Working Pro Power using Generator Lockout Kit to Feed the Whole Panel

[Danface]

The hair dryer thing would cause a short and pop a breaker for the circuit it is on.

Wiring a sub-panel in an out-building is equivalent to what you should be doing through the transfer switch, where the "out building sub-panel" is your circuits in the transfer switch being powered in the house by the Lightning. The neutrals should not be grounded in the sub-panel since they are already grounded at the main panel, in your case, the Lightning, but you still want to have a continuous ground between the Lightning and the sub-panel.

The above illustrates this.

The sub-panel circuits have their neutrals going to the neutral terminals on the neutral bar (right side of sub-panel) but the sub-panel neutral bar is NOT ground at the sub-panel.

Unfortunately many licensed electricians may not be familiar with wiring a generator to a dwelling through a transfer switch, and will not do it correctly. But if they understand it as being like wiring a sub-panel, then they should get it.

A lock-out kit might not be deemed code compliant - it depends.
Your locality may allow it under the exception of NEC 702.5, but the issue is whether it is accessible "only" by "qualified persons."

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702.5 Interconnection or Transfer Equipment
(A) General
Interconnection or transfer equipment shall be required for all standby systems subject to the requirements of this article. Equipment shall be suitable for the intended use and shall be listed, designed, and installed so as to prevent the inadvertent interconnection of all sources of supply in any operation of the equipment. [e.g., a Transfer switch]

Exception: Temporary connection of a portable generator without transfer equipment shall be permitted where conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation and where the normal supply is physically isolated by a lockable disconnecting means or by disconnection of the normal supply conductors.

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702.11 Portable Generator Grounding
(A) Separately Derived System
Where a portable optional standby source is used as a separately derived system, it shall be grounded to a grounding electrode in accordance with 250.30.

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250.30 (A) Grounded Systems

A separately derived ac system that is grounded shall comply with 250.30(A)(1) through (A)(8). Except as otherwise permitted in this article, a grounded conductor shall not be connected to normally non-current-carrying metal parts of equipment, be connected to equipment grounding conductors, or be reconnected to ground on the load side of the system bonding jumper.

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Translation:

The neutral is a grounded conductor.
The dwelling circuits are the load.
The neutral (grounded conductor) shall not be (also) connected to ground at the load.

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Separately Derived System. An electrical power supply output, other than a service, having no direct connection(s) to circuit conductors of any other electrical source other than those established by grounding and bonding connections. (CMP—5)

So it seems to that it comes down to the "Exception" and if the inspector deems the home owner "qualified". IMHO (take that with a grain of salt) the lockout is what makes the end user " qualified" ... why else would it be installed? BTW, thank you for the explanation

 

[Danface]

That concludes my crash course in electrical wiring of generators.

I hope it has been educational and informative.

It should allow you to double-check that your electrician has done things correctly and that your system will be safe and will pass inspection by being in compliance with electrical codes (the NEC) where applicable.

Please be safe when dealing with any electrical equipment on your own, as the risk of injury or death is possible.

If you are not qualified or confident that you know what you are doing, hire a qualified licensed electrical to install your back-up system.

Never work on live (powered) circuits is a good rule of thumb.

Do not rely solely on the information I have provided in my posts, always confirm things with a qualified electrician. The information I have shared I believe to be true and accurate, however, I take no responsibility for any errors or omissions that may have occurred.

There are inherent risks involved in electrical systems so extreme caution is recommended.

I hereby disclaim any and all liability for any harm resulting from the use or misuse of any information I have provided regarding the issue addressed in this forum post thread.

The information I have shared I believe to be true and accurate, but is provided "as is."

Amen!

 

[Tweeker]

I'm interested in installing a Generac 6853 Transfer Switch, but my electrical panel is located outside. Does anyone know if there is an external enclosure that would work with this transfer switch?

 

[IWIRE]

There is another path from the neutral to ground via your body if you touch the truck frame. You will feel a shock and if it is working, the GFCI will open. This is not theory this happened to someone whose electrical installer wired a dwelling under construction and disconnected the ground wire from the truck to the house.

Not having the ground from the generator (truck) to the load (house) panel is a no-no according the code if the house is a dwelling.

For $400 and a little time you could do it right using a Generac 6853 Transfer Switch.
The circuits being transfered have their hot and neutrals connected through the transfer switch so they are not bonded (grounded) to the panel ground when being powered by the generator (truck).

Looking at a different scenario it would appear that the like truck has ability to determine any loss to ground that exceeds 5-6 ma.

If you plug into truck with a 120 volt appliance, say a 3 prong drill motor. You are not shocked touching truck frame, if the drill motor leaked current, and the truck has not been grounded to earth, so it must be evaluating leakage to ground.
Remember in a home you can GFCI a two wire circuit (no grounding conductor) as it recognizes that any current differential between hot and the neutral has to be taking a different path to ground.

So I am not sure you need a ground connection at the house, as the truck has to be evaluating current loss with respect to ground, even in the 120/240, 30 amp configuration.

 

[Danface]

I'll let the inspector decide ...

 

[Formerly]

I too feel that a manual transfer switch with a main lockout is the way to go. All the hardware needed to go with the factory setup is crazy expensive and relies on too much electronics.

Flip a switch, plug in a cord and you're good to go. Wait for the neighbors lights to go on or a phone call from them before flipping off transfer system.

A small ups / uninterrupted power supply can be your automatic inexpensive immediate power source before you flip the switch and plug in the cord.

Generators are going to be a thing of the past. Especially the noise and maintenance factor. Yes, I have multiple generators including 2 trailer based diesels , other portable diesels, propane and natural gas and gasoline generators.

For 50k I have a noiseless generator / power supply that I can drive 99% of the time and park it when and if I need it.

Rick

There's a pretty cool product where the disconnect is at the meter base and it disconnects the neutral and ground as well as the service lines, allowing to maintain the safety of the trucks GFCI feature and protect linesmen in the field

 

[Marcelo Zanetti]

Dwellings have a special section of code - requires a transfer switch.

You don't need a transfer switch if you have an interlock, which will prevent the main circuit breaker to be on at the same time as the 30A circuit breaker back feeding the panel from the truck power, thus preventing back feeding to the grid, which is also one of the purposes of a transfer switch.
You may not find an interlock for your main panel depending on the age of it. but they are available and UL listed, perfectly legal.

 

[Danface]

You don't need a transfer switch if you have an interlock, which will prevent the main circuit breaker to be on at the same time as the 30A circuit breaker back feeding the panel from the truck power, thus preventing back feeding to the grid, which is also one of the purposes of a transfer switch.
You may not find an interlock for your main panel depending on the age of it. but they are available and UL listed, perfectly legal.

Its a brand new 200 amp panel with a brand new interlock on it. Installed by a licensed electrician and UL approved ta boot!

Works awesome and I get to choose what gets fed. Ran the house on it with a minisplit running and it was pulling 1.2 kWh total ... .66 on one leg and .54 on the other

 

[Marcelo Zanetti]

Its a brand new 200 amp panel with a brand new interlock on it. Installed by a licensed electrician and UL approved ta boot!

Works awesome and I get to choose what gets fed. Ran the house on it with a minisplit running and it was pulling 1.2 kWh total ... .66 on one leg and .54 on the other

Awesome. I am doing the same on my house on the near future...

Thanks,

 

[Danface]

 

[Danface]

We have 2 minisplits, one with a single head for the whole house and one with 3 heads, one in each bedroom. I was able to run the one single headed one without issue and generally I don't run both at the same time and usually only a single head of the three headed one (in the main bedroom)

 

[Marcelo Zanetti]

="Danface, post: 4]

Did a little test last Saturday, left the truck powering the house overnight for about 10.5 hours and it only spent 19% of the HVB power.

 

[Danface]

Did a little test last Saturday, left the truck powering the house overnight for about 10.5 hours and it only spent 19% of the HVB power.

Fantastic, thanks for the info! I'd guesstimate a similar usage number for powering my house (as long as no one runs a hair dryer ). The lockout is way to go!

 

[Marcelo Zanetti]

. The lockout is way to go!

Or Cloths Dryer... if electric, mine is gas...
100% agreed on the interlock...

 

[Jasper7821]

I am wanting to install a interlock. My right top breaker is my dryer, so that has to be relocated and the 50 amp generator breaker mounted there.
reading through all the posts, I'm confused about the ground. Do all 4 wires get used from the inlet box to the panel? meaning the ground to the panel ground?

I was looking at something like this
8000-13000 Watt Generator Interlock Kit w/ Inlet Box for Square D Homeline Panel | eBay


And a cable like this
https://www.amazon.com/Generator-Ex...p+generator+backup+cable,aps,119&sr=8-19&th=1

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