Towing With An Electric Truck - Is It Cheaper Than Gas? Rivian R1T vs Ford F-150 PowerBoost

[Mr. Flibble]

this would be an awesome solution for those that don't tow often. could be a rental from the dealer.

I think that is what the intent would be, and to be honest, it would be perfect for our needs. I just hope Ford decides to go through with it, because the idea is brillant.

I don't think it will give as much range as a typical F150 Powerboost when towing, a complete random guess would be an additional 50% of range while towing. This is based off guesses around the size of the engine in the box, and if it is hooked up to the Pro Power in the bed, and it having a reverse capacity of 7.2 kW (same as output).

Some things that would change my complete wild guesses:

• Being that the engine is built to charge a battery, it could run in the ideal RPM/Power range and always remain in exactly that needed range, so it might output quite a lot more than that.
• The Pro Power Onboard could possibly accept a lot more input power than I am guessing
• The actual hookup for the range extender could have nothing at all to do with the Pro Power Onboard, and be hooked up elsewhere.

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[LightningShow]

I posted about using a generator as a range extender a few months back. You could add 200+ miles a day with normal driving, it would be less with towing but it depends a lot on what you're towing, how big the range extender/generator is, etc.

ETA: This relies on being able to charge while driving which, I assume, Ford would only allow with their own hardware so they can charge and arm and a leg for it.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

I posted about using a generator as a range extender a few months back. You could add 200+ miles a day with normal driving, it would be less with towing but it depends a lot on what you're towing, how big the range extender/generator is, etc.

ETA: This relies on being able to charge while driving which, I assume, Ford would only allow with their own hardware so they can charge and arm and a leg for it.

TBH, I don't really blame them. Not that there would be a lot of competition for something that I assume would normally be rented from a dealership. I wonder if you could get more range with a perfectly tuned motor? Unlike a normal generator, which would have a range, you could tune the engine for a very narrow power/efficiency band - assuming it is worth the cost to do so.

 

[FlasherZ]

Also the amount of time involved in charging is going to be a huge hit unless the trip is short. We just drove over 600 miles with the Mach-E, only charging 3 times. We spent just a hair over 2 hours charging, which added 18% in time to the trip.

This is where Tesla shines right now and everyone else will have to catch up. Newer Teslas can put 200 miles on the car in just about 20 minutes which would cut your charge time in half. Line that up with your meal times, and it's an effective net-zero unless you're the pump, pee, and go type. I can't be because of a family of 6.

 

[{tpc}]

I posted about using a generator as a range extender a few months back. You could add 200+ miles a day with normal driving, it would be less with towing but it depends a lot on what you're towing, how big the range extender/generator is, etc.

ETA: This relies on being able to charge while driving which, I assume, Ford would only allow with their own hardware so they can charge and arm and a leg for it.

I think there would be some feedback/technical/safety issues to allow this type of charge while driving.

Ultimately I think the future is wireless charging built into the road. I think there is talk of doing it or it’s actually being tested or done somewhere now. But until we can build a road that doesn’t break down over time, I don’t see it as viable.

Maybe short stretches of road. Again the limiting factors are x-y placement to the road. You would need something like lane centering that held pretty perfectly and a stretch of road that doesn’t change height (distance from vehicle to the road).

A more viable solution is battery’s that hold more capacity with less weight and more efficient motors. That takes time but look how far we have come already. Ford had a fully battery powered truck (a ranger iirc) like 20 years ago or something like that. It was terrible lol, but they had it. Just takes some time.

 

[RickLightning]

I think there would be some feedback/technical/safety issues to allow this type of charge while driving.

Ultimately I think the future is wireless charging built into the road. I think there is talk of doing it or it’s actually being tested or done somewhere now. But until we can build a road that doesn’t break down over time, I don’t see it as viable.

Maybe short stretches of road. Again the limiting factors are x-y placement to the road. You would need something like lane centering that held pretty perfectly and a stretch of road that doesn’t change height (distance from vehicle to the road).

A more viable solution is battery’s that hold more capacity with less weight and more efficient motors. That takes time but look how far we have come already. Ford had a fully battery powered truck (a ranger iirc) like 20 years ago or something like that. It was terrible lol, but they had it. Just takes some time.

Michigan is proceeding on a pilot for wireless inductive charging. Announced last year, they selected a firm in February.

https://www.enr.com/articles/53565-...wireless-vehicle-charging-road-infrastructure

Furthering the state's planned transition to all-electric fleet operations, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer announced last week that the Michigan Dept. of Transportation (MDOT) has selected Israel-based start-up Electreon to develop and pilot a wireless inductive charging road system for electric vehicles in the state.

The wireless charging system will be the first public infrastructure of its kind in the U.S. to dynamically charge vehicles while they are stationary and in motion. MDOT will provide $1.9 million in funding toward the pilot project as outlined in an RFP, with Electreon required to match that funding by 25% once under contract. Funding does not include additional investment by project partners.

"As we aim to lead the future of mobility and electrification by boosting electric vehicle production and lowering consumer costs, a wireless in-road charging system is the next piece to the puzzle for sustainability," Gov. Whitmer said in a press release about the state's selection of Electreon. With the state's "Big Three" automakers—Ford, GM and Chrysler—all scaling up their electric vehicle offerings and technology development, Whitmer said Michigan's electric vehicle technology investments are driving "new business opportunities and high-tech jobs."

The pilot is targeted to launch 2023 on a 1-mile road stretch in Detroit. NextEnergy, DTE Energy, Kiewit and Jacobs Engineering Group have all been tapped as collaborators on the development of the project.

Charging the Future
Electreon points to its successfully deployed wireless charging projects in Israel, Sweden, Germany and Italy as proof that the in-road system is durable in various weather conditions and adaptable to several usage cases.

In Israel, Electreon utilizes its wireless charging as a monthly subscription service to charge a large fleet of buses.

For Michigan's pilot, Electreon is expected to serve in a more operational role to manage the installation, design and evaluation of the system for MDOT.

"This is not a pilot for the sake of doing a pilot," Electreon vice president Stefan Tongur says. The pilot presents an opportunity to create a "living lab that can demonstrate use cases and grow from there."

The system works using a series of copper wireless charging coils installed under the road to transfer energy to a receiver that can be connected to any electric vehicle battery. The result is a reduced need for larger more expensive batteries in some electric cars while extending the battery reach of others, Tongur says.

Because electric vehicles must be integrated with Electreon's wireless receiver to be charged on the road, the Michigan pilot will focus on integrating the technology with fleet vehicles such as busses and delivery trucks over consumer vehicles.

"Ultimately, I would say the vision is that these electric roads can support and enable charging for any type of vehicle," Tongur says. "We are calling it an open charging platform because that helps with higher utilization of the infrastructure compared to the energy required for stationary charging platforms. Once we build them for buses and delivery trucks, then you can open the system up for the public and it will makes sense."

The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides $7.5 billion to help develop a national network of 500,000 stationary electric vehicle chargers to help ease the consumer transition from gas to electric cars. Last week, U.S. Rep. Brenda Lawrence introduced a bill to create a $50-million grant funding program in the federal Department of Transportation that will also help cover the cost of wireless electric vehicle charging projects in states.

"We are thrilled to see how Electreon's proposals become a nationwide model for how we can continue accelerating electric vehicle adoption and usher in a new generation of transportation technologies," said Trevor Pawl, Michigan's chief mobility officer in a press release about the state's pilot program.

 

[{tpc}]

See I thought someone was doing it lol. I know a little bit about this stuff, and it will be interesting to see it in action.

Suffice to say it is extremely complicated.

 

[LightningShow]

Wireless inductive charging seems much better suited for parking spaces than roadways. Not only are parking spaces less subject to the abuse of roadways but cars spend 10X as much time parked as they do driving.

 

[RickLightning]

Wireless inductive charging seems much better suited for parking spaces than roadways. Not only are parking spaces less subject to the abuse of roadways but cars spend 10X as much time parked as they do driving.

I guess the people doing the pilot don't agree.

 

[LightningShow]

I guess the people doing the pilot don't agree.

That doesn't mean much.

 

[RickLightning]

Yeah, I guess if they're spending millions of dollars they'd be testing something that isn't practical for the real world.

Michigan is at the forefront of testing new automotive technologies in the real world. Years ago we took part in a multi-year test where our vehicles were outfitted with data collection and transmitting devices that helped pave the way for the driver assist technology we have today. We have an entire "city" built a few miles away for that purpose also.

 

[LightningShow]

Yeah, I guess if they're spending millions of dollars they'd be testing something that isn't practical for the real world.

Yes, it's called Research & Development. It happens every day.

 

[{tpc}]

Look I don’t want to argue about it, I’ve seen the challenges of it first hand.

Not to say it can’t be done or won’t be, just a challenge.

Think about iPhone 11 and iPhone 12. Both have inductive charging, but only 12 has magnets that align it perfectly every time.

It isn’t because it’s cool or they had extra magnets around…

 

[Kev12345]

Yeah, I guess if they're spending millions of dollars they'd be testing something that isn't practical for the real world.

easy to waste money on dumb projects like this when its all payed for by green government grants. inductive charging roads will never happen. the never ending maintenance would be insane. faster charging is much easier and cheaper especially now that everything seems to be moving towards 800v.

 

[vandy1981]

easy to waste money on dumb projects like this when its all payed for by green government grants. inductive charging roads will never happen. the never ending maintenance would be insane. faster charging is much easier and cheaper especially now that everything seems to be moving towards 800v.

Yeah, don't see a need for this. Inductive charging makes more sense for parking spots or taxi/rideshare queues.

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