Is the F150 Lightning a local commuter (based on real world data)?

[RickLightning]

Removing the Tesla fast charger in Salamanca, NY leaves me with this map of a fast charging abyss. I spend a lot of time in the NY southern tier. There are a few level 2 chargers in the area, but that's only helpful if I am staying the night. Some day...

Wonder why the chargers in Jamestown, NY aren't showing. ChargePoint 125kW...

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[FlasherZ]

Also puzzled by your multiple posts on the CCS adapter. Been using it for years now and never had major issues. Disaster? Count me baffled. My wife who is 92 lbs uses it just fine. The bigger problem with CCS is the liquid cooled cables which can be heavy. The bigger handle definitely helps with this. Some of the new units have a carry hoop and recent units have begun to work on these cable sizes, suspending them etc.

Keep in mind the CCS is designed for upgrades up to 500 kw once vehicles batteries can handle it. There are good reasons the DC pins are separated the way they are.

I think if you like the TSLA just stay with TSLA and not comment on a Ford forum FUD stuff that just muddies the waters.

I'm merely using Tesla as a comparison after 10 years and 350,000 miles of EV driving, which is a good amount of experience. I'm getting a Lightning to replace my Model S, so that should help you understand I'm in no way in the tank for Elon (although we are keeping the Model X).

If the SAE were to take the Tesla connector and upsize the pins & insulation so that it supported 500 kW, that's fine too - I'm not married to the specific connector Tesla chose to use, but I am pointing out the features that make the connector easier to use, and that is why Tesla didn't use the J1772 connector.

Sorry if you happen to love the CCS connector. I think it's an abomination of a "make it look like a gas pump" design culture, and I'm a fan of more elegant design. Your 92 pound wife might not have a problem, but there are going to be plenty of people who don't have the motor skills of you or your wife who would benefit from a better connector design. Older drivers, arthritic drivers, those with poor muscle development, etc. The nice thing about the Tesla connector is that all you have to do is attempt to plug it in with the connector oriented within 20-30 degrees or so and it self-centers when connecting. The CCS connector does not have any chamfered edges and must be plugged in precisely to avoid breaking it. The large size of the connector means it can be tilted or rotated wrong, and that lends itself to clipping or breaking of the outer guide surfaces (which is why I've seen at least 20 stations with damaged J1772 connectors over the years). It's just the reality of the situation - some people may be perfect, but that doesn't mean the design is perfect for everyone who will use it.

And definitely not FUD - it's experience. I've used Tesla, ChaDeMo, Mennekes, J1772, and CCS connectors for nearly a decade and believe I have a good sense for what works well and what does not. I respect your opinion and disagree. My best to you.

 

[FordLightningMan]

Wonder why the chargers in Jamestown, NY aren't showing. ChargePoint 125kW...

I generically set my search for 70kW+ charging stations, since I always hear people talk about how now the slower Tesla Chargers are 150kW, with the faster ones as 250kW. I didn't realize that Level 3 fast chargers actually start at 50kW, that is my mistake based on my historic Tesla network reliance. Jamestown does have a few Chargepoint that didn't show up in my filter, which are 50kW - 62.5kW chargers. How long would it take to charge a SR Lightning battery in full at one of these chargers? If it's the same 40ish minutes time frame to get from 10%-90%, then I take back my original post!

 

[VTbuckeye]

I generically set my search for 70kW+ charging stations, since I always hear people talk about how now the slower Tesla Chargers are 150kW, with the faster ones as 250kW. I didn't realize that Level 3 fast chargers actually start at 50kW, that is my mistake based on my historic Tesla network reliance. Jamestown does have a few Chargepoint that didn't show up in my filter, which are 50kW - 62.5kW chargers. How long would it take to charge a SR Lightning battery in full at one of these chargers? If it's the same 40ish minutes time frame to get from 10%-90%, then I take back my original post!

Charging at 50kw from 10 to 90 would take about 95 minutes. 80kw/50 kw/hr =1.6hr. it is like being in the tapered down charge rate for the whole time charging.

 

[EVTruckGuy]

I'm just going to say it. If your primary use is taking road trips 3-6 hours in duration up to 4 times per month, there are better options for you.

This truck doesn't make sense for someone planning to put on a ton of interstate miles.

My wife has a PHEV vehicle we use for road tripping since it's more convenient than using an EV for this specific use. Our Lightning will be for nearly everything else.

I will also keep my old ICE F150 for the occasional need to tow something for more than 100 miles.

I do occasionally road trip in the Mach E, and it does pretty well. But I still wouldn't want to do it 4 times a mont. Stopping to DC fast charge 4 times a month would get old real quick.

 

[LightningShow]

I wouldn't want to roadtrip 4 times a month no matter what vehicle I had.

OK, maybe if I could be chauffeured in a Rolls Royce...

 

[Theo1000]

WRT 50 kw CCS chargers folks need to aware that there are a lot of first generation plain old CCS chargers out there. The current generation equipment is CCS-1.

The Mach-E in particular could not charge on the first generation equipment and I'm very certain the F-150 Lightning will not be able to charge on first gen stuff. There are long threads in the Mach-E forums with folks who tried to get Ford to do a software update and final answer was no it can not be done.

There are several old units in my town and some one will have to take one for the team and confirm that the lightning will not work on most of the older 50kw equipment.

 

[RickLightning]

I generically set my search for 70kW+ charging stations, since I always hear people talk about how now the slower Tesla Chargers are 150kW, with the faster ones as 250kW. I didn't realize that Level 3 fast chargers actually start at 50kW, that is my mistake based on my historic Tesla network reliance. Jamestown does have a few Chargepoint that didn't show up in my filter, which are 50kW - 62.5kW chargers. How long would it take to charge a SR Lightning battery in full at one of these chargers? If it's the same 40ish minutes time frame to get from 10%-90%, then I take back my original post!

Interesting how Plugshare shows 2 of the 3 locations as 125kw if not shared.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/373077

https://www.plugshare.com/location/379440

 

[FordLightningMan]

Interesting how Plugshare shows 2 of the 3 locations as 125kw if not shared.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/373077

https://www.plugshare.com/location/379440

This is actually interesting, that means that where there is load sharing, the split load is the default display. This makes my Google results make sense, 125kw / 2 is the number they are showing.

I guess that is the best way to report the info, because you have to assume someone may be charging next to you, then you can plan accordingly. Just another new thing to consider, as I move over from the Tesla supercharger network and into the wild west.

 

[Maquis]

It looks like that's an entire EVSE that plugs into a 10-30, not just an adapter.

Also, @GrokTime, some dryers use a 14-30R so you may not be guaranteed to plug that into a "dryer receptacle" in all cases. Best to double check

That’ll teach me to comment without actually looking at the link!

 

[RickLightning]

This is actually interesting, that means that where there is load sharing, the split load is the default display. This makes my Google results make sense, 125kw / 2 is the number they are showing.

I guess that is the best way to report the info, because you have to assume someone may be charging next to you, then you can plan accordingly. Just another new thing to consider, as I move over from the Tesla supercharger network and into the wild west.

I have only used EA high speed chargers, no experience with the ChargePoints.

 

[kensiko]

But does it pull 32 amps. It think it is closer to 30 amps. I have used it without a problem for a while now at a trailer park for the MachE. Will have to see what the Lighting EVSE pulls.

In any case there are 30 amp EVSE for ~$200 if that is an issue. I usually buy cheapo EVSE that I don't care if it lives in the unprotected frunk.

Quick question does the lightning allows ajustment of the amps like in Teslas?

 

[sotek2345]

Quick question does the lightning allows ajustment of the amps like in Teslas?

No, unless Ford changed something last minute.

 

[Nate977p]

I haven't found anything as flexible as the Tesla UMC. If you already have one, just keep it and buy a J1772 adapter like the Lectron or TeslaTap. That is my plan. You can also use the adapter on Tesla destination chargers that are not locked to Tesla vehicles.

The Tesla connector is just... elegant. It's self-centering because of the shape and rounded charge port, and simple to connect. It is a great study in mechanical and industrial design for usability, and really helps those with fine motor skills problems. My 6-year-old (at the time) could plug in my Tesla without a problem. I can't confidently say that he'd be able to plug in a CCS connector without trouble.

The issue? It didn't look like a gas pump nozzle. And for some reason, that bugged a lot of automotive engineers (because if all you have is a hammer...) That's why ChaDeMo adapters look like gas pump nozzles, lever and all... that's why most early J1772 connectors look like nozzles as well.

J1772 and CCS were a design-by-committee disaster. The number of times I've found broken J1772 connectors because the users had difficulty with orientation, or twisted the connector and broke off the key, can't be counted on my fingers and toes. The CCS combo connector just compounds the issues because it does nothing to assist in connector orientation.

In order of preference, I'd rather have Tesla's US design, followed by the EU Mennekes connector, followed by the CCS disaster.

Yes. Tesla addresses this by using individual adapter cables that are rated for the receptacles they're plugging into. They tell the Tesla mobile connector to advertise a maximum current to the truck. Plug in a NEMA 14-30 adapter, it'll advertise 24A charging rate. Plug in a NEMA 5-20 adapter, it'll advertise 16A. Plug in a NEMA 6-15, it'll advertise 12A. Then the car will only draw that much current.

I think it's a non-starter for Ford not to include ability to turn charging current down. For example, there will be times your only option may be charging on the same circuit with appliances. One time I was staying at our timeshare in Florida and shared a 120V circuit with their golf cart charger. If I set the car to anything above 9A, it would pop the breaker within 15 minutes or so.

You don't want to rely upon having to turn the charge current down - which is why they build the capability into the mobile EVSE itself to restrict current to the receptacle you're attaching... but it helps in a pinch or if you're using a strange adapter. You are likely to see a variety of EVSE equipment that will help with this in the future.

I assumed ford's mobile charger had the same design. Tesla is definitely ahead of the game on so many levels when it comes to ease of use.

IME when you charge on the 110v you end up with the EVSE or larger parts lying outside the vehicle often in poor security area. Hence the cheapo 110v that you do mind getting stolen, trashed, Had the misfortune of an ICE driving over mine, etc.

Personally I won't risk my Ford EVSE for 110v charging situations.

There already are tons of EVSE's with this feature of adjusting amps. Probably why most EV manufacturers don't bother supporting such marginal cases.

Also puzzled by your multiple posts on the CCS adapter. Been using it for years now and never had major issues. Disaster? Count me baffled. My wife who is 92 lbs uses it just fine. The bigger problem with CCS is the liquid cooled cables which can be heavy. The bigger handle definitely helps with this. Some of the new units have a carry hoop and recent units have begun to work on these cable sizes, suspending them etc.

Keep in mind the CCS is designed for upgrades up to 500 kw once vehicles batteries can handle it. There are good reasons the DC pins are separated the way they are.

I think if you like the TSLA just stay with TSLA and not comment on a Ford forum FUD stuff that just muddies the waters.

I'm merely using Tesla as a comparison after 10 years and 350,000 miles of EV driving, which is a good amount of experience. I'm getting a Lightning to replace my Model S, so that should help you understand I'm in no way in the tank for Elon (although we are keeping the Model X).

If the SAE were to take the Tesla connector and upsize the pins & insulation so that it supported 500 kW, that's fine too - I'm not married to the specific connector Tesla chose to use, but I am pointing out the features that make the connector easier to use, and that is why Tesla didn't use the J1772 connector.

Sorry if you happen to love the CCS connector. I think it's an abomination of a "make it look like a gas pump" design culture, and I'm a fan of more elegant design. Your 92 pound wife might not have a problem, but there are going to be plenty of people who don't have the motor skills of you or your wife who would benefit from a better connector design. Older drivers, arthritic drivers, those with poor muscle development, etc. The nice thing about the Tesla connector is that all you have to do is attempt to plug it in with the connector oriented within 20-30 degrees or so and it self-centers when connecting. The CCS connector does not have any chamfered edges and must be plugged in precisely to avoid breaking it. The large size of the connector means it can be tilted or rotated wrong, and that lends itself to clipping or breaking of the outer guide surfaces (which is why I've seen at least 20 stations with damaged J1772 connectors over the years). It's just the reality of the situation - some people may be perfect, but that doesn't mean the design is perfect for everyone who will use it.

And definitely not FUD - it's experience. I've used Tesla, ChaDeMo, Mennekes, J1772, and CCS connectors for nearly a decade and believe I have a good sense for what works well and what does not. I respect your opinion and disagree. My best to you.

I started driving Tesla in 2012, before the Superchargers even existed. When the SC's did start rolling out, they were few and far between except in California. If a station was down, Tesla paid to tow your car to the next station if you had to.



Our first road trip to Florida required that we drive slower than usual to Indianapolis, then head south from there, a handful of hours out of the way. We've ended up at the closed Tesla store with no services for a mile or so in the middle of the night in Nashville to charge after that station was built.



Here we are, 10 years later after buying our first EV, and I feel comfortable just jumping in and driving anywhere I need to go without planning - and that's a single company's contribution. Imagine what we will see once more and more EV's start arriving.



I still tell people that if you're a "pump-pee-and-go" type tripper, it's not for you, yet. But it's getting close. For someone like me who stays local 95% of the time and takes the occasional road trip, it has been a great experience and I don't own an ICE vehicle that can carry my entire family.



I am floored with the number of Tesla cars I see even in my very rural part of the US. Just yesterday, on a rural state highway, I saw 3 Model Y's, 2 Model S's, 2 Model X's, and 1 Model S just over the course of a day - 45 miles east of St. Louis.



As for infrastructure, my local electric co-op has met with me a number of times to ask me about charging behaviors and whether they should consider investing in some charging infrastructure on the relatively small chunk of interstate in their territory.



It will get there - there may be some growing pains.

Maybe I will buy another Tesla UMC with the adapters then.... Many things I took for granted with it (easy change heads, never over drawing an outlet). I never thought about the fact that the adapter could lead to over-drawing without tripping a circuit!

I used to carry my UMC all the time, but for the last year and a half, it has been my home charger - extension cord to it and plugged into car. It has done amazingly well for being outside in rain and snow! I am not going to discount benefit of 110v charging

Tesla's are everywhere in greater Boston. When I get bored I play a game where I count how many seconds it is till I see a Tesla in the other lane. It used to be 45-75 seconds years back, now it's usually 10-20 seconds on many highways.

I never have used a CCS but these complaints seem very valid. When Tesla added liquid cooling, the cables got smaller. In the cold, V2 cables can be though to move around. I will see how CCS is once I start using, but the Tesla connector is very simple and elegant. Not trying to spread FUD, but I am not informed enough on CCS to be firm in my opinion.

WRT 50 kw CCS chargers folks need to aware that there are a lot of first generation plain old CCS chargers out there. The current generation equipment is CCS-1.



The Mach-E in particular could not charge on the first generation equipment and I'm very certain the F-150 Lightning will not be able to charge on first gen stuff. There are long threads in the Mach-E forums with folks who tried to get Ford to do a software update and final answer was no it can not be done.



There are several old units in my town and some one will have to take one for the team and confirm that the lightning will not work on most of the older 50kw equipment.

Wait there are 3 CCS standards? CCS, CCS-1, CCS Type 2? I know US is CCS-1, but I didn't know there was an earlier standard. How do you tell to avoid?

I'm just going to say it. If your primary use is taking road trips 3-6 hours in duration up to 4 times per month, there are better options for you.

This truck doesn't make sense for someone planning to put on a ton of interstate miles.

My wife has a PHEV vehicle we use for road tripping since it's more convenient than using an EV for this specific use. Our Lightning will be for nearly everything else.

I will also keep my old ICE F150 for the occasional need to tow something for more than 100 miles.

I do occasionally road trip in the Mach E, and it does pretty well. But I still wouldn't want to do it 4 times a mont. Stopping to DC fast charge 4 times a month would get old real quick.

I wouldn't want to roadtrip 4 times a month no matter what vehicle I had.

OK, maybe if I could be chauffeured in a Rolls Royce...

I am very well versed in these drives with the 3; we actually had a Gladiator and much preferred the 3 for road trips. The gas car stayed home any time we had to go far ironically enough We prefer to stop every 3-4 hours on a trip regardless so charging is such a non-issue. Antidotally, the car is probably ready to go before us 80% of the time.

I should also clarify these trips. About 1/2 of them are trips to VT that are about 250 miles RT + a need for local short trips when there OR trips from Boston to NJ for her work.

The other 1/2 are days I have client meetings. Typically, I start out and drive to the office, do meetings, and head home. A great example was last week. Office is about 40 miles there, a 20 mile local trip. Then had to drive about 80 miles to a client, then 100 miles home. So about 240 miles that day, and that is a common trip. Some days it's 200, sometimes 350. That's why I really hope I can get 280 real mile range. Makes most of those days stop free.

Thanks all!

 

[Traconesu]

Just to add a comparison.
Let's assume no charging issues and chargers are equally available. 400 mile trip with mix of highway/city/traffic

If the F150L has a real world 225 in the summer at 100% leaving home:
-Drive 180 miles, show up at charger with 45 (I need to leave a buffer as might need to find another charger) 3 hours.
-Charge to 80% (180 miles) .75 hours.
-Drive 135 miles (again leaving 20% for charger issues). 2 hours
-Charge To 50% (110 miles) .4 hours
-Drive 85 miles (done). 1.25 hours
Total: 7.4 hours (realistically up to 10 hours with charging issues)

If the Model 3 has a real world 220 in the Summer;
-Drive 210 miles (I VERY often drive to 0-5% SOC to reach a charger as I never reached a dead station) 3.5 hours
-Charge to 80% (175 miles) .5 hours
-Drive 120 miles 1.75 hours
-Charge for 5 minutes .1 hours
-Drive 70 miles home 1.15 hours
Total: 7 hours reliably


So in this case, Tesla is about 30 minutes faster and there is no risk of hours of stress/detours? I think this is a fair comparison?

It's not so much the perfect situation, it's the anxiety (and reality) of charger issues?

It's not the lightnings fault, but I wouldn't have purchased my lightning platinum if I was going to use it on road trips. Probably the main reason I say this is you may pay as much as $.44/kwh or more. You'll probably be driving mainly on interstate roads at 70+/mph so let's say yo average 2/mpk, that's $.22/mile or $22 to drive 100 miles. If gas was $3/gal then you would be getting 13.6 mpg. $4/gal you'd be getting 18.2 mpg. At $5/gal you'd be getting a whopping 22.7 mpg.

And of course the other issue is to find a working dastardly charger that's not busy.

Not to mention whenever lithium batteries are fast charged their life expectancy is reduced.

I bought and use mine for local use only. No worries about public chargers and only pay $.12/kwh in summer & $.08/kwh in winter. I average $.06/mile or $6 to drive 100 miles. I wouldn't recommend the lightning for long distance traveling and long distance towing for the above reasons.

If you plan on towing a travel trailer you could expect to cut your range by as much as half.

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