Is the F150 Lightning a local commuter (based on real world data)?

[Nate977p]

Hello All!

We have been excitingly awaiting our Lightning, especially as it has been built for almost a month now!

That being said our excitement is starting to ween and turn to serious concern these last few days. The core question - is the lightning ready for a family that takes moderate road trips often without serious stress (3-6 hour trips, 1-4 times a month). Our Model 3 has vastly improved our road trip experience vs gas cars. Yes we stop every 2.5-3 hours for a few, but we prefer that on these moderate trips. After reading the threads on here and watching reviews, we are very concerned about the Lightning being anything more than a local commuter for us.

For reference, I have been waiting for this truck for 10 years! I leased a 2011 F150 XLT that I couldn't love more; when they announced the Toyota/Ford hybrid drivetrain (remember that?) I was ecstatic as an electric truck was getting closer! I also followed Tesla from the early days as I had a huge interest in EVs! So that culmination has me eagerly awaiting an EV F150 for over a decade! To clarify, I am not a Tesla cult member, I love our Model 3P after almost 90k miles, but Telsa has a ton of areas for improvement.

We shyed away from other EVs as the networks could not match Tesla, but it's been almost 4 years since we got a Tesla, and 4 years ago Superchargers were fantastic, thus others have to be close to that point now? Or that was our thought before we saw these reviews and owner experiences come in... For reference, the longest stint I get on the 3 is about 180-210 miles from 0-100% charge depending on temp. But that gives us a pretty solid 2.5-3 hours of driving with 20ish minute stops.

Here are the concerns:
-Real World Range: Most reviews/owners are seeing 1.6-1.8 m/kwh. My rough math says that's a 210 to 240 mile real world range. At first glance, that is not bad, but we were expecting better. The Mach-E holds very well to EPA, with Car & Drivers' 75 mph real world seeing about 92% of EPA. Using that, we were expecting to see a Summer real world of about 290 miles. For rounding, let's say that 210-240 miles owners are seeing is an average of 225. Now on a trip, 80% of that is usable as charging after 80% is effectively useless due to the charging cliff. So my real world range is about 180 miles. This assumes rolling into a charger at 0%.
-Broken Chargers: The two forum members who have done some trips so far, have experienced waits, broken chargers, slow speeds, or huge detours to get a charger; both stating a 50-100% time increase on relatively short trips, compared to their Tesla Model 3s. It seems chargers have issues or are full 30-40% of the time. Over at least 300 super charger sessions, I do not think I have ever waited more than 5 minutes (and then I think less than 5 times ever), and I have only had a charger not work less than 10 times, probably less than 5.


If we use that 225 mile range estimate, the winter takes off another 20% (in winter my model 3 averages about 68% efficiency factoring in speed and cold). That brings us back to the 180 mile range, but we again need to factor in only 80% usable on a trip, so that brings us to 144 miles. So in the winter, based on what we have seen so far, rounding up, my math says we should see about 180 miles when we set off with 100% battery and about 150 miles after the first charge. This assumes driving to 0%. And 45 minute charge sessions...

As a note on our charging habits - we rely heavily on DC chargers, I am sitting at 56% of charging on SC in the last month, although we do have FUSC so that creates bias.

Thus the core question, are we lying to ourselves? We thought the experience with the lighting would have been at least as good as Tesla 4 years ago, but it seems like the experience is still far from that? And it seems like the range is really going to be a useable 150-180 in winter and 180-220 in summer? It sounds like thoughtless road trips are going to now be riddled with range anxiety and lots of detour...

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback, especially from those with non-Tesla EVs who road trip!

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[Nate977p]

Just to add a comparison.
Let's assume no charging issues and chargers are equally available. 400 mile trip with mix of highway/city/traffic

If the F150L has a real world 225 in the summer at 100% leaving home:
-Drive 180 miles, show up at charger with 45 (I need to leave a buffer as might need to find another charger) 3 hours.
-Charge to 80% (180 miles) .75 hours.
-Drive 135 miles (again leaving 20% for charger issues). 2 hours
-Charge To 50% (110 miles) .4 hours
-Drive 85 miles (done). 1.25 hours
Total: 7.4 hours (realistically up to 10 hours with charging issues)

If the Model 3 has a real world 220 in the Summer;
-Drive 210 miles (I VERY often drive to 0-5% SOC to reach a charger as I never reached a dead station) 3.5 hours
-Charge to 80% (175 miles) .5 hours
-Drive 120 miles 1.75 hours
-Charge for 5 minutes .1 hours
-Drive 70 miles home 1.15 hours
Total: 7 hours reliably


So in this case, Tesla is about 30 minutes faster and there is no risk of hours of stress/detours? I think this is a fair comparison?

It's not so much the perfect situation, it's the anxiety (and reality) of charger issues?

 

[F150ROD]

Just get a Model Y, I don’t think this truck is what you need.

 

[Easycamper]

I think it goes without saying the Lightning is not optimized for long-distance road tripping compared to a Model 3. The Lightning is a brick-shaped pickup truck that can tow (up to) 10,000 pounds.

It makes sense to allow for malfunctioning chargers and charging congestion when trip planning. I think that’s going to be the reality until the non-Supercharger DCFC network improves.

There’s quite a bit of a gap between a local commute and a 400-mile road trip. As you bring the distance down from 400 miles to 300 miles the difference in DCFC experience becomes a bit less important. You’re going to do a fast charge somewhere on the trip but you have a lot more flexibility.

 

[vandy1981]

I wouldn't panic.

Keep in mind that the two forum members that have had the most experience with the Lightning (@Silent_Thunder and @oneguynick) are both coming from the Tesla ecosystem. Their complaints with the CCS charging infrastructure are valid, but their issues would have been mitigated with a few minutes of trip planning on ABRP and PlugShare before departure. Familiarity with the CCS charging infrastructure will also give a better sense of which networks, routes and locations are most reliable. It's not going to be a jump-in-and-go- without-planning experience like you have with a Tesla, but taking a few minutes to plan your trip isn't that onerous.

It's also a new vehicle and your comfort with discharging deep into the pack will increase as you become more familiar with it.

I had a lot of anxiety when I started road tripping my I-Pace 2 years ago, but barely any now. I exclusively rely on Electrify America because it's been very reliable for me. I can get anywhere I need to go and I'm in a charger-deficient area of the country.

 

[sotek2345]

One thing I will add is that The Northeast (assuming your location is correct) tends to have pretty good coverage from Electrify America. We have taken several trips (everywhere from Pennsylvania to Maine) with our Mach-e and never had to deal with any serious charging issues. We have hit a few specific DC fast chargers that didn't want to work, but the next pedestal over worked fine - never left without a charge.

Once you start looking at the mid-west, things get a bit more dicey.

 

[Maquis]

I think many of your concerns are valid.
Two comments :
1) It’s going to be a while before the CCS DCFC network approaches the Tesla Supercharger network in terms of convenience, and pervasiveness. One mitigating factor may be the overcrowding that is starting to be reported at some Supercharger locations (mostly seems to be a west coast thing).
2) The aerodynamics of a conventional truck shape is going to make the 75 MPH efficiency worse compared to EPA test conditions than a vehicle shaped like a Tesla or a Mach-E. In city driving, I expect the Lightning to have no problem meeting or exceeding EPA numbers.

Another note, the 80% cliff has been improved to the point where it‘s practical to DCFC to 90% if you need to. The last 10% will probably take 12-15 minutes on a 100 kwh battery.

 

[Aspesi4]

One thing I will add is that The Northeast (assuming your location is correct) tends to have pretty good coverage from Electrify America. We have taken several trips (everywhere from Pennsylvania to Maine) with our Mach-e and never had to deal with any serious charging issues. We have hit a few specific DC fast chargers that didn't want to work, but the next pedestal over worked fine - never left without a charge.

Once you start looking at the mid-west, things get a bit more dicey.

This will be my first BEV coming from my Chevy Volt, but this is exactly what I was thinking. I live in Massachusetts and I've researched the locations of DCFC near me and on routes that I will frequently take the Lightning. There seems to be many in service and many more coming. You can't compare the networks in say New England / West Coast to the middle of the country.

 

[dirtdiver]

The other good thing for us early adopters is that for some months or even a year it will be easy to sell our trucks without much penalty. The supply is low and the demand is high. Try it- if you don't like it, sell it without much loss.

 

[Tony Burgh]

Nate - I agree. I think Ford addresses their big constituent base, the work truck crowd. The construction crews, the roofers, plumbers, you get the drift. They plug in at night and are ready to go in the morning, no wasted time during the workday to gas up. Give the Lightning a few years and it will be like the F150, the everything vehicle for everyman, but version 1.0 sure isn’t.
My normal “long” trip is 227 miles each way and there are 2 EA stations along the way, one is 100 miles from my home and the other is 40 miles from my destination. I’ve checked them both out and I feel no concern for my trip. Now for our winter trip to Florida, we’ll take the Explorer.

 

[Stlww18]

My ICE F150 was our go-to road trip vehicle, mostly because my wife's Acadia had zero storage space with the third row up. Three kids fit better in the truck.

When I decided to get the Pro (and thus SR battery) I knew it was going to make road trips difficult. We ended up getting a really great trade on her Acadia and put her in a plug-in hybrid Pacifica, which has all the room we need for a family trip.

At least for the next few years, that's going to be the recipe for success for most families or two vehicle households I think; full EV for local travel, PHEV for fuel efficient local travel and the ability to go distance

 

[LightningShow]

I wouldn’t read too much into a couple of early anecdotal experiences. Although, if the CCS network around you is bad then it’s worth considering what that means for road tripping. It’s going to get better rapidly over the next few years but many places have pretty spotty CCS coverage right now. You’ll definitely need to plan more or adjust trips until CCS catches up with SC. Unless Elon opens the SC network, which i wouldn’t hold my breath for.

ETA: while we’re looking at anecdotes, Tom Moloughney said he thought he could get 2.4 mi/kwh from the F150L after he drove it in San Antonio. So, who knows?

 

[LightningShow]

The other good thing for us early adopters is that for some months or even a year it will be easy to sell our trucks without much penalty. The supply is low and the demand is high. Try it- if you don't like it, sell it without much loss.

That’s my take. You get the tax credit and should be able to sell at a good price. It will be a relatively inexpensive way to try it out.

 

[Amps]

Unless Elon opens the SC network, which i wouldn’t hold my breath for.

He'll open it up. It will happen on Elon Time™. Definitely don't hold your breath.

 

[RickLightning]

Hello All!

We have been excitingly awaiting our Lightning, especially as it has been built for almost a month now!

That being said our excitement is starting to ween and turn to serious concern these last few days. The core question - is the lightning ready for a family that takes moderate road trips often without serious stress (3-6 hour trips, 1-4 times a month). Our Model 3 has vastly improved our road trip experience vs gas cars. Yes we stop every 2.5-3 hours for a few, but we prefer that on these moderate trips. After reading the threads on here and watching reviews, we are very concerned about the Lightning being anything more than a local commuter for us.

For reference, I have been waiting for this truck for 10 years! I leased a 2011 F150 XLT that I couldn't love more; when they announced the Toyota/Ford hybrid drivetrain (remember that?) I was ecstatic as an electric truck was getting closer! I also followed Tesla from the early days as I had a huge interest in EVs! So that culmination has me eagerly awaiting an EV F150 for over a decade! To clarify, I am not a Tesla cult member, I love our Model 3P after almost 90k miles, but Telsa has a ton of areas for improvement.

We shyed away from other EVs as the networks could not match Tesla, but it's been almost 4 years since we got a Tesla, and 4 years ago Superchargers were fantastic, thus others have to be close to that point now? Or that was our thought before we saw these reviews and owner experiences come in... For reference, the longest stint I get on the 3 is about 180-210 miles from 0-100% charge depending on temp. But that gives us a pretty solid 2.5-3 hours of driving with 20ish minute stops.

Here are the concerns:
-Real World Range: Most reviews/owners are seeing 1.6-1.8 m/kwh. My rough math says that's a 210 to 240 mile real world range. At first glance, that is not bad, but we were expecting better. The Mach-E holds very well to EPA, with Car & Drivers' 75 mph real world seeing about 92% of EPA. Using that, we were expecting to see a Summer real world of about 290 miles. For rounding, let's say that 210-240 miles owners are seeing is an average of 225. Now on a trip, 80% of that is usable as charging after 80% is effectively useless due to the charging cliff. So my real world range is about 180 miles. This assumes rolling into a charger at 0%.
-Broken Chargers: The two forum members who have done some trips so far, have experienced waits, broken chargers, slow speeds, or huge detours to get a charger; both stating a 50-100% time increase on relatively short trips, compared to their Tesla Model 3s. It seems chargers have issues or are full 30-40% of the time. Over at least 300 super charger sessions, I do not think I have ever waited more than 5 minutes (and then I think less than 5 times ever), and I have only had a charger not work less than 10 times, probably less than 5.


If we use that 225 mile range estimate, the winter takes off another 20% (in winter my model 3 averages about 68% efficiency factoring in speed and cold). That brings us back to the 180 mile range, but we again need to factor in only 80% usable on a trip, so that brings us to 144 miles. So in the winter, based on what we have seen so far, rounding up, my math says we should see about 180 miles when we set off with 100% battery and about 150 miles after the first charge. This assumes driving to 0%. And 45 minute charge sessions...

As a note on our charging habits - we rely heavily on DC chargers, I am sitting at 56% of charging on SC in the last month, although we do have FUSC so that creates bias.

Thus the core question, are we lying to ourselves? We thought the experience with the lighting would have been at least as good as Tesla 4 years ago, but it seems like the experience is still far from that? And it seems like the range is really going to be a useable 150-180 in winter and 180-220 in summer? It sounds like thoughtless road trips are going to now be riddled with range anxiety and lots of detour...

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback, especially from those with non-Tesla EVs who road trip!

Much hyperbole here. Two people commented, and you're jumping to the conclusion that chargers have issues or are full 30 to 40% of the time?

I have done over 10,000 miles in the Mach-E. Yes, we've had some EA individual chargers down. Even 50% of one location. However, we have NEVER had a location full when we arrived (or left), nor totally unavailable. In fact, the most vehicles, including hours, that we've EVER had charging across nearly a dozen states is 3 (i.e. 2 others) Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, O_io, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, New York.

Many are inexperienced. They trust the Ford navigation, and let it tell them to do illogical things. If you plan your route out, you won't drive X miles in the wrong direction.

As to the effective range, driving with the Mach-E we can go over 200 miles when we leave with a 100% charge. But if we leave a charger with 80%, and go to 10%, that's 0.7 x 91kWh x 2.7m/kWh = 170 mile range. Nobody is doing a roadtrip driving 225 miles unless it's on that first leg.

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