V2H possible with other equipment?

[Maquis]

That will only work if the EV it is connected to is willing to provide DC power out on DC conductors in a DC fast charger cable or on the AC conductors in a Level II EVSE (how the Lightning provides DC power to the Charge Station Pro).

Current EV system designs cannot support exporting via the AC charge port connection. The Lightning HIS uses DC via the CCS1 connection.

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[123XYZ]

Current EV system designs cannot support exporting via the AC charge port connection. The Lightning HIS uses DC via the CCS1 connection.

Are you sure? I read something on a Ford or Sunrun page saying it used the AC conductors. That stuck in my mind because it seemed odd.

If that's not right, I should correct what I said, but the problem remains the same, persuading the truck to connect those conductors to the battery when what's on the other end is neither an HVDC charger, nor a Sunrun inverter.

 

[tearitupsports]

Are you sure? I read something on a Ford or Sunrun page saying it used the AC conductors. That stuck in my mind because it seemed odd.

If that's not right, I should correct what I said, but the problem remains the same, persuading the truck to connect those conductors to the battery when what's on the other end is neither an HVDC charger, nor a Sunrun inverter.

The Ford HIS system exports power from the truck using DC only. That is why the charge station pro has the CCS connector so the DC pins can be used when in backup mode.

The high voltage DC from the truck goes to the Delta inverter which provides the house with 240 VAC.

Ford and GM have the exact same equipment (other than the charger itself) but both chargers work mostly the same.

For 3rd party companies working on bi-directional charging, all of them will be DC for both charging and discharging the vehicle, because that is all that will work.

Pointguard Energy is going to be the first to market with a product due in April/May. There may be others this year because the standards are coming together.

The only exception to the DC rule is the cybertruck which exports on AC, but that system is proprietary to that vehicle only.

 

[Maquis]

Are you sure? I read something on a Ford or Sunrun page saying it used the AC conductors. That stuck in my mind because it seemed odd.

If that's not right, I should correct what I said, but the problem remains the same, persuading the truck to connect those conductors to the battery when what's on the other end is neither an HVDC charger, nor a Sunrun inverter.

Yes, I’m sure. As detailed in post 33.

 

[windydrew]

I can also confirm that the FCSP can connect to the DC pins on the CCS plug of the Lightning. I was able to power up the backup circuit and the truck sat there waiting on the Bluetooth signal from the delta system comms in order to close the contacts and energize. I'm assuming that once the V2x chargers are finalized, the truck will allow the contacts to close that connect. Not sure anyone has made this happen yet though.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

I have a full home solar battery system - with 115kWh home battery.
The 'easy' way for the truck to back up the system - although certainly not the most efficient, is to run a EG4 Chargeverter from the truck to the house system from the truck box outlet on propower.
The EG4 can run from 240 or 120 volts, and the amperage can be set to not trip the truck breaker.
A major power outage would mean we drop our daily use to 24kWh per day - ie one kW per hour,
And depending where the 115kWh Solar ESS SOC started, we could be set for a few days.
Adding the Truck input, even at 1kWh per hour (120v x 8.3 amp) would on average keep pace with the house loads adding a few days to our main ESS.

The trade off is double conversion losses (Truck DC to AC to EG4 CV back to DC) vs simple connection and set up to the truck. I accept the trade off due to the very low likelihood of needing the backup (maybe once in several years will this be needed?) and it's low cost to me.
I already have two EG4 Chargeverters, so this equipment is not an added cost for me, just the input for the truck which is a genertor wall plug and a manual transfer switch (MTS) to the EG4.

I should test this out and post how it goes, keeping the truck powering the pro-power outlet may be the main obstacle - can the Ford App assist ??

 

[123XYZ]

The Ford HIS system exports power from the truck using DC only. That is why the charge station pro has the CCS connector so the DC pins can be used when in backup mode.

The high voltage DC from the truck goes to the Delta inverter which provides the house with 240 VAC.

Ford and GM have the exact same equipment (other than the charger itself) but both chargers work mostly the same.

For 3rd party companies working on bi-directional charging, all of them will be DC for both charging and discharging the vehicle, because that is all that will work.

Pointguard Energy is going to be the first to market with a product due in April/May. There may be others this year because the standards are coming together.

The only exception to the DC rule is the cybertruck which exports on AC, but that system is proprietary to that vehicle only.

Are the EV manufacturers using a standardized communications protocol for V2H/V2G that will allow products from Pointguard and others to request that the battery be connected to the DC pins in the power cord to power the inverter?

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

Are the EV manufacturers using a standardized communications protocol

Seems unlikely - we still have three different types of EV charger plugs...standardization seems to be lacking so far.

 

[tearitupsports]

Are the EV manufacturers using a standardized communications protocol for V2H/V2G that will allow products from Pointguard and others to request that the battery be connected to the DC pins in the power cord to power the inverter?

I think there are a few things going on.

The current F150, Silverado/Sierra, and Cybertruck all have proprietary protocols/actions to get the sessions started, since their chargers are AC, but DC is needed to extract power.

Pointguard is a DC only charger, and sends or received power only that way. It is initializing a DC charge session using the standard CCS protocol so it works on any CCS or J3400 (NACS) vehicle just like all other DC fast chargers. While the session is active they are just pushing or pulling power as needed. This will likely work on most vehicles now, unless they specifically inhibit the reverse power transfer.

There is also a new standard specific to discharging power from EV's that has been fully ratified. I am unclear if pointguard or any actual vehicles actually adhere to that standard yet.

 

[MountainAlive]

I think there are a few things going on.

The current F150, Silverado/Sierra, and Cybertruck all have proprietary protocols/actions to get the sessions started, since their chargers are AC, but DC is needed to extract power.

Pointguard is a DC only charger, and sends or received power only that way. It is initializing a DC charge session using the standard CCS protocol so it works on any CCS or J3400 (NACS) vehicle just like all other DC fast chargers. While the session is active they are just pushing or pulling power as needed. This will likely work on most vehicles now, unless they specifically inhibit the reverse power transfer.

There is also a new standard specific to discharging power from EV's that has been fully ratified. I am unclear if pointguard or any actual vehicles actually adhere to that standard yet.

I’ve learned from researching the yet to be released, Enphase bi-directional EV charger that the standard is ISO 15118. This is also what the Lightning and Rivian and other EVs use today for making plug and charge possible. It works with both AC and DC I’ve read. Long story short, in theory our trucks already have this protocol for the most part.

 

[cwstnsko]

I’ve learned from researching the yet to be released, Enphase bi-directional EV charger that the standard is ISO 15118. This is also what the Lightning and Rivian and other EVs use today for making plug and charge possible. It works with both AC and DC I’ve read. Long story short, in theory our trucks already have this protocol for the most part.

ISO 15118 is a family of protocols related to EV charging. Since the V2X portions of this protocol are just barely getting to be properly defined, it is very unlikely that the existing programming on our trucks will support ISO standard V2X as they sit. If we a VERY lucky, Ford/Chevy/Rivian may be able to issue an. OTA update to enable support, but I wouldn’t hold you breath waiting on that.
The way that Ford, and Chevy trigger the contacts to close and allow DC power to flow today is most certainly NOT ISO 15118.

 

[MountainAlive]

ISO 15118 is a family of protocols related to EV charging. Since the V2X portions of this protocol are just barely getting to be properly defined, it is very unlikely that the existing programming on our trucks will support ISO standard V2X as they sit. If we a VERY lucky, Ford/Chevy/Rivian may be able to issue an. OTA update to enable support, but I wouldn’t hold you breath waiting on that.
The way that Ford, and Chevy trigger the contacts to close and allow DC power to flow today is most certainly NOT ISO 15118.

 

[v2h8484]

ISO 15118 is a family of protocols related to EV charging. Since the V2X portions of this protocol are just barely getting to be properly defined, it is very unlikely that the existing programming on our trucks will support ISO standard V2X as they sit. If we a VERY lucky, Ford/Chevy/Rivian may be able to issue an. OTA update to enable support, but I wouldn’t hold you breath waiting on that.
The way that Ford, and Chevy trigger the contacts to close and allow DC power to flow today is most certainly NOT ISO 15118.

Just to add that ISO 15118-20 is the specific part of ISO 15118 relevant to bidirectional power transfer. and it has been evolving in draft form for several years now. The voting deadline for the latest amendment was March 7, 2025 but final result is not out yet AFAIK. So, it seems doubtful the finalized standard would be published before 2026. I believe one cause of delay is the support for AC bidirectional power transfer.

 

[Wattsgas]

The Ford Home Integration System doesn't work everytime for everyone. I have the system and it has not worked in over two years. Ford says there is a known issue and they are working on a software solution. Check out the other posts on the forum. I would strongly recommend that you use a generator plug to provide backup power. I have Tesla powerwalls on one home and they have worked flawlessly in over 5 years of use. I was attracted to the Lightning because it was equivalent to more than 10 powerwalls. But it hasn't worked for me, and, Ford has been promising me a software solution since April of 2023. It has functioned properly during an outage only 2 times out of 17 outages. It doesn't often work when I test it. If you check other threads on the forum you will see the dance owners do by pressing the Unlock button and then if that doesn't work unplugging the charge cord and then re-plugging it in. Trust me just go with the generator plug, at least until Ford gets this worked out. Between Delta, Sunrun and Ford no one is responsible except the owner of the HIS and the Lightning, and, the system only works with a Lightning, so how is that going to work out for anyone in the future.

 

[123XYZ]

I think there are a few things going on.

The current F150, Silverado/Sierra, and Cybertruck all have proprietary protocols/actions to get the sessions started, since their chargers are AC, but DC is needed to extract power.

Pointguard is a DC only charger, and sends or received power only that way. It is initializing a DC charge session using the standard CCS protocol so it works on any CCS or J3400 (NACS) vehicle just like all other DC fast chargers. While the session is active they are just pushing or pulling power as needed. This will likely work on most vehicles now, unless they specifically inhibit the reverse power transfer.

There is also a new standard specific to discharging power from EV's that has been fully ratified. I am unclear if pointguard or any actual vehicles actually adhere to that standard yet.

Thanks for the info.

I'd love to be able to use my Lightning for limited home backup power, which doesn't need to meet my full usual power usage for the whole house, just back up the most essential circuits. I'd be happy to it it by installing in the rruck the second 7.2kW inverter that is used in the 9.6kW version of Pro Power on Board if I knew that the truck's software would allow that inverter to operate. I'd also be happy to instal a residential hybrid inverter with gold features, like the ones I mentioned from Fox-ESS, if I knew of a way to get the truck to connect the battery to the CCS DC pins so that power could flow out to the inverter.

I'm disinclined to go the route of the Ford/Sunrun inverter because the cost of all the involved hardware plus installation seems unreasonable.

I'll have to look into the Pointguard DC charger as a way to connect DC from the truck battery to an inverter connected to the house through a transfer switch. If I hear people have gotten that to work, I may jump on that bandwagon. I'm a little concerned that anything marketed as a DC charger will require a large battery, a 400A+ grid connection or both, but I'm off to do my research on that.

Again, I really appreciate the information.

Edited to add: I will be VERY unsurprised if the truck throws 100 errors if there is any drawing of power from the battery through the DC charging pins other than with a Charge Station Pro and the Delta/Sunrun/Ford inverter package.

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