not a ton of information but if it lets me extract DC, or maybe even has an AC inverter built in I could make it work.

Daniel

 

[ZSC100]

Ohh, geeze, I go to D.C. often, but you're still 8hrs North of that any chance you come to the Midwest soon?

I have a Pro Charger brand new in box that I've never even hooked up, got it for $750, but have never needed it and so never messed with it. It was actually bought by a friend back in mid 22 before we even really knew what they were or how they worked. I could pull it out and play with it if this will really help you, and the community. I suppose I can hookup a dummy load, 3 halogen bulbs to the DC terminals and give this AC power loss trick a try to see if the DC will turn on easily.

 

[DanielB]

No plans to travel at the moment but I'll keep this thread in mind if I do.

I suspect you could just hit the DC terminals in the FCSP with a volt meter, just be careful 100s of volts of DC is no joke. DC bites and holds way more than equivalent AC does. If the stats are right, my truck is sitting at 367V when charged to 100%.

Do we know for sure that the DC terminals are dead until the contactors are triggered? I'm assuming so, and I'd run out with a voltmeter if it weren't for this:

Edit: I had to move some snow around and I confirmed the two DC CCS pins are dead, even when AC charging. I figured that was the case. If we're lucky just simply using the FCSP + removing AC power with the dark start battery attached will activate the contactors. I suspect there is more to it than that and it somehow needs to be programmed to do that by telling it the HIS is attached but maybe we'll get lucky. There is a chance Ford could remotely brick it even if it does work today.

 

[DanielB]

So...

I might have an option to get some credit for the mobile charger against a deal on the FCSP. If anyone knows if you can have it export DC power from a truck without the rest of the HIS, I'd love to know before shelling out any extra money. The FCSP alone doesn't help me much over a $3xx 48A charger with my SR truck, but the promise of easy DC connection does. Thanks!

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