Uh, Oh... looks like the EV tax credits are hitting an obstacle

[shutterbug]

When we reach the greenhouse gas reductions necessary for survival, then we can stop subsidizing EV’s and other solutions.

So, basically never.

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[bboy_72]

The biggest polluter in the world by a large margin is China. They will never do anything about it as it is one of the main reasons that they produce things so cheaply ( along with paying workers next to nothing and having almost zero safety standards).

There is a reason that the US and Canada have almost no metal production plants - the pollution reduction systems cost so much money to install and maintain that it is better for them to produce it somewhere else and import it.

It's complicated. In terms of CURRENT emissions, yes, China leads (NOT per capita, though, interestingly). In terms of TOTAL emissions, China does NOT lead - not by a long shot.
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-china-the-main-climate-change-culprit/a-57777113

 

[bboy_72]

The biggest polluter and contributor to global warming is the US. While China has caught up to US in current emissions, US has 100 years of industrial emissions head start. Plus China's per capita emissions are 7 tons, US is 15 tons. Fair to say if US matched China's per capita, US would reduce it's emissions 50%.

It is the legit argument of developing nations like China that they are being asked to build up an industrial base with much greater restraints than in US and EU had in their developmental years. Also, another county's emissions don't give a country a pass. Each country has to reduce green house gas emissions. US, since it contributed so much to the problem and is so wealthy, should lead the way, not hide behind false comparisons.

China also leads in sustainable energy solutions from EV's to electric trains (12,000 miles vs. US 1,200 miles of high speed electric trains) to solar panels to inverters to batteries to wind mills.

This is a pretty accurate take. Thank you.

 

[Snakebitten]

I feel so guilty for being born after electricity and indoor plumbing was invented. Add to that the dismay of being birthed on this continent. And insult to injury, Texas of all spots.
But to square things and obsolve me of such, all I have to do is accept $thousands from..... well, who's money is debatable, and purchase a Ford Lightning.

I'm in!

Just messing with you folks. ?
We are an entertaining species.

 

[TF1000]

I wonder what the target actually is for declaring that we have accomplished saving the planet and mankind?

The measurement. The scientific value of something.

I mean if we have some measurement that was THE threshold that we crossed at some point, then we know when we succeeded in falling below it.

So THAT target is THE target and we will know we've subsidized enough?

Everyone knows that's not how this is ever going to work.

From COP26 "Secure global net zero by mid-century and keep 1.5 degrees within reach"

 

[Snakebitten]

OK. Whatever exactly that means.
But is there consensus?
(I had to ask)

 

[TF1000]

OK. Whatever exactly that means.
But is there consensus?
(I had to ask)

Consensus among scientists? Yes. Among everyone else? Of course not.

 

[Snakebitten]

For some reason I don't think all scientists would agree. They don't now, so why would they then?

Climate Change is too powerful to ever be retired

 

[RidetheLightning]

Searched this thread for “wife” before I wrote this and didn’t find any mention of the Honeybut Effect on EV adoption with tax credits. I wonder how many were able to convince their wife/husband to get an EV that’s more expensive than its ICE counterpart by pointing out that they get up to $7500 back from the government and X amount back from their state for doing so? “Honey, but I get X dollars back!”

 

[FordLightning]

I was promised global warming. I am still waiting for all the benefits.

I purposely bought a house in MD and inland from the bay by 10 miles knowing that someday my property value will increase once it has the climate equivalent to FL and as it transitions to waterfront.

I also made short bets on waterfront real estate where most celebrities seem OK to still live…and the values of these houses are still going up. Heck, even Biden is OK living near the beach. If I believed in this stuff, I would dump that land tomorrow.

This thread is not supposed to be dedicated to global warming/cooling as our greatest risk is China winning the economic war…look at what FoxConn is doing in cars (Fiskar, Lordstown, Stellantis, Geely, EV platforms, etc.)

The reason I am not a big fan of rebates is they take money from the poor and transfer the wealth to people who don’t need it.

 

[Hemitoeco]

Searched this thread for “wife” before I wrote this and didn’t find any mention of the Honeybut Effect on EV adoption with tax credits. I wonder how many were able to convince their wife/husband to get an EV that’s more expensive than its ICE counterpart by pointing out that they get up to $7500 back from the government and X amount back from their state for doing so? “Honey, but I get X dollars back!”

And then ultimately not get the tax credit because they didn’t understand how it works.

 

[MikePinkston]

And then ultimately not get the tax credit because they didn’t understand how it works.

I'm glad you edited and deleted the first half of your post.

 

[gorwell]

This thread is not supposed to be dedicated to global warming/cooling as our greatest risk is China winning the economic war

Winning an economic war against China is not our greatest risk. It is climate change which is already present for many people in the US and the world. However, not addressing climate change as the #1 issue is the American way, just push it down to the next generation when it becomes even more of a money sink and health issue than it is now.



Fires / Air Quality:

“The fires we’ve seen this summer are not wind-driven events that we typically see in the fall; they are primarily dry fuel-driven events,” Scott Strenfel, director of PG&E meteorology, said in a statement. “Climate change impacts have led to more frequent heat waves, extreme drought, and millions of dead and dying trees, which have created elevated wildfire risk.”

“The fact is that forest management is not stopping weather- and climate-driven fires,” said Chad Hanson, a forest and fire ecologist and the president of the John Muir Project.

https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-c...ections-of-a-record-fire-year-in-the-us-west/

https://www.latimes.com/california/...change-is-now-main-driver-of-wildfire-weather

https://www.latimes.com/projects/wildfire-california-fuel-breaks-newsom-paradise/

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/21/western-wildfire-smoke-reaches-east-coast-hurts-air-quality.html


Heat Waves:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/10/05/canada-disastrous-impact-extreme-heat
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...west-heat-dome-already-has-clear-climate-link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Western_North_America_heat_wave

"An international team of climate scientists said in July that the magnitude of the BC heat dome was made 150 times more likely as a result of climate change. Two other heatwaves followed in July and August. With Canada warming at twice the global rate, or even three times in northern parts of the country, heatwaves are expected to become more frequent and more intense."


Power failures:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/climate/texas-power-grid-failures.html
https://time.com/5940491/texas-power-outage-climate/
https://www.tpr.org/environment/202...ng-a-toll-on-texas-will-the-energy-grid-adapt

"The Texas electricity grid failed because it wasn’t ready for climate change. With more extreme weather on the horizon, experts say the grid needs to adapt.
"

"The cascade of failures in Texas signals what is perhaps the greatest challenge ahead in this climate-changed world: accepting that business as usual isn’t working. Across the planet, humans have built civilization to withstand the vagaries of a 20th century climate. The extreme weather events of the 21st century will look nothing like those that came before—and hundreds of years of past preparation will not suffice. “The future is not going to be like the past,” says Melissa Finucane, a co-director of the Rand Climate Resilience Center. “If we could just plan a little better, we could anticipate some of these problems.”"

https://www.latimes.com/environment...res-burn-pge-ceo-promises-fixes-boiling-point

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/climate/heat-climate-health-risks.html


Flooding:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/21/florida-climate-crisis-sea-level-habitat-loss

"By any estimation, Florida is drowning. In some scenarios, sea levels will rise up to 31in by 2060, a devastating prediction for a region that already deals regularly with tidal flooding and where an estimated 120,000 properties on or near the water are at risk. The pace of the rise is also hastening, scientists say – it took 31 years for the waters around Miami to rise by six inches, while the next six inches will take only 15 more."

http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/202...taking-bold-action-to-increase-its-resilience

https://19january2017snapshot.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/climate-change-la.pdf

Changing climate is also likely to increase the risk of inland
flooding. Since 1958, the amount of precipitation falling during
heavy rainstorms has increased by 27 percent in the Southeast,
and the trend toward increasingly heavy rainstorms is likely to
continue. Moreover, the amount of rainfall in the Midwest is also
likely to increase, which could worsen flooding in Louisiana,
because most of the Midwest drains into the Mississippi River.


You could go on forever at this time, given how severe the impact has been because of climate change.

The reason I am not a big fan of rebates is they take money from the poor and transfer the wealth to people who don’t need it.

Per the obvious issue of climate change above -- we need every incentive to move from burning fuels for energy. That includes tax credits for EVs. But, Manchin, who is the biggest road block, would likely prefer it if we ran cars on Coal (which is the single biggest factor in emissions).

However, I do believe as written, they should have stricter income/price limits so the rich aren't receiving benefits they do not need. E.g..

$150K/$300K Income limit for receiving it.

Anything smaller than a Truck should cap at $50K. Truck ~$70K. Both of which should decrease overtime as EVs become more affordable.

 

[F150ROD]

The last thing I think about when considering an EV is climate change. First thing? Not having to get up in the morning or stop by the gas station after work. The Second thing? The Instant Torque? Third thing? LowKey drag racer Fourth thing? No maintenance Fifth Thing? Free HOV access

All this climate change talk is making laugh because I’m almost positive it’s the last thing most EV buyers think about but then want to act like they are doing for the best interest of others…lmao

 

[F150ROD]

I was promised global warming. I am still waiting for all the benefits.

I purposely bought a house in MD and inland from the bay by 10 miles knowing that someday my property value will increase once it has the climate equivalent to FL and as it transitions to waterfront.

I also made short bets on waterfront real estate where most celebrities seem OK to still live…and the values of these houses are still going up. Heck, even Biden is OK living near the beach. If I believed in this stuff, I would dump that land tomorrow.

This thread is not supposed to be dedicated to global warming/cooling as our greatest risk is China winning the economic war…look at what FoxConn is doing in cars (Fiskar, Lordstown, Stellantis, Geely, EV platforms, etc.)

The reason I am not a big fan of rebates is they take money from the poor and transfer the wealth to people who don’t need it.

China and their partners are slowly but surely screwing us with this semiconductor shortage. But the majority of the blame should go to manufacturers who for some reason didn’t see this coming…

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