Lightning vs Silverado EV after the latest ford price increases/feature deletes?

[greenne]

The Volt was actually pretty good. Gen 1 was rated at 39 miles EV, then a little over 40mpg. 40mpg is not great compared to a Prius, but we didn't need to use the ice often. At highway speed it would actually link the engine to the wheels for a little bit more efficient travel. The big gripe about the car was how loud the engine was and it was not at all tied to vehicle speed. I believe the second generation was quieter, more efficient and had a slightly larger engine. Volt gen 1 also had poor headlights and massive A pillars. I liked the drivetrain overall and eventually replaced it with a Bolt. We developed gas anxiety (what do we need to do to not have the gas engine turn on). I liked having the ice for long drives, but with a 15 mile round trip commute even when below zero I had plenty of EV range. At 14F the engine would turn on for a minute or two, then every few minutes it would turn on again. Never actually warmed up, to oil looked like a chocolate milkshake (probably fuel dilution, but definitely condensation from cold start after cold start). If they made the drive train with 50 percent more power it would have been great in an equinox/terrain.

A range extender for an EV truck, if small, would need to run selectively from a relatively high state of charge so that the battery level could be maintained for as long as possible. It would probably vibrate a bunch, be loud and not very efficient. A true phev version of the truck with a decent size engine (could be NA 4 cylinder) could probably work if there is a large enough battery buffer at the bottom. It would take away from the frunk utility... probably great for towing, but the everyday shorter range utility would be reduced.

I liked the Volt tbh (test drove one)..but the whole economy car sales pitch didn't work *if* you used the car for road trips.(Hybrids like the Prius got better fuel economy). If you never needed if for longer trips, then it was silly to haul around a gas engine just to sit there.

So it tried to do two different things and didn't do either as efficient as alternatives...

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[VTbuckeye]

I liked the Volt tbh (test drove one)..but the whole economy car sales pitch didn't work *if* you used the car for road trips.(Hybrids like the Prius got better fuel economy). If you never needed if for longer trips, then it was silly to haul around a gas engine just to sit there.

So it tried to do two different things and didn't do either as efficient as alternatives...

Fair enough. It was a good "gateway drug" to EV ownership.

 

[cvalue13]

A range extender for an EV truck, if small, would need to run selectively from a relatively high state of charge so that the battery level could be maintained for as long as possible. It would probably vibrate a bunch, be loud and not very efficient.

we’ll see what Ram is hinting at. And no doubt ideas can be executed poorly or well.

daydreaming over this, I think it could come down to exactly how it is featured in the trim lineups, and the marketing message behind it. Consider just two alternatives:

(A) “the new Ram top trim: 500mi range (using a hard-installed gas range extender to supplement the battery that only gets 400 miles)

vs

(B) “the new Ram top trim: 400mi range (and for those Super-Macho men with massive … trailers (*wink*)…, or requiring emergency range extension, an optional gas-powered range extending tool box, taking maximum range up to 500, towing 50% more than the competition, or adding an emergency 50 miles range for those unexpected life’s events)

I dunno, to me just goes feels this sort of feature for the crowd converting to EV trucks is all in the packaging

 

[VTbuckeye]

we’ll see what Ram is hinting at. And no doubt ideas can be executed poorly or well.

daydreaming over this, I think it could come down to exactly how it is featured in the trim lineups, and the marketing message behind it. Consider just two alternatives:

(A) “the new Ram top trim: 500mi range (using a hard-installed gas range extender to supplement the battery that only gets 400 miles)

vs

(B) “the new Ram top trim: 400mi range (and for those Super-Macho men with massive … trailers (*wink*)…, or requiring emergency range extension, an optional gas-powered range extending tool box, taking maximum range up to 500, towing 50% more than the competition, or adding an emergency 50 miles range for those unexpected life’s events)

I dunno, to me just goes feels this sort of feature for the crowd converting to EV trucks is all in the packaging

Pull through charging. 800+V architecture for battery systems. 350+kW charging. 300kWh+ batteries. 2000pounds payload. Charging stations at every exit that always work. = Tow what you want. Tow for 300+ miles. Recharge in 30 minutes or less (actually with a 300kwh battery charging would need to be at 700kw with a small taper). All for the low low price of 39,999 (before tax credits).

 

[Roy2001]

This would be great news if they build the base WT during the first half of 2023 but then @Roy2001 is saying GM will build the more expensive platforms first ?

According to the website, it says:
"WT estimated MSRP starts at $39,900 + DFC* with optional features and content, including up to 20,000 lbs. towing capability*. Future variations will offer a range of MSRPs, from around $50,000 to $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 and more, depending on selected battery range and available features such as Multi-Flex Midgate® with pass-through, panoramic fixed-glass roof, 4-Wheel Steer and Wide Open Watts Mode - providing a wide variety of capability and pricing."

Guess I'll let you all know when I get invited for the GM EV WT in 2023 - which trim will be first to build...

I also have a pre-order

Pull through charging. 800+V architecture for battery systems. 350+kW charging. 300kWh+ batteries. 2000pounds payload. Charging stations at every exit that always work. = Tow what you want. Tow for 300+ miles. Recharge in 30 minutes or less (actually with a 300kwh battery charging would need to be at 700kw with a small taper). All for the low low price of 39,999 (before tax credits).

You are asking too much for too little.

300kWh is pipe dream and it will never be implemented.

 

[VTbuckeye]

I also have a pre-order

You are asking too much for too little.

300kWh is pipe dream and it will never be implemented.

It was intended to be a pipe dream. Realistic my way be 150kwh, 800V, pull through charging and maybe copious charging options (may take a while). Honestly the Silverado EV checks most of those boxes, though payload may be a problem.

 

[metroshot]

It was intended to be a pipe dream. Realistic my way be 150kwh, 800V, pull through charging and maybe copious charging options (may take a while). Honestly the Silverado EV checks most of those boxes, though payload may be a problem.

Yes, charging will be better (300kWh) than Ford but remember, the 400 mile range is an option like the ER battery option.

Be prepared to pay a lot more for the 400 mile range.

Never will be possible to get a 400 mile range for a $40K price point.

It's like the $100K Hummer EV that you have to cough up a lot of dough to get the near 400 mile range.

 

[Roy2001]

Yes, charging will be better (300kWh) than Ford but remember, the 400 mile range is an option like the ER battery option.

Be prepared to pay a lot more for the 400 mile range.

Never will be possible to get a 400 mile range for a $40K price point.

It's like the $100K Hummer EV that you have to cough up a lot of dough to get the near 400 mile range.

Hummer has 200kWh battery. I think 160kWh on F150/Silverado for $80k with 400 miles range is possible. It will take a while though.

 

[uthorns1976]

Didn't Tesla 86 the Cybertruck???

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Every EV maker will need to scale prices like Ford has due to the price of batteries and parts. Chevy won't magically be under $40k anymore.

For a 400 mile range, the amount of batteries they'll need to put in it will raise the cost higher than the Lightning.

 

[Regular150]

Lion battery price jumped from $140/kWh to $200/kWh. That means battery cost for SR jumped by $6000, and jumped $8000 for ER. That does not count inflation of other parts/chips and labor cost increase.

Ford has no choice. As I mentioned, Tesla price increased close to 35% since last summer across all models and their gross margin is actually lower now.

So I do expect Silverado EV and Cybertruck price jump, a lot.

These are facts. I'm afraid we're trading Energy independence with Oil and in exchange will be fighting Anwar over precious metals.
Makes no difference if I'm carbon neutral and have little Energy security.

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