I'm Curious, How Many People Are Considering Not Taking Delivery?

[RVTim]

It’s actually two simple clicks on the screen for each transaction and it was done, to include an email confirmation that I received.

Where an the screen are you talking about? Is it when I follow my email link and am logged in looking at my order? Just want to see if I can find it using a full size browser.

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[carrillj]

Where an the screen are you talking about? Is it when I follow my email link and am logged in looking at my order? Just want to see if I can find it using a full size browser.

What I meant is the dealer controls the refund. You can’t do it. Its on their program that only they control. Not even Ford Corp can refund you. It’s up to the dealer. That’s why I question if they will give your money back to you since it’s easy to do on their end.

 

[RVTim]

Ahh, thanks for that. I guess I'll see what happens over the next week. Of course, they seemed nice enough and even very understanding when I went in today. It sounds like they have seen a lot of this with the F-150 lately. In fact, they took a lariat in trade, and put it on the lot for 99.999 and I went and test drove it a month or more ago, and it was still there today, unsold. So they know the market for these trucks isn't what it used to be 3-6 months ago.

 

[Fordskeptic]

So far I'm not concerned. I guess that will change if they give me a hassle. The dealer assured me that my deposit was 100% refundable, even up until the delivery and purchase of the truck, so they shouldn't have any reason to refuse it.

I would not trust a dealer's word....but that's just me. The dealer is supposed to provide paperwork to Ford that you canceled the order as part of Ford trying to keep dealers on the straight and narrow. Just the fact that the dealer isn't asking you sign paperwork indicating that you do not want to take delivery would be a red flag to me.

 

[carrillj]

Ahh, thanks for that. I guess I'll see what happens over the next week. Of course, they seemed nice enough and even very understanding when I went in today. It sounds like they have seen a lot of this with the F-150 lately. In fact, they took a lariat in trade, and put it on the lot for 99.999 and I went and test drove it a month or more ago, and it was still there today, unsold. So they know the market for these trucks isn't what it used to be 3-6 months ago.

I received my refund confirmation by email while sitting in the dealers office . He literally checked a box on his screen and voila my refund was processed in an instant.

 

[RVTim]

Cool. I'll have to maybe drive back there and help explain the process to them.

 

[RickKeen]

I needed a new truck. For around town winter commute, household projects, occasional parts runs for a small side business, and local towing of my boats seasonally in and out of the lake (local).
F150 Lightning is perfect for my needs.
The quality of the frame, wheels, brakes, cab, seats, bed, dash, bed, tailgate, hitch, etc is on par with any ICE pickup from Ford, Chevy, or RAM. The electric motor and battery setup so far seems perfectly capable. No complaints whatsoever on the basic functionality.
The software is functional. Only a few actual defects that I have noticed so far. Some other awkward stuff and style things that are not my favorites, but nothing to the point it doesn't work.

The disappointing thing is that the software could enable so many more features and be so much better than it is. That is where comparison to Tesla comes in. And a lot of the gaps are not even related to the vehicle being an EV vs ICE or BHEV. Just things that leverage the on-board compute, networking, cameras, and integration with the vehicle systems that could make owning and maintaining and using the vehicle so much more useful.

Vehicle makers who realize that good software in vehicles and the network and cloud they connect to are going to have a more competitive offering.

Step #1 - take feedback on the software. Put a button on the dash and on the app and on the website where people can suggest changes, request features, critique bad designs, report defects., and make the case to prioritize what they want.

Step #2 - Staff up the software team to actually be responsive to all that input you would get. Be prepared to be amazed at the customer loyalty you will generate when you grant the wish of some large category of customers.

 

[RickLightning]

Disappointing that Ford cannot yet figure out how buyers next year can still get the truck they want and qualify for the tax credit.

Should Ford rewrite the tax code? Or lower the price and impact corporate profits?

 

[Jhalkias]

Should Ford rewrite the tax code? Or lower the price and impact corporate profits?

Ford can't rewrite the code - although final regulations from the IRS are not yet out (as far as I know) - and I don't know if there is any room in interpretation of what constitutes the vehicle price. But I am doubtful on that front.

Insofar as corporate profits, Ford will have to see if they sell less trucks without the tax incentive being in play. For the time being, I am guessing no - as they are selling them as fast as they can make them - but I still think demand will begin to fall between the price increase and loss of credit.

 

[RickLightning]

Ford can't rewrite the code - although final regulations from the IRS are not yet out (as far as I know) - and I don't know if there is any room in interpretation of what constitutes the vehicle price. But I am doubtful on that front.

Insofar as corporate profits, Ford will have to see if they sell less trucks without the tax incentive being in play. For the time being, I am guessing no - as they are selling them as fast as they can make them - but I still think demand will begin to fall between the price increase and loss of credit.

How many trucks they sell is only part of the equation. How much PROFIT DOLLARS they get is the bigger part of the equation.

They may sell less trucks at a higher pricepoint, but make oodles more profit. Years ago car makers loaded up rental car agencies with vehicles, at huge discounts, to push out more volume. Now, many of those plants closed years ago, and they're working off lower volumes. Witness Stellantis closing the Illinois Jeep plant.

 

[Jhalkias]

How many trucks they sell is only part of the equation. How much PROFIT DOLLARS they get is the bigger part of the equation.

They may sell less trucks at a higher pricepoint, but make oodles more profit. Years ago car makers loaded up rental car agencies with vehicles, at huge discounts, to push out more volume. Now, many of those plants closed years ago, and they're working off lower volumes. Witness Stellantis closing the Illinois Jeep plant.

Yeah, I think I understand that - but it is nonetheless a key part of the equation. Oodles more profit on each truck may not translate into total additional profit overall. Total profit is what matters. I have seen a business die by concentrating more on margin than on volume. Not paying attention to the fact that the lower margin with much higher volume brought in more profit in the end.

Regardless, I am sure Ford put all of this into the equation and will adjust accordingly to the business. It still sucks for those who cannot next year take advantage of the tax credit. But if someone is buying an over $80,000 truck, maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[RickLightning]

But if someone is buying an over $80,000 truck, maybe it doesn't matter.

It totally does matter. Price hikes and loss of tax advantage raised price ~$15K. Whether I can afford a $90,000 truck or not isn't the issue. I had planned on buying a $78,000 truck, less $7,500 tax credit, $70,500. Comparing that to a $90,000 truck - not happening. Many feel the same.

 

[Jhalkias]

It totally does matter. Price hikes and loss of tax advantage raised price ~$15K. Whether I can afford a $90,000 truck or not isn't the issue. I had planned on buying a $78,000 truck, less $7,500 tax credit, $70,500. Comparing that to a $90,000 truck - not happening. Many feel the same.

Hence the word "sucks" and the other word "maybe".

To be clear, if I were not getting the truck that I found this year, I would NOT be buying the truck in 2023 for the very reasons you stated.

 

[Toby57]

I do think the number of those not taking delivery would surprise many who post on these forums.
Many who were on the fence about placing an order, never did.

 

[jimfigler]

The Lightning has both exceeded my expectations and led to some disappointment. I'll lead with the disappointment, for the XLT SR I feel like a few more basic features should've been included. If there was adaptive cruise control, keyless entry, and heated seats, I would feel like I had the necessities that a $57k truck should offer. As-is, it feels like some basic features were intentionally skipped as a way to coax people into a higher trim.

The in-between, it would be nearly impossible to have a SR Lightning as an only vehicle. My house has a M3 Performance, we are taking this on a road trip north this winter and there is no fear of charging issues. The Lighhtning SR is my around town vehicle, you couldn't convince me to take a long range trip in this thing. Winter range is very low and charging is suspect at best. I am not mad at this, I bought the truck as an around town vehicle, but it's very noticeable it's a limitation.

For the good... regarding software issues, what software issues? Maybe it's because I'm on the smaller screen, but everything has worked perfectly. The ride of the truck is also very comfortable and has enough zip I don't miss driving my faster Tesla. It handled 4 feet of snow well, also important for where I live. The utility of the truck is fantastic, I've done more truck stuff in the last month that simply can't be done in any other EV today, including the too small Rivian. Charging at home, I never have issues with daily driving, it's very convenient for getting around town.

The pros outweigh the cons to me and I don't regret buying the Lightning. I'm excited to upgrade to a gen 2 or 3 EV truck, but the next EV truck prices aren't getting any cheaper and supply isn't getting any better for a few years. Maybe I could have waited until 2025 to get something that checks more boxes, but I'd sure hate to have missed out on driving a Lightning for 2-3 years in the meantime.

You drove through 4’ of snow? We got over 5’ in basically 36 hours a few weeks back here in Buffalo and the plow was stuck on our road.

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