Is the F150 Lightning a local commuter (based on real world data)?

[RickLightning]

Big caution on using the Ford Mobile charger with a dryer outlet. Dryer outlets are normally on a 30amp breaker, with wiring for that amount of power. The Ford Mobile charger is rated at 32amps. That requires a 40amp breaker, and the wiring for it. Pulling 32 amps from a dryer outlet may pop a breaker, or it may melt an outlet or wiring or cause a fire.

Never use a dryer outlet to charge unless the EVSE is pulling lower than the circuit is designed for.

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[Easycamper]

With PlugShare one can filter based on user rating of the station and rated power. These are all CCS stations rated 10/10 with a minimum capability of 120 kW.

(Obviously zoom in for detail in your area. This is just an example.)

 

[Theo1000]

Big caution on using the Ford Mobile charger with a dryer outlet. Dryer outlets are normally on a 30amp breaker, with wiring for that amount of power. The Ford Mobile charger is rated at 32amps. That requires a 40amp breaker, and the wiring for it. Pulling 32 amps from a dryer outlet may pop a breaker, or it may melt an outlet or wiring or cause a fire.

Never use a dryer outlet to charge unless the EVSE is pulling lower than the circuit is designed for.

But does it pull 32 amps. It think it is closer to 30 amps. I have used it without a problem for a while now at a trailer park for the MachE. Will have to see what the Lighting EVSE pulls.

In any case there are 30 amp EVSE for ~$200 if that is an issue. I usually buy cheapo EVSE that I don't care if it lives in the unprotected frunk.

 

[RickLightning]

If it pulls 30 then a 30 amp circuit is inadequate.

The Ford Mobile charge spec sheet refers to a 50amp breaker and a 14-50 outlet.

Let's say it pulls 28 amps as some have claimed (with the Mach-E anyway). That means it needs a 28 x 1.25 = 35amp breaker, i.e. a 40amp breaker. Ford says 50amp.

Don't use a 30amp dryer circuit unless you want to buy your friend/relative a new house/wiring job / outlet.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I've road tripped in a 60mpe(at best) 2015 Nissan LEAF for several years, when needed.
I found chargers in the southeast to be adequate for the times, and GeorgiaPower/Chargepoint and even ElectrifyAmerica have made it work.
I'll not go into what each individual thinks is 'ok' as far as range, charging times, etc., but if you REALLY want it to work, it will.
As battery power progresses, and even as motors get even more efficient, we'll see nothing but good news in our futures.

I plan on using the LIGHTNING as a daily 'commuter', and have NO issues whatsoever with my 240v 30amp Mobile Charger being the 'charger of preference' 99% of the time. The relatively FEW times I will ever have to access DC FAST CHARGING, on lengthy trips, will be so seldom, I don't really worry about it. I know the infrastructure is coming.

 

[Silent_Thunder]

I wouldn't panic.

Keep in mind that the two forum members that have had the most experience with the Lightning (@Silent_Thunder and @oneguynick) are both coming from the Tesla ecosystem. Their complaints with the CCS charging infrastructure are valid, but their issues would have been mitigated with a few minutes of trip planning on ABRP and PlugShare before departure. Familiarity with the CCS charging infrastructure will also give a better sense of which networks, routes and locations are most reliable. It's not going to be a jump-in-and-go- without-planning experience like you have with a Tesla, but taking a few minutes to plan your trip isn't that onerous.

It's also a new vehicle and your comfort with discharging deep into the pack will increase as you become more familiar with it.

I had a lot of anxiety when I started road tripping my I-Pace 2 years ago, but barely any now. I exclusively rely on Electrify America because it's been very reliable for me. I can get anywhere I need to go and I'm in a charger-deficient area of the country.

You’re right! We didn’t plan as this is typically a short trip for us (139 miles each way). We’re definitely going to pay closer attention and do a little of our own routing until we have a couple thousand miles under belt, rather than a couple hundred!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

The core question - is the lightning ready for a family that takes moderate road trips often without serious stress (3-6 hour trips, 1-4 times a month).

I know you said from non-Tesla owners, but you're excluding a very important data point. While you enjoy your TM3, I purchased a Tesla when the SC network was just being introduced. I dealt with inconsistent superchargers, lack of integrated route planning, limited to 120kw charging, not many SCs in general etc. all on a 218 mi Model S and eventually a 237 mi Model X.

As for your other concerns, I live in a Zone 2 climate, and I have an enclosed V-Nose trailer that I towed with some regularity. I've driven my MX internationally to both the northern and southern borders and we did regular 3 hour - 6 hour round trip day trips.

Given that data, I find it extremely relevant to the F150L and to answer your question? The answer is yes I believe it's ready. Will it be as easy as the TM3? No. But will it be filled with stress? Not really. Download plug share and I'm sure you'll be fine. Perhaps you'll find it to be more of a pain than I do since I've already lived through it.

 

[Nate977p]

Just get a Model Y, I don’t think this truck is what you need.

The other good thing for us early adopters is that for some months or even a year it will be easy to sell our trucks without much penalty. The supply is low and the demand is high. Try it- if you don't like it, sell it without much loss.

That’s my take. You get the tax credit and should be able to sell at a good price. It will be a relatively inexpensive way to try it out.

A Model Y is what we would most likely get if not for this, or if this falls through. That being said, for the level of projects we do, we have really missed a truck these last few months.

Regarding selling, we were forced with the dealer to sign the one year no sale We did get no ADM, so that's a win. We have no plan on selling it, but I hate not being able to have choice with something we buy....

 

[Nate977p]

I think it goes without saying the Lightning is not optimized for long-distance road tripping compared to a Model 3. The Lightning is a brick-shaped pickup truck that can tow (up to) 10,000 pounds.

It makes sense to allow for malfunctioning chargers and charging congestion when trip planning. I think that’s going to be the reality until the non-Supercharger DCFC network improves.

There’s quite a bit of a gap between a local commute and a 400-mile road trip. As you bring the distance down from 400 miles to 300 miles the difference in DCFC experience becomes a bit less important. You’re going to do a fast charge somewhere on the trip but you have a lot more flexibility.

I wouldn't panic.

Keep in mind that the two forum members that have had the most experience with the Lightning (@Silent_Thunder and @oneguynick) are both coming from the Tesla ecosystem. Their complaints with the CCS charging infrastructure are valid, but their issues would have been mitigated with a few minutes of trip planning on ABRP and PlugShare before departure. Familiarity with the CCS charging infrastructure will also give a better sense of which networks, routes and locations are most reliable. It's not going to be a jump-in-and-go- without-planning experience like you have with a Tesla, but taking a few minutes to plan your trip isn't that onerous.

It's also a new vehicle and your comfort with discharging deep into the pack will increase as you become more familiar with it.

I had a lot of anxiety when I started road tripping my I-Pace 2 years ago, but barely any now. I exclusively rely on Electrify America because it's been very reliable for me. I can get anywhere I need to go and I'm in a charger-deficient area of the country.

One thing I will add is that The Northeast (assuming your location is correct) tends to have pretty good coverage from Electrify America. We have taken several trips (everywhere from Pennsylvania to Maine) with our Mach-e and never had to deal with any serious charging issues. We have hit a few specific DC fast chargers that didn't want to work, but the next pedestal over worked fine - never left without a charge.

Once you start looking at the mid-west, things get a bit more dicey.

I think many of your concerns are valid.
Two comments :
1) It’s going to be a while before the CCS DCFC network approaches the Tesla Supercharger network in terms of convenience, and pervasiveness. One mitigating factor may be the overcrowding that is starting to be reported at some Supercharger locations (mostly seems to be a west coast thing).
2) The aerodynamics of a conventional truck shape is going to make the 75 MPH efficiency worse compared to EPA test conditions than a vehicle shaped like a Tesla or a Mach-E. In city driving, I expect the Lightning to have no problem meeting or exceeding EPA numbers.

Another note, the 80% cliff has been improved to the point where it‘s practical to DCFC to 90% if you need to. The last 10% will probably take 12-15 minutes on a 100 kwh battery.

This will be my first BEV coming from my Chevy Volt, but this is exactly what I was thinking. I live in Massachusetts and I've researched the locations of DCFC near me and on routes that I will frequently take the Lightning. There seems to be many in service and many more coming. You can't compare the networks in say New England / West Coast to the middle of the country.

Nate - I agree. I think Ford addresses their big constituent base, the work truck crowd. The construction crews, the roofers, plumbers, you get the drift. They plug in at night and are ready to go in the morning, no wasted time during the workday to gas up. Give the Lightning a few years and it will be like the F150, the everything vehicle for everyman, but version 1.0 sure isn’t.
My normal “long” trip is 227 miles each way and there are 2 EA stations along the way, one is 100 miles from my home and the other is 40 miles from my destination. I’ve checked them both out and I feel no concern for my trip. Now for our winter trip to Florida, we’ll take the Explorer.

Thank you all for the input!

The feedback from those of you with real-world experience is tremendously helpful! I think we have been worrying a bit much about the non-Tesla networks from all the posts about charging issues, slow charging, or stations full. I may be speaking in hyperbole, but we literally finished a last minute trip from NJ to Miami that we had 2 days notice of and it really had us thinking about road trips (we were in a rental box truck).

That being said, I was pulling my numbers of charger failures from the study cited in this The Drive article - https://www.thedrive.com/news/public-ev-charging-still-sucks-but-ford-is-working-to-fix-it

" It looked at all 181 non-Tesla DC fast-charging sites in the San Francisco Bay Area, totaling 657 connectors. Overall, just 72.5 percent of those connectors worked, with this defined as being able to charge an EV for two minutes."​

While a limited study, and just in the Bay Area, this is probably the best case as charging networks would have a high incentive to keep chargers working in a busy EV market. So I took that 27.5%, rounded up to 30%-40% assuming that~10% of the time all chargers are full. As I have no antidotal evidence, I was going off of what I could find. But I have no real world to back this up personally and this study was limited.

I think a big part of this, and after reading all these replies, is to not treat all networks the same. I think the best approach is to treat EA as the Tesla Supercharger network, and all other networks as breakglass backups. From what I have read online, and everything I have read here makes me feel a lot better and that EA is pretty darn reliable! With that perspective, I think we feel a bit more comfortable; EA looks pretty close in coverage to the Tesla network when we got our 3 in 2018.

I think I did get a little nervous on these two reviews, but I wasn't thinking the big difference in charging density based on location of country, and it seems both their issues were moreso around non-EA chargers.

I would agree 225 miles of real driving is a very fair estimate of actual driving - that gives us about 3 hours of driving. 3 hours is on the low end of when we like to stop, but still reasonable.

 

[FordLightningMan]

Removing the Tesla fast charger in Salamanca, NY leaves me with this map of a fast charging abyss. I spend a lot of time in the NY southern tier. There are a few level 2 chargers in the area, but that's only helpful if I am staying the night. Some day...

 

[sotek2345]

Removing the Tesla fast charger in Salamanca, NY leaves me with this map of a fast charging abyss. I spend a lot of time in the NY southern tier. There are a few level 2 chargers in the area, but that's only helpful if I am staying the night. Some day...

Yeah, I-86 looks challenging. I usually travel along I-90 which is well covered, and improving .

 

[Nate977p]

Tesla will open the SuperCharger network when:

- he gets access to part of the billions of dollars in grants
- he can make good money on it

The two may not match up, the government may try to tie his hands on rates before giving him money.

That's the thing - the CCS networks are not expanding very much. EA is currently only growing at a 10% rate which is pretty slow given its small footprint of ~750 stations.. Further, those chargers that do break, stay broken for a while. There is one 350kw EA station on I-81 in SW VA that will be a regular stop for me when I head down there, but it has had issues for several weeks: https://www.plugshare.com/location/146815

Having a station or two offline isn't that big of a deal when you have 8-16 of them to choose from, but when you only have 4, it can be a real issue, especially since there may not be any other options if you roll in with 10% or even 20% SoC. For example, that one station is 67 miles from the nearest 150+kw station. There are a few 50kw stations within 17 miles though.

Northern PA / western NY is another charging desert.

Two years ago I was talking with my in-laws about having an EV. In their town, there were no chargers at all, and there were none on the highways around them. The nearest single charger to them was in Macomb, an hours drive away. Today, when you look at their town in plugshare you see this:

Something everyone needs to remember is that it is still early days. EV's account for only 5.2% of vehicle sales in the US. Sure, to a lot of us who have had EV's for some time, and were early-early adopters, it starts to feel like there are chargers on every corner.

This situation is only going to improve over time - and if it is profitable for businesses, they will get installed even faster.

The SR F150 is way better than the Kia Soul EV we have. At the rate chargers are going up, I am sure it will become capable for road trips in only a few years.

Look at Buc-ee's gas stations. They are massive. It won't be long before there are similar things for EVs as adoption goes up. It makes sense, as EV's have to sit at the chargers longer, meaning more profits for business owners.

The stations are coming faster than you might think.

I have been to some small towns that have no gas stations for quite some distance. I have been in remote areas where I have needed extra jerry cans of diesel.

The upshot around EVs is that in most of these remote locations there is often still power. Installing an EV charger is much easier than building a gas station. Sure, L3 stations are unlikely to be found in small towns - but I anticipate we start to see L2 chargers become common place.

The anticipated date for EV sales parity is 2030. Thats only 8 years away. If 50% of all new car sales are EVs, this means that the need for chargers will increase. I suspect we see L3 chargers on most large/medium highways, and L2 chargers at most small towns/stops. If L3 chargers become profitable for businesses to install, they will appear even faster.

Sure, right now small towns with only 1000 people are difficult to reach with EVs. This will change.

I’ll be taking 1800 mile trips in my Lightning, but it will be planned out with option a b and c, just like when I owned a Model 3. Tesla has issues with chargers being available during weekends/holiday, not a big deal.

I really am conflicted on the Tesla network opening. My opinion is that the Tesla Charger should be the standard, and there should be an effort to get a discounted (or free if Tesla paid) adapters from CCS to Tesla for owners with CCS cars. Much slimer charger, there are already vastly more chargers and cars with them in use, plug & charge has worked for a decade, and a much cleaner experience overall. Of course, I very much doubt this will happen and you would hurt 800v vehicle charging rates.

My conflict comes from being a Tesla owner - while we have not had to wait really at all, we have had many instances of sharing charging speeds on V1/V2 chargers or a charger that only 1 spot is open when we get there. Add all other EVs, with how many are coming to market, then waits will become the norm. And if I am there waiting for a F150L to charge at 150Kw for 45 minutes, vs a 20 minute charge on a Model 3, its going to lead to much longer average charges. When we have the F150L, I will want the network open so we can use it! We shall see where I fall in the future!

On the small town side, that really has not been a problem for us luckily. This has included trips to Maine and Vermont, overall density has been good on Tesla. Regardless, our trips tend to be to decently populated parts of these states. We are lucky in that sense.

 

[Nate977p]

I bought a SR XLT, because I always looked at the Lightning as my local driver. Even if I sprung for an ER, my M3P would be the vehicle I take on road trips due to the charging network, so there was no reason to add the bump in cost. There are places I drive where there is genuinely no public charging network besides Tesla, until rural EV adoption increases, that won't change. These are places infrequently visited, so the only reason to install fast chargers would be to service locals, where I assume current EV adoption rates are < 3%. No rural charger in these communities could ever turn a profit when there are only a few EVs in the whole town.

My hope is that in 3+ years the infrastructure catches up and I could even take my SR anywhere. In the meantime, I'm not going to be as brave as others taking their Lightnings on a road trip. Though I'd love to hear some stories from brave SR owners that try some trips!

The issue isn't the 40,000 people towns like Quincy, there is an economical reason to add charging infrastructure in and near these places. The problem is the 1,000 people towns, like the one I grew up in. I still visit these places regularly to see old friends, many of them are an hour from the nearest interstate, which are dotted with chargers off exits. Add in cold weather in the northeast, you definitely are in a charging desert. I do not see a viable way to use my XLT SR visiting these remote areas and it will be years before that changes, unless I find a nice friend with a level 2 charger.

It's all about use case though, in 95% of instances the SR Lightning will work. Visiting these areas is one of those 5% cases which is problematic. The main reason I bought my Lightning is I like to visit and setup shop at flea markets, I couldn't haul enough in my car to setup a table before. The Lightning saved the day, plus now I can have a grill, refrigerator, TV, etc. with me, it will be fantastic!

I think that is spot on on the SR! That truck is a local commuter with ability to go long if needed, but you are probably looking at 2/3 drive time, 1/3 charge. Doesn't work for us, but man what a value!

I did a build today of an F150L XLT SR vs a F150XLT CrewCab/4x4/2.7 engine and the pricing parity is there, even without a credit!

 

[Nate977p]

With PlugShare one can filter based on user rating of the station and rated power. These are all CCS stations rated 10/10 with a minimum capability of 120 kW.

(Obviously zoom in for detail in your area. This is just an example.)

You’re right! We didn’t plan as this is typically a short trip for us (139 miles each way). We’re definitely going to pay closer attention and do a little of our own routing until we have a couple thousand miles under belt, rather than a couple hundred!

I know you said from non-Tesla owners, but you're excluding a very important data point. While you enjoy your TM3, I purchased a Tesla when the SC network was just being introduced. I dealt with inconsistent superchargers, lack of integrated route planning, limited to 120kw charging, not many SCs in general etc. all on a 218 mi Model S and eventually a 237 mi Model X.

As for your other concerns, I live in a Zone 2 climate, and I have an enclosed V-Nose trailer that I towed with some regularity. I've driven my MX internationally to both the northern and southern borders and we did regular 3 hour - 6 hour round trip day trips.

Given that data, I find it extremely relevant to the F150L and to answer your question? The answer is yes I believe it's ready. Will it be as easy as the TM3? No. But will it be filled with stress? Not really. Download plug share and I'm sure you'll be fine. Perhaps you'll find it to be more of a pain than I do since I've already lived through it.

Exactly and I think this all makes a lot of sense.

I have followed the SC network from Day 1, and I think this is a very good point. I was hoping that the other networks were where the SC was in 2018, and I think it is pretty close, especially if I exclude all others besides EA. And when we got it in 2018, we did have to plan much more than we do today, but probably way less than people did in 2014. So with the perspective of EA as our network, and knowing we need to plan some, I think that changes our mindset. Knowing that helps ease the concern; it is not as bad as the experiences I read about as they were trying to fit the Tesla network mindset into a different world, and from that lens, yes there can be big problems there. So I thank them for making us realize we need to change our mindset prior to getting our F150L!

 

[Nate977p]

PHEW! As we were on the road, and behind on work, hadn't had time to reply, but I think I hit all the main points people put in this thread!

I really appreciate all the time and thoughtful replies! This forum is great, 3 pages and not one post attacking me for being a troll or shorting the stock (oh how I miss what the Tesla forums used to be...).

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