Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[greenne]

dragging stuff up from nine years ago, fully repaid and acting like it is relevant? And $14.7 million of local incentives - like Tesla really cares about pennies? Wow, just wow.

Well, if Tesla doesn't care about it then let them decline the offer..

Oh wait.. there's Elon's (and your) hypocrisy again...

Without DOE assistance(in the past) Tesla wouldn't exist....that's a fact. I don't blame them for taking it, but quit acting like Tesla's success is completely free of government assistance.

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[greenne]

Yeah I just love how everyone uses Tesla as the basis for argument--whether it be to end tax credits or to get rid of dealers. Except the facts keep getting in the way.

1. The government propped up Tesla when they needed it, provided EV incentives to get the first customers "in the door", and continues to provide tax incentives for their activities.

2. Everyone raves about the direct sales as if thats going to decrease prices. The opposite has occurred with prices increasing drastically this year. Also, you never know with Lord Elon if he's going to take features away, charge for additional features, or change the product in some way on a whim. The only thing constant as YOU as the consumer have no choice to pay up as you cannot switch dealers, bargain for a lower price.

 

[greenne]

Until they didn't.

Don't forget the famous Elon "bait and switch". Get people interested with a $35,000 version of the Model 3, only to make it hard to get for consumers and strip it to the bones so no one wants it. Then get rid of it for lack of demand. The old Elon con game......

Tesla reportedly won’t sell the $35,000 Model 3 anymore - The Verge

 

[shutterbug]

Quit acting like Tesla ain't got their hand out for government money...

All companies are eager to receive government handouts. Tesla and Musk aren't any different. That's why I oppose all "incentives", but like everyone else, I'll take advantage of whatever is available to me. There's point listing any of them. They are all bad.

 

[shutterbug]

Don't forget the famous Elon "bait and switch". Get people interested with a $35,000 version of the Model 3, only to make it hard to get for consumers and strip it to the bones so no one wants it. Then get rid of it for lack of demand. The old Elon con game......

Frankly, I would never buy a Tesla for reasons too numerous to list. I do, however, give them credit for producing the first decent EV. This while GM gave us Spark EV and Ford gave us FFE. Not too mention all the craptacular EVs from other OEMs

1. The government propped up Tesla when they needed it, provided EV incentives to get the first customers "in the door", and continues to provide tax incentives for their activities.

So? Other OEMs also had the same opportunity. No one forced GM to create Spark EV.

2. Everyone raves about the direct sales as if thats going to decrease prices. The opposite has occurred with prices increasing drastically this year. Also, you never know with Lord Elon if he's going to take features away, charge for additional features, or change the product in some way on a whim. The only thing constant as YOU as the consumer have no choice to pay up as you cannot switch dealers, bargain for a lower price.

I, for one, am not a fan of Tesla sales model, and as I said, would not buy a Tesla.
.

 

[shutterbug]

Subsidies are effective in increasing sales and production of EV's. Improving US Federal tax credit will increase sales and production of EV's. The goal.

Are you suggesting that EVs (including Tesla) should be subsidized forever, or is there some limit to them?

ZEV credit provide a $500M a year subsidy to Tesla.

I agree. All subsidies should be removed. Any company worth billions should not be getting government handouts. They also shouldn't be receiving government guaranteed loans.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Then let the CARB states pay for the subsidy.

The ICE mfgs pay for the CARB subsidies not taxpayers.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Are you suggesting that EVs (including Tesla) should be subsidized forever, or is there some limit to them?

When we reach the greenhouse gas reductions necessary for survival, then we can stop subsidizing EV’s and other solutions.

 

[EaglesPDX]

The base price for credit-qualifying EVs is inflated by the amount of available credits.

That’s more ideology than fact. The fact is the battery at around $10k for a 75kWh is the single biggest cost differential, controls, motors, wiring etc easily get to the $15-$20k cost differential we see between ICE and EV. Volume also has a part to play making all the EV models more expensive until volume matches ICE.

As to how mfg.s price EV’s, Tesla gets not subsidy yet is $60k for Model Y vs. $56k for MachE with a bigger battery which gets the subsidy. Evidence says pricing is weakly related to the subsidy while purchasing is heavily influenced by the subsidy.

 

[Hemitoeco]

When we reach the greenhouse gas reductions necessary for survival, then we can stop subsidizing EV’s and other solutions.

Exactly. How do people not realize this? According to AOC we only have 8 years left to cut em missions in half or else the world will end. I’m calling for $1,000,000 fines to those not driving an EV.

 

[Hemitoeco]

. Evidence says pricing is weakly related to the subsidy while purchasing is heavily influenced by the subsidy.

This is correct. Subsidies are everything. Tesla hasn’t had subsidies in 2021 and Ford has. Tesla ONLY sold 7x more model Ys than Mach Es. ONLY SEVEN TIMES. Without a subsidy and giant fine to ICE drivers, these vehicles will never sell.

 

[Snakebitten]

I wonder what the target actually is for declaring that we have accomplished saving the planet and mankind?

The measurement. The scientific value of something.

I mean if we have some measurement that was THE threshold that we crossed at some point, then we know when we succeeded in falling below it.

So THAT target is THE target and we will know we've subsidized enough?

Everyone knows that's not how this is ever going to work.

 

[EaglesPDX]

How do people not realize this?

They let personal bias overcome science and logic and self preservation. For some it's money, their income is tied to fossil fuels or equipment using it. For others it's religious. For others it's political. What are your reasons?

 

[EaglesPDX]

Tesla hasn’t had subsidies in 2021

In 2021 Tesla will report:

ZEV credits $500M a year
Local State tax breaks $500M(+/-) a year.

 

[Hemitoeco]

In 2021 Tesla will report:

ZEV credits $500M a year
Local State tax breaks $500M(+/-) a year.

excellent. So we are in agreement. The federal government has no business picking winners and losers. Leave that to state governments.

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