What is more valuable, dual chargers or heat pump for a MN driver?

[TomB985]

I live in Minnesota, and the heat pump would be an easy call for me.

My house only has a 100A panel, so I charge at 48A with an off-peak meter that's active for twelve hours overnight. I can go from 5-90% during those twelve hours which is the absolute worst-case for me. The dual chargers don't help me at all; one of them has never been used!

My efficiency tanks in lower temperatures, though. I'm averaging 2.2 mi/kWh for my rural highway driving in the warmer weather, but I averaged 1.1-1.3 during the worst of winter. This is my fourth EV over the last five years, and only my '19 Model 3 would lose as much range in the winter. The other two had heat pumps, so they did much better in colder weather. The heat pump in my Model Y would bake me out of the car in -5º F weather, which was better than the 6 kW PTC heater in my Model 3.

Without question, the heat pump is a big improvement if you live up north. I'd trade for a '24 if my trade value was halfway reasonable.

Sponsored

 

[Joe.....Montana]

Purchased the Lightning in March then had to drive 315 miles in 15 degree weather...watched in horror as I made the 150 mile journey between last DC fast charger and home...made it safely with some wiggle room...drove 65 with heat off and seat warmers on. Windows started getting a little frosty...would definitely choose heat pump over extra AC charging. Absolutely love the truck though.

 

[farmtruck]

I live in a charging desert. 50 miles to the nearest L3 charger and its only 50kw. If you live in an area like I do, take the dual chargers. Otherwise, the heat pumps would be my pick.

 

[Kev12345]

48 amp charger is fine for overnight charging. Heat pump 100%

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

IMO, the 80 Amp capability of the FCSP is overrated for a home charging solution. I often find myself wishing I'd sold it and installed a lower amperage EVSE. Sometimes I do enjoy having it when I've forgotten to charge before a long trip, but with a bit better discipline I wouldn't need that.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I'm considering buying a Lightning, and am torn between the 2023 and 2024. I live in MN where winters can get quite cold, so the heat pump available in the 2024 sounds like it will help to retain range in the colder temperatures. I've read in the forums that dual onboard AC chargers were removed for the 2024 models. But, I don't understand what the implications would be for me. Does this mean that the 2024s with the single charger will charge more slowly than the 2023s? If so, is it a big enough difference to care? Is there another benefit to dual vs. single chargers that I should know about? Is there enough of a difference that I would want to sacrifice getting the model with the heat pump? To be honest, this stuff is greek to me.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has driven a 2024 in very cold temps. Did the heat pump help to preserve range? Of course, with how warm it was this winter, maybe nobody has had a chance to fully put this to the test!

Thanks for the help with understanding the options!

You’re overthinking it. The unfortunate thing sometimes with EVs is there’s information overload for us.

I have EVs that charge at 48A and 80A. The 80A is nice when I completely forgot to charge the car and need to leave soon, throw it on and get enough juice to run my errands. That happens maybe once or twice a year.

I have EVs with and without heat pumps.
Around town, it makes virtually no difference. Sure it’s more efficient, but range and efficiency is rarely a concern around town. They really come into play when you’re doing big trips in the cold.

Even then, I don’t pick the car I take for those trips based on whether it has a heat pump or whether it has high AC charging speeds. We take the car for those trips based on the highest/fastest DC charging speed as that tends to get us there the fastest.

IMO, pick the year/truck that’s the best deal. All things being equal and if you’re pushing for an answer, I’d take the heat pump over the AC charging speed

**but folks have said the DC charging speed *may* be reduced on the 2024, and I would personally give up the heat pump for the higher DC charging speed.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I think you will discover that the heat pump will probably cost you $4k-$8k more after deals for 2023's are figured out. Is having a heat pump worth that much? I'd say probably not. I also don't think it will pay for itself in energy savings. So additional mileage in cold climates is it's only tangible benefit (it's slower than resistive wire heating at heating the cabin). Remember though, the heat pumps have a sweet spot. Too warm or too cold and it won't benefit you much (and can actually be less efficient than electric wire resistive heating as temperatures drop drastically).

No one knows (yet) how much more efficient the heat pump is, but it's not going to increase your range by 50%. If you precondition while plugged in, before you leave in cold weather (which is a habit everyone should be doing for multiple reasons), that will help because your battery and cabin will be up to nominal temps (without battery loss) before starting your trip (in order to precondition without battery loss, I believe you need a 30a EVSE or greater, this might be lower with the heat pump (from data I recall seeing on this forum long time ago).

Using the heated steering wheel/heated seats for most of your heat would mitigate alot of the gains from the heat pump (I assume). The heated seats alone are worth 10 miles on an SR and, using Ford's same math, it's worth about 14 miles of range on an ER (as shown by Ford's increasing 2023 SR range to 240 from 230 after adding heated seats in the Pro).


IF the heat pump conserves 5% more of your battery (over it's use on a full charge), that feels significant. Remember though, you aren't getting 330mi on an ER in the cold. If you get 220 in the cold, then 5% is 11 miles. Again, is 11 miles of hypothetical extra range (if you use the full battery capacity) worth $4k-$8k more? That is the question I think you should be answering instead of which feature is more important (as neither would stop me from buying either model).

I think if you precondition before leaving in cold weather, and use heated seats/heated steering wheel for most of your temperature comfort, then I doubt the heat pump will make much of a tangible different (no data to back this up, just my hypothesis).

Whichever year you choose, you will enjoy your truck!

 

[Jaspernuts]

MN owner here. Heat pump 100%. I've seen near 50 percent range reduction when it's -15 and driving into a big NW wind.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

MN owner here. Heat pump 100%. I've seen near 50 percent range reduction when it's -15 and driving into a big NW wind.

Heat Pump won't do as much at -15°F, it may actually be less efficient. At 15°F it'd make a difference, but not as drastic as I think you're thinking.

 

[luebri]

MN owner here. Heat pump 100%. I've seen near 50 percent range reduction when it's -15 and driving into a big NW wind.

heat pump is not going to fix that. Winter range reduction is much more than cabin heat use.

On a 2022 or 2023 the resistive heater is 7kw. So if your sub-freezing hwy MPK is 1.6 (that is 210 range on an ER). So at 70 mile per hour you can drive for 3 hours if fully depleting a 100% battery. If for that 3 hours if the heater were 100% max output the whole time at 7 MPK (doubtful) it would have used 21kwh (equivalent to 35 miles of range). So absolute best/exaggerated/extreme case your sub freezing hwy range goes from 210 to 245. Again that is extreme as hell. My guess is it would be more like 210 to 225. (assuming more moderate heat usage)

The bigger question is to what if any benefit there will be to the heat pump help in keeping the HVB warm, but if you are preconditioning and/or charging immediately prior to driving (as you should be) that potential benefit is essentially nothing.

As many other suggested, if you can get any level of savings on a 2023, go with the 2023. If for whatever reason they are the same price. Buy the 2024.

 

[Henry Ford]

@strahanjen, what do you use your current vehicle for? Do you plan on using a new Lightning differently? A particular option may not matter as much as you think. If you don't stretch range, this whole conversation might be moot.

 

[strahanjen]

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. @Henry Ford We’re planning on building a small, off grid cabin in a remote location about 210 miles away. Thus, range will be important to me, though there will be some chargers along the way and within 50 miles of our build location. I’m most interested in the ER battery and the 9.6kW pro power and want to get both for as low a price as possible.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

want to get both for as low a price as possible.

I think you answered your own question. Go find some good deals on 2023's, they exist.

 

[Henry Ford]

I think you answered your own question. Go find some good deals on 2023's, they exist.

Or a used 2022 without deleted features.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I think you will discover that the heat pump will probably cost you $4k-$8k more after deals for 2023's are figured out. Is having a heat pump worth that much? I'd say probably not. I also don't think it will pay for itself in energy savings. So additional mileage in cold climates is it's only tangible benefit (it's slower than resistive wire heating at heating the cabin). Remember though, the heat pumps have a sweet spot. Too warm or too cold and it won't benefit you much (and can actually be less efficient than electric wire resistive heating as temperatures drop drastically).

No one knows (yet) how much more efficient the heat pump is, but it's not going to increase your range by 50%. If you precondition while plugged in, before you leave in cold weather (which is a habit everyone should be doing for multiple reasons), that will help because your battery and cabin will be up to nominal temps (without battery loss) before starting your trip (in order to precondition without battery loss, I believe you need a 30a EVSE or greater, this might be lower with the heat pump (from data I recall seeing on this forum long time ago).

Using the heated steering wheel/heated seats for most of your heat would mitigate alot of the gains from the heat pump (I assume). The heated seats alone are worth 10 miles on an SR and, using Ford's same math, it's worth about 14 miles of range on an ER (as shown by Ford's increasing 2023 SR range to 240 from 230 after adding heated seats in the Pro).


IF the heat pump conserves 5% more of your battery (over it's use on a full charge), that feels significant. Remember though, you aren't getting 330mi on an ER in the cold. If you get 220 in the cold, then 5% is 11 miles. Again, is 11 miles of hypothetical extra range (if you use the full battery capacity) worth $4k-$8k more? That is the question I think you should be answering instead of which feature is more important (as neither would stop me from buying either model).

I think if you precondition before leaving in cold weather, and use heated seats/heated steering wheel for most of your temperature comfort, then I doubt the heat pump will make much of a tangible different (no data to back this up, just my hypothesis).

Whichever year you choose, you will enjoy your truck!

Take some of that $8k savings and invest them in a couple pairs of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Orvis-Fleece-Stretch-Fabric-Inseam/dp/B0CNS5TD2K/

Keeps me plenty warm in single digit temps in the truck.

Sponsored