WHY does EA charge cost VARY, even at the same location??

[hturnerfamily]

...the title proclaims my confusion... and maybe it's not just EA, or maybe I just don't understand the 'charging cost' structure... after 32,000 miles, you would think it would be easy.

A) Electrify America location in Atlanta(Tucker Georgia TARGET parking lot)

B) 4 pedestals - two are 350kwh capable, two are 150kwh

C) the FordPassApp details for the location shows a 37cents p/kwh Charge Cost

Target T1390 (Tucker, GA)station details
4241 Lavista Rd, Tucker, Georgia 30084
Directions
CHARGERS AT THIS STATION

• 01
  
  
  
  Ultra-Fast
  CCS, 150 kW
• 02
  
  
  
  Hyper-Fast
  CCS, 350 kW
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 03
  
  
  
  Hyper-Fast
  CCS, 350 kW
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 04
  
  
  
  Ultra-Fast
  CCS, 150 kW
  
  
  
  

Here's my confusion: I stopped here on two different occasions, on consecutive days. I was charged DIFFERENTLY:

Stop 1..

​

​ Operator: Electrify America Charge Event Start Time: 09/29/2023 9:05 PM EDT Charge Event End Time: 09/29/2023 9:17 PM EDT (speed of 126kwh over 12 minutes)​ ​ Invoice Date: 09/30/2023 Confirmation Number: USADM00610592​ Energy: 23.096 kWh Session fee*: $4.51 (equates to 19.53 cents p/kwh)​

​

​

​

Stop 2..

​

Operator: Electrify America Charge Event Start Time: 09/30/2023 7:14 PM EDT Charge Event End Time: 09/30/2023 7:29 PM EDT (SPEEDS of Only 84kwh, over 15 minutes)​

​

Invoice Date: 09/30/2023 Confirmation Number: USADM00611928​

Energy: 22.064 kWh Session fee*: $6.12 (equates to 27.74 cents p/kwh)​

so, while both of these were LESS than the advertised cost p/kwh, and I'm not complaining about that, in itself, WHY are the charging cost different between the two for almost identical charge KWH... there are no TAXES added, and I see nothing on the supplied Ford EA charge details email that show any other 'fixed' cost, either.

I find it a little annoying, too, that while my first experience on unit #4(which, by the way, is the far LEFT unit, not the far right one, as you might expect), was successful and very FAST at 126kwh, with the battery at roughly 20% at the start, the second charge, at unit #4, with the battery at 48% to start, was a very 'slower' 84kwh max speed, TOOK MUCH LONGER for a similar amount of power, and costs MORE to sit around for longer! Crazy, but maybe I just missed something and others with brighter minds can reveal this.


EA, are you listening??

 

[Maquis]

According to PlugShare, that is a per minute station, not per kWh. So the price per kWh will vary greatly depending on the charge rate. Charge there in a Bolt and see how if calculates out!

And charge rates are defined in KW, not kWh.

 

[TaxmanHog]

According to PlugShare, that is a per minute station, not per kWh. So the price per kWh will vary greatly depending on the charge rate. Charge there in a Bolt and see how if calculates out!

And charge rates are defined in KW, not kWh.

Yup, wish we still had by the minute pricing in Mass.......

 

[RickLightning]

In addition to the misunderstanding that Georgia charges by the minute, not the kW, there is also a misunderstanding about taxes.

In fact you ARE charged taxes every time you charge. The issue is that you're using FordPass and not EA's app to charge. FordPass does not report the sales tax, it is lumped into the total. EA breaks it out. So you have no visibility to how much sales tax you are charged unless you record it off the EA console before it clears after you charge.

Also, while it doesn't apply in this case because you used the same charger, sales tax can vary within a state, just like on other purchases.

When on a trip, I record the info on the screen for my records, and also to verify that EA didn't pass on incorrect costs. Took a short trip yesterday and didn't do that, only one charge each way.

 

[hturnerfamily]

There is confusion on the charge structure, as the unit itself says plainly "37cents p/kwh", just like my FordPassApp shows. Also, the screen, after the charge had finished, also shows $0 taxes, so Ford's email to me translates and relays that the same way EA does on their own screen.

This is certainly not a p/minute station, it is p/kwh... I have never seen an EA station in Georgia, or even Florida, that charges by the minute.

 

[RickLightning]

There is confusion on the charge structure, as the unit itself says plainly "37cents p/kwh", just like my FordPassApp shows. Also, the screen, after the charge had finished, also shows $0 taxes, so Ford's email to me translates and relays that the same way EA does on their own screen.

This is certainly not a p/minute station, it is p/kwh... I have never seen an EA station in Georgia, or even Florida, that charges by the minute.

Post #3 clearly shows you the 37 cents per minute. Georgia is a per minute state. Florida is a per kW state.

You need to WAIT for the screen to show the FINAL screen, where the sales tax is clearly displayed.

I suggest you look at the screen more closely when charging.

 

[Calvin H-C]

Yup, wish we still had by the minute pricing in Mass.......

You've got to be kidding!

Here in Canada, the by the minute ripoff is the norm. Measurements Canada only recently changed the regulations to allow kWh pricing but it will be awhile before it is adopted by charging networks, mostly because Canadians seldom complain through official channels.

Compare this with ICE vehicles... Imagine if a fill up cost $100 and took 5 minutes of pump operation, so they decided to start charging $20 per minute. No big deal since the 5 minute fill up still costs $100.

Then you find if you fill up when it's busy they slow down the flow of gas and it takes 8 minutes to fill up, but this now costs you $160 plus 3 more minutes of your time. That's what by the minute charging does.

One other note, specifically about EA... They were facing a class action lawsuit a few years back by Hyundai Kona owners over the by the minute charging. The price tier was based on the initial handshake with the vehicle where it said what rate it could take. The Kona would say 86 kW and the EA second tier was 75-150, so it would charge that price but rarely deliver above 75 kW. EA's ultimate solution was to change from three tiers to two, with the lower being up to 125 kW.

 

[TaxmanHog]

You've got to be kidding!

Nope ..... once the DPU of Mass allowed them to toll by the KWH, the net cost is double what it was previously by the minute.

This is by the minute---------------------------------This is by the KWH
(ignore erroneous label)

 

[hturnerfamily]

Post #3 clearly shows you the 37 cents per minute. Georgia is a per minute state. Florida is a per kW state.

You need to WAIT for the screen to show the FINAL screen, where the sales tax is clearly displayed.

good to know that I've likely allowed my brain to 'transpose' the true cost from p/minute to p/kwh, although, interestingly, the FordPassApp shows the 'Price' as: "$.037 per hour..." which is likely why my mind computed this as 'p/kwh'...

as for taxes, no, there are none, and none show on the final 'billed' screen from EA, either...
if 12 minutes cost $4.51, then that computes to roughly the $.037 per (minute) pricing... which makes sense, with no 'taxes' involved, at least not here in Georgia.

it looks like all the EA stations here in Georgia are priced exactly the same: $.037 per minute...
Tallahassee FL shows as "$.048 p/kwh" ... not by the minute/hour... but there is also 'tax' there, making it roughly $.50 p/kwh.

I like Georgia EA's better : )

 

[hturnerfamily]

and, as a comparison, two CHARGEPOINT units, down the road at the Tucker Police Headquarters building, advertised at 62.5kw(125kw 'shared', which we know they don't actually provide), and charge a fixed $.048 p/m.... taking a LOT more cash, and a lot SLOWER, for the same charge.

 

[hturnerfamily]

and while I really have liked the EVgo units south of the Atlanta airport, LOOK at these 'variable' pricing...

 

[RickLightning]

Yes, pricing can vary widely.

EA adopted location based fees in late August, everyone got notified both by EA and Ford. That does NOT mean they can charge by the kW instead of by the minute in a state like Georgia, until the state approves it. It DOES mean that you MIGHT find a charger with a different rate.

The other day I was looking at locations in a state, and found ONE city with a higher rate, for no reason.

As to taxes, I believe you are incorrect. I have charged in Georgia quite a few times. In fact, some of my worst EA experiences were in Georgia (Valdosta, Cordele), although Keenesaw was very good.

I can assure you that Ford does not show you the taxes, it's all lumped in, and EA does show you the taxes. I use to use EA, but now use FordPass. My EA history clearly shows the sales tax, unfortunately my GA charges were either problematic (i.e. they didn't charge me, or I didn't capture the sales tax). Cordele and Valdosta have been some of my worst charging experiences, also Lake City, FL.

 

[Maquis]

and, as a comparison, two CHARGEPOINT units, down the road at the Tucker Police Headquarters building, advertised at 62.5kw(125kw 'shared', which we know they don't actually provide), and charge a fixed $.048 p/m.... taking a LOT more cash, and a lot SLOWER, for the same charge.

I think I read somewhere that only 800V vehicles can get the 125KW.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I hate to disagree about 'taxes', but I've seen nothing from any Georgia-based fast chargers where any TAX is added, after the calculation of the power supplied - and, by law, it MUST be shown separately... also, here's something to consider about the NEW tax-based charging law...

• Georgia will require stations to track kilowatt-hour usage and collect a tax for every 11 kwh (effective January 2025).

from the bill, itself:

(a) Except as otherwise provided for in subsection (b), this Act shall become effective on 441 July 1, 2023. 23 SB 146/AP S. B. 146 - 19 - 442 (b) Part II of this Act, which provides for the regulative authority of the Department of 443 Agriculture, and Part III of this Act, relating to revenue and taxation, shall become effective 444 on January 1, 2025.

 

[RickLightning]

I hate to disagree about 'taxes', but I've seen nothing from any Georgia-based fast chargers where any TAX is added, after the calculation of the power supplied - and, by law, it MUST be shown separately... also, here's something to consider about the NEW tax-based charging law...

• Georgia will require stations to track kilowatt-hour usage and collect a tax for every 11 kwh (effective January 2025).

from the bill, itself:

(a) Except as otherwise provided for in subsection (b), this Act shall become effective on 441 July 1, 2023. 23 SB 146/AP S. B. 146 - 19 - 442 (b) Part II of this Act, which provides for the regulative authority of the Department of 443 Agriculture, and Part III of this Act, relating to revenue and taxation, shall become effective 444 on January 1, 2025.

I'm done after this.

The tax is charged separately. It's clearly displayed on the screen of the EA charger, at the end of the session (they show total, then it goes to the screen showing tax).

Ford takes the whole amount, including tax, and shows that on your receipt.

The new law may require Ford to breakout taxes, of course it's a long way away. And that's a new, ridiculously high tax Georgia is adding...

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