Could we expect price drop soon?

[GDN]

Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for Tesla and Mr. Musk. The Lightning doesnt exist without him, but what Tesla is doing has little to no effect on Lightning pricing.

Fact of the matter is the Lightning is the only Full size Pickup EV to market (Rivian is not full size). Tesla has only provided a Vaporware Spaceship Flavored EV Pickup. It will get to market but it is 2 years from meaningful volume. Ford is the only one in the market that has a real Full size pickup EV out. That is just fact. Also Fact is the Pickup truck market is the biggest vehicle market in the U.S. Ford has the EV Pickup high ground, so no need to drop MSRP.

Yea, maybe I'm off topic of the MSRP, I focused on one point. I also agree that Ford won't lower the MSRP. They aren't flexible enough. They'll just quickly and easily start discounting, which something easy for them to do. FOMOCO will start to hand them rebates and kickbacks to keep them moving.

The only thing that keeps these trucks selling at MSRP is their inability to scale. They've already had to pull too many features because they don't have control of their supply chain.

I don't know that we've seen numbers for the last month or so, but Ford won't get more than 50K Lightnings built this year if even that. They'll never reach their projected numbers.

So selling at MSRP is one simple part of the equation - it's about how many they can build and sell too. The others are on their heels.

Ford is going to have to go through the whole ramp process again in just barely 2 years with a new model and factory. They haven't even shown what it is going to look like and I'm guessing that is because it is getting tweaked and redesigned and they are scrambling.

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[F150ROD]

There will most likely never be a discount on the Ford Lightning, it’s just not going to happen. They might qualify for incentives like Military, Plans etc.

What will happen though is the 2nd Gen will come at a lower MSRP with LFP batteries and less features. The Cybertruck is not coming until the 2nd gen Lightning is getting ready to debut. Musk has already said there will be production models this summer…… full production next year, we all know what that means.

Maybe I am wrong, but the Lightning is just another Trim in the F-150 Lineup, but that trim is mixed in with the Tremor and Raptor. Those trucks are still going at a premium. So will the Lightnjng

The Mach-E on the other hand might have its MSRP lowered.

 

[Pioneer74]

I don't know that we've seen numbers for the last month or so, but Ford won't get more than 50K Lightnings built this year if even that. They'll never reach their projected numbers.

The production numbers should be increasing with the implementation of the third production crew. I believe we have some large projects going on over summer shutdown to fully integrate the two building expansions. That is when the numbers will really jump.

 

[luebri]

The production numbers should be increasing with the implementation of the third production crew. I believe we have some large projects going on over summer shutdown to fully integrate the two building expansions. That is when the numbers will really jump.

@GDN

Correct their current rate is like 2 or 3K/mo. The RAMP doesnt hit til August or September. So 50K would be about right for 2023. 150k RATE by End of Year 2023 does not mean 150k shipped in 2023. Very different.

I also think those banging on Ford for not being able to Ramp while others cant even get to market it is pretty rich. And lest I sound like a fanboy, I have zero brand loyalty to Ford and have never previously owned one.

Just calling balls and strikes.

 

[lakeguy55]

All these posts focus on the admittedly extreme price point of the Lariat/Platinum. I'm certainly not defending the prices, but no one has mentioned the costs for a similarly outfitted ICE F-150.

I've built an ICE 150 with similar options and features that I'd want in comparison to the Lightning. The MSRP is about $10K lower, which for me is a trade-off I'm willing to make to have an EV version and (hopefully) lower maintenance costs over time.

 

[lakeguy55]

Clearly the market is softening quickly. I just got a call from my dealer. He has a Lariat on the lot, configured very similarly to my order, and wanted to offer it to me at MSRP. It has a few more options that raise the price, is a color I don't want, and would be available immediately (I'm sure end-of-month inventory is factoring in). In my case, I'm in no rush and actually prefer a delivery later in the spring. So I passed.

But they were pushing pretty hard. Makes the days of $30K over MSRP seem pretty silly now.

 

[chl]

Clearly the market is softening quickly. I just got a call from my dealer. He has a Lariat on the lot, configured very similarly to my order, and wanted to offer it to me at MSRP. It has a few more options that raise the price, is a color I don't want, and would be available immediately (I'm sure end-of-month inventory is factoring in). In my case, I'm in no rush and actually prefer a delivery later in the spring. So I passed.

But they were pushing pretty hard. Makes the days of $30K over MSRP seem pretty silly now.

For all you folks who think Ford will not lower their EV prices, they just cut the Mach-e price in an apparent response to the TESLA competition I read in the paper today.
-----

After Tesla price cut, Ford follows suit with Mustang Mach-E
By Tom Krisher | AP
January 30, 2023 at 11:51 a.m. EST

DETROIT — Ford is cutting prices on its Mustang Mach-E electric SUV by as much as $6,000 just weeks after market leader Tesla took similar steps.
The Detroit automaker is increasing production of the Mach-E this year and said it is taking advantage of streamlined costs to reduce prices across the board, it said Monday.
The cut comes just over two weeks after Tesla Inc. dropped prices 6% to nearly 20% in the United States on most of its models in an effort to bolster demand and raise market share.
Ford’s maneuver will almost certainly force other automakers to trim prices as well, touching off a bit of a price war for electric vehicles, said Jeff Schuster, president of global forecasting for LMC Automotive, a Detroit-area consulting firm.
“To remain price competitive to consumers, it’s going to require a response from anyone who wants to play in this area,” he said.
However, Schuster says he doesn’t see an all-out price war that brings prices down even more. Automakers will try to protect profit margins on EVs as their share of the U.S. market keeps growing, he said.
Although Ford didn’t mention Tesla in its statement, the Dearborn, Michigan, company said the price cuts are part of Ford’s plan to keep the SUV competitive in a fast-changing market.
“We are not going to cede ground to anyone,” said Marin Gjaja, Chief Customer Officer of Ford Model e, the company’s electric vehicle unit.
The price of a base rear-wheel-drive standard range Mach-E will drop $900, from $46,895 to $45,995. The top-end GT extended range will fall $5,900, from $69,895 to $63,995. The prices don’t include shipping, government fees or taxes.
On Jan. 13, Tesla Inc. slashed prices dramatically on several versions of its electric vehicles, making some of its models eligible for a new federal tax credit that could help spur buyer interest.
The company dropped prices nearly 20% in the United States on some versions of the Model Y SUV, its top seller. That cut will make more versions of the Model Y eligible for a $7,500 electric-vehicle tax credit, which will be available through March. Tesla also reduced the base price of the Model 3, its least expensive model, by about 6%.
The cuts were in response to slowing demand and Tesla’s sagging stock price. But CEO Elon Musk predicted they would yield stronger sales, with the company delivering 1.8 million vehicles this year, up 40% from 2022.
Ford said its price cuts are designed to make the Mach-E a more compelling option for EV customers, and to grow the company’s EV market share...

-----

So when there are more EV pickups around to choose from, they'll have to lower prices of the Lightning (or offer more basic models) to compete.

Econ 101: price depends on the relationship between supply and demand. Once the supply ramps up, the prices will come down naturally.

The the demand level for a product declines as its price rises - hence the $80k and up Lightnings sitting on lots unsold.

At some price level the equilibrium price will be achieved - the equilibrium price is the price at which demand matches supply, producing a market equilibrium acceptable to buyers and sellers.

So pretty soon, in the 2024 model year, Tesla, Ford, Chevy, etc., will all be competing for sales of EV trucks it seems.

I have read that both Chevy and Nissan are considering smaller EV pickups. My little 1975 Mazda Rotary Powered pickup had a 6ft bed (like my Ranger) and the single bench seat was fine for me - I could put/squeeze 2 passengers in the front and anyone else could ride in the back. Of course I was in my 20's then and a bit skinnier.

Put an EV power train in a smaller (and lighter) pickup and that's be a fast and powerful little beast! Range would improve as well.

I can wait for a better price if the Silverado and/or Cybertruck are too pricey.

 

[greenne]

For all you folks who think Ford will not lower their EV prices, they just cut the Mach-e price in an apparent response to the TESLA competition I read in the paper today.
-----

After Tesla price cut, Ford follows suit with Mustang Mach-E
By Tom Krisher | AP
January 30, 2023 at 11:51 a.m. EST

DETROIT — Ford is cutting prices on its Mustang Mach-E electric SUV by as much as $6,000 just weeks after market leader Tesla took similar steps.
The Detroit automaker is increasing production of the Mach-E this year and said it is taking advantage of streamlined costs to reduce prices across the board, it said Monday.
The cut comes just over two weeks after Tesla Inc. dropped prices 6% to nearly 20% in the United States on most of its models in an effort to bolster demand and raise market share.
Ford’s maneuver will almost certainly force other automakers to trim prices as well, touching off a bit of a price war for electric vehicles, said Jeff Schuster, president of global forecasting for LMC Automotive, a Detroit-area consulting firm.
“To remain price competitive to consumers, it’s going to require a response from anyone who wants to play in this area,” he said.
However, Schuster says he doesn’t see an all-out price war that brings prices down even more. Automakers will try to protect profit margins on EVs as their share of the U.S. market keeps growing, he said.
Although Ford didn’t mention Tesla in its statement, the Dearborn, Michigan, company said the price cuts are part of Ford’s plan to keep the SUV competitive in a fast-changing market.
“We are not going to cede ground to anyone,” said Marin Gjaja, Chief Customer Officer of Ford Model e, the company’s electric vehicle unit.
The price of a base rear-wheel-drive standard range Mach-E will drop $900, from $46,895 to $45,995. The top-end GT extended range will fall $5,900, from $69,895 to $63,995. The prices don’t include shipping, government fees or taxes.
On Jan. 13, Tesla Inc. slashed prices dramatically on several versions of its electric vehicles, making some of its models eligible for a new federal tax credit that could help spur buyer interest.
The company dropped prices nearly 20% in the United States on some versions of the Model Y SUV, its top seller. That cut will make more versions of the Model Y eligible for a $7,500 electric-vehicle tax credit, which will be available through March. Tesla also reduced the base price of the Model 3, its least expensive model, by about 6%.
The cuts were in response to slowing demand and Tesla’s sagging stock price. But CEO Elon Musk predicted they would yield stronger sales, with the company delivering 1.8 million vehicles this year, up 40% from 2022.
Ford said its price cuts are designed to make the Mach-E a more compelling option for EV customers, and to grow the company’s EV market share...

-----

So when there are more EV pickups around to choose from, they'll have to lower prices of the Lightning (or offer more basic models) to compete.

Econ 101: price depends on the relationship between supply and demand. Once the supply ramps up, the prices will come down naturally.

The the demand level for a product declines as its price rises - hence the $80k and up Lightnings sitting on lots unsold.

At some price level the equilibrium price will be achieved - the equilibrium price is the price at which demand matches supply, producing a market equilibrium acceptable to buyers and sellers.

So pretty soon, in the 2024 model year, Tesla, Ford, Chevy, etc., will all be competing for sales of EV trucks it seems.

I have read that both Chevy and Nissan are considering smaller EV pickups. My little 1975 Mazda Rotary Powered pickup had a 6ft bed (like my Ranger) and the single bench seat was fine for me - I could put/squeeze 2 passengers in the front and anyone else could ride in the back. Of course I was in my 20's then and a bit skinnier.

Put an EV power train in a smaller (and lighter) pickup and that's be a fast and powerful little beast! Range would improve as well.

I can wait for a better price if the Silverado and/or Cybertruck are too pricey.

The difference is the Mach E and Model Y are direct competitors in terms of size, price, and class of vehicle. People will cross shop a MME and a Model Y. Ford chose to lower price to remain competitive in this segment.

There is no Tesla competitor to the Lightning.(yet). When(if) Tesla ever ramps up Cybertruck production Ford *may* have to look at Lightning prices. Until there is a true competitor Ford has no reason to lower Lightning prices...

 

[F150ROD]

The difference is the Mach E and Model Y are direct competitors in terms of size, price, and class of vehicle. People will cross shop a MME and a Model Y. Ford chose to lower price to remain competitive in this segment.

There is no Tesla competitor to the Lightning.(yet). When(if) Tesla ever ramps up Cybertruck production Ford *may* have to look at Lightning prices. Until there is a true competitor Ford has no reason to lower Lightning prices...

Exactly. Even when the CT comes out, Ford will not lower the price until the 2nd gen Lightning with LFP batteries.

Ford is selling Lightnings as a fleet vehicle also and they are selling like hot cakes. There is no reason for Ford to lower the price, especially when they are focused on beating GM. If GM somehow undercuts Ford then I could see them cut the price. The CT will have no influence on whether they cut the price or not.

I still believe the CT reservation numbers aren’t accurate. Too many people placed reservations for up to 10 CT. The Flippers are waiting to make money which they know the Cult will pay.

 

[chl]

Exactly. Even when the CT comes out, Ford will not lower the price until the 2nd gen Lightning with LFP batteries.

Ford is selling Lightnings as a fleet vehicle also and they are selling like hot cakes. There is no reason for Ford to lower the price, especially when they are focused on beating GM. If GM somehow undercuts Ford then I could see them cut the price. The CT will have no influence on whether they cut the price or not.

I still believe the CT reservation numbers aren’t accurate. Too many people placed reservations for up to 10 CT. The Flippers are waiting to make money which they know the Cult will pay.

Ford: get ready for a price cut - the Silverado is coming the first half of 2023!

"The Chevrolet Equinox EV, for example, which is scheduled to launch this summer along with the Chevy Blazer EV, will have a base price in the low $30,000s. GM says it expects to cut EV cell costs to $87 per kilowatt-hour by 2025, which could be a stretch target, even two years from now. "

https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...riced-right-wont-follow-tesla-ford-msrp-cuts/

If Ford does not lower the price, there will be a lot of unsold pricey Lightnings, perhaps?

 

[luebri]

Ford: get ready for a price cut - the Silverado is coming the first half of 2023!

"The Chevrolet Equinox EV, for example, which is scheduled to launch this summer along with the Chevy Blazer EV, will have a base price in the low $30,000s. GM says it expects to cut EV cell costs to $87 per kilowatt-hour by 2025, which could be a stretch target, even two years from now. "

https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...riced-right-wont-follow-tesla-ford-msrp-cuts/

If Ford does not lower the price, there will be a lot of unsold pricey Lightnings, perhaps?

The Silverados coming out this year will be their top model which is ~$100k. Also the WT2 and Wt3. Which from my understanding are high end and expensive work trucks. The regular WT which they probably won’t make very many of is likely not available til 2024.

 

[chl]

Ford: get ready for a price cut - the Silverado is coming the first half of 2023!

"The Chevrolet Equinox EV, for example, which is scheduled to launch this summer along with the Chevy Blazer EV, will have a base price in the low $30,000s. GM says it expects to cut EV cell costs to $87 per kilowatt-hour by 2025, which could be a stretch target, even two years from now. "

https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...riced-right-wont-follow-tesla-ford-msrp-cuts/

If Ford does not lower the price, there will be a lot of unsold pricey Lightnings, perhaps?

Yes, fleet vehicles for $55k MSRP less $7500 tax credit = $47, 500 will sell well, especially since companies can write the cost off as a business expense. I'd have bought one for that price myself, but all I was given the chance to buy was a Lariat starting at $74k...big difference!

 

[chl]

The Silverados coming out this year will be their top model which is ~$100k. Also the WT2 and Wt3. Which from my understanding are high end and expensive work trucks. The regular WT which they probably won’t make very many of is likely not available til 2024.

NOT what Chevy is saying - they still say the work trucks are coming first, last time I checked.

See re release work trucks first: https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...riced-right-wont-follow-tesla-ford-msrp-cuts/

"The Chevrolet Silverado EV work truck is set to launch in the first half of this year..."

And pricing:

Look for the first models in spring of 2023 starting at $39,900.

While a number of configurations will ultimately be possible, the first Silverado EVs will come in two models: RST (Rally Sport Truck) and WT (Work Truck).

If that last item (RST $105k) caused you to rock back on your heels, the Work Truck trim level of the Silverado EV will sacrifice some performance for a much lower sticker, starting at $39,900, GM says. It’ll make do with “only” 510 hp, 615 lb-ft, 8000 pounds of towing capacity and 1200 pounds of payload. That still sounds pretty good. A 20,000-pound towing capacity is promised for later.

In something of a flip of usual model launches, Chevy says the first model available will be the WT in spring of 2023 with the full 400 miles of range, though it did not list a price for that model. The RST First Edition arrives in fall 2023, also with a 400-mile range, for $105,000, followed by the $39,900 Work Truck.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/trucks/a38670675/2024-chevy-silverado-ev-reveal/

 

[chl]

NOT what Chevy is saying - they still say the work trucks are coming first, last time I checked.

See re pricing: https://www.autoweek.com/news/indus...riced-right-wont-follow-tesla-ford-msrp-cuts/

If you have different information, post the link.

 

[luebri]

If you have different information, post the link.

https://tfltruck.com/2022/11/new-2024-chevy-silverado-ev-work-truck-specs-pricing-are-reported/

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