Range Super Low? Lariat ER at 1.7kwh

[lancersrock]

I drive about 150 miles a day at 65-70 and am using about 60% of my battery while getting 1.6 to 1.7 when at 50 degrees. When it is below 30 it drops to about 1.4-1.5. Id say your getting what is expected, epa is outdated and all of the tests are at 55 mph.

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[RickLightning]

At least for the Mach-E, Ford has said that there is no difference in efficiency regardless of mode, including using 1PD. Throttle response is changed, steering is changed, and regeneration is changed. But - since the vehicles use "blended braking", where the actual brake pads are not engaged until the end of the push on the pedal, they all end up the same. In other words, if the vehicle has aggressive regen, that's the same as having low regen but the person has to push on the brake pedal to slow.

I would expect that to hold true for the F-150L, haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise.

 

[Robilium]

Ooooo interesting. I didn't realize there was blended braking with the physical brake. that's cool.

 

[cvalue13]

epa is outdated and all of the tests are at 55 mph.

while the EPA tests may be outdated or misleading in some way, they aren’t at 55mph

Results of all the above cycles are taken and averaged to reach the headline EPA figures.

For BEVs, these are all done in a dyno, but results are multiplied by an inefficiency factor (apparently usually 0.7) to account for various real world inefficiencies.

 

[lancersrock]

while the EPA tests may be outdated or misleading in some way, they aren’t at 55mph

Results of all the above cycles are taken and averaged to reach the headline EPA figures.

For BEVs, these are all done in a dyno, but results are multiplied by an inefficiency factor (apparently usually 0.7) to account for various real world inefficiencies.

Thanks for the info and link! The average speed is still only 48 mph on both the highway and high speed test, so i dont know how that translates to real world highway driving (typically longer ranges at a higher rate of speed). another thing i thought was interesting is using the .7 factor, how is does this achieve consistent results considering some vehicles have much better aero?

 

[cvalue13]

another thing i thought was interesting is using the .7 factor, how is does this achieve consistent results considering some vehicles have much better aero?

apparently the regs allow for various ways to adjust the dyno tests to real world conditions, with the 0.7 just being a common example factor.

To some extent this would seem to police itself, as manufactures will have every incentive to both maximize the EPA mileage rating, while also sandbagging for customer expectations.

ultimately, the EPA mileage estimates for BEVs are probably no less hypothetical thanI’ve ever experienced in ICE vehicles.

 

[Maxx]

Just did a 150 mile trip and ended up with 2.7 mi/KWh. Battery was warm when I left. temp in 50s. Minimal use of heat. 65 mph and lower most of the time with some 70 mph. I was seeing 2.9 and above for a lot of “This trips“ along the way (I had a bunch of stops) but 2.7 ended up being the average for the whole thing.

 

[nanohead]

We're getting the exact same range. 1.7-1.8 M/Kw if we're lucky.
Having trouble getting a non fear inducing 200 miles out of the Lariat ER. We drive from northern NJ to southern VT every weekend, exactly 200 miles door to door and we can't realistically make the trip without charging somewhere in the middle, which is a challenge as public charging is horrific.

This winter has been seriously eye opening for range reduction. We went through 2 winters with our Mach E and it takes a 25-30% range hit in the ultra cold.

But the Lightning basically takes a 40-50% hit in the cold, which is really rough.

Much as I love the truck, it might be a few years too early for something as big and heavy as the Lightning to be used as a highway vehicle for our purposes... Ironically, if public charging was even 20% as reliable and plentiful as gas stations are, I could probably get my head around it. But with like 50-60% of the public chargers on our regular routes broken/hung/crashed/offline all the time, its hard to be optimistic

 

[RickLightning]

We're getting the exact same range. 1.7-1.8 M/Kw if we're lucky.
Having trouble getting a non fear inducing 200 miles out of the Lariat ER. We drive from northern NJ to southern VT every weekend, exactly 200 miles door to door and we can't realistically make the trip without charging somewhere in the middle, which is a challenge as public charging is horrific.

This winter has been seriously eye opening for range reduction. We went through 2 winters with our Mach E and it takes a 25-30% range hit in the ultra cold.

But the Lightning basically takes a 40-50% hit in the cold, which is really rough.

Much as I love the truck, it might be a few years too early for something as big and heavy as the Lightning to be used as a highway vehicle for our purposes... Ironically, if public charging was even 20% as reliable and plentiful as gas stations are, I could probably get my head around it. But with like 50-60% of the public chargers on our regular routes broken/hung/crashed/offline all the time, its hard to be optimistic

I think you need to recheck your math.

The winter hit as a % won't differ much between the Mach-E and the Lightning, and I don't think you're getting even a 40% hit in the winter with the Lightning.

Now, you're getting 1.7 with the Lightning. If it was taking a 40% hit, that would mean the summer is 2.8 and a 50% hit would be 3.4.

 

[frautumn]

Just did a 150 mile trip and ended up with 2.7 mi/KWh.

I don't trust the trip meter, only numbers that matter are what charge % you started and ended with, and how many miles you went on the odometer. That will tell you your actual mi/KWh.

 

[mr.Magoo]

I think you need to recheck your math

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I suppose it all depends what one is trying to prove, 50% range reduction get more clicks than 25% ;-)


EPA range of 320 down to a realistic real life range in cold climates of 180-200 is a 40% decrease
Going from same to same i.e. 70mph highway driving in warm v.s. cold climate and you'll probably see closer to a 20-25% decrease.

I used to get 2.1.-2.2 miles/kW, now I'm lucky if I get 1.6-1.7, I'm not particularly heavy on the throttle but I don't have an egg under my foot either, that's 20-30%.

In the end, regardless of % loss, I agree with @nanohead, doing 200 mile trips in the winter with a limited charging network is sketchy at best, there's too many factors involved.
That doesn't make the truck any better or worse, it's fantastic and I love mine, just sayin' it's not a "one size fits all".

 

[RickLightning]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I suppose it all depends what one is trying to prove, 50% range reduction get more clicks than 25% ;-)


EPA range of 320 down to a realistic real life range in cold climates of 180-200 is a 40% decrease
Going from same to same i.e. 70mph highway driving in warm v.s. cold climate and you'll probably see closer to a 20-25% decrease.

I used to get 2.1.-2.2 miles/kW, now I'm lucky if I get 1.6-1.7, I'm not particularly heavy on the throttle but I don't have an egg under my foot either, that's 20-30%.

In the end, regardless of % loss, I agree with @nanohead, doing 200 mile trips in the winter with a limited charging network is sketchy at best, there's too many factors involved.
That doesn't make the truck any better or worse, it's fantastic and I love mine, just sayin' it's not a "one size fits all".

Going from 2.1 to 1.6 is a 23.8% reduction. Going from 2.2 to 1.6 would be 27.3%.

Yup - 20 to 30%, not 50%.

Yes, a 200 mile LEG is a challenge in the winter. If you leave with 100%, and you set a departure time, and use the heat sparingly, and don't drive over 70, it shouldn't be a problem. But, if you're charging to 80 or 90% on the highway, then it could be.

 

[nanohead]

Going from 2.1 to 1.6 is a 23.8% reduction. Going from 2.2 to 1.6 would be 27.3%.

Yup - 20 to 30%, not 50%.

Yes, a 200 mile LEG is a challenge in the winter. If you leave with 100%, and you set a departure time, and use the heat sparingly, and don't drive over 70, it shouldn't be a problem. But, if you're charging to 80 or 90% on the highway, then it could be.

At 100% charge, preheated/preconditioned, and cabin at 65 plus seat heaters on 1, we are lucky to get 180-190 miles. And that is with cruise set at 70-72 depending on traffic.

I don't care about all the KwH math, it doesn't help the real world problem. I care about a severe falloff in usable range. If the stated range is 320, and I can only get 180-190 miles of range, then my math says its an actual 40+ percentage range reduction, period. When it was really cold a few weeks ago, we were lucky to get around 150 miles, and when we went to a brand new charging station with 4 x 350 KW chargers, only 1 actually ended up working and that took 20 minutes of fiddling to get it to work.

 

[Maxx]

I don't trust the trip meter, only numbers that matter are what charge % you started and ended with, and how many miles you went on the odometer. That will tell you your actual mi/KWh.

The % number is as much of a guess as anything else. It is an estimate. It is not like the gas in a tank that has fixed volume (which changes as well slightly by temperature). No one is counting electrons to give you that percentage. But I get your point, in short distances traveled there could be larger errors but over 150 miles, it was pretty accurate. I started with 95% on standard battery and ended up with 40%.

on the way back, it was a different story. I got 1.9 mi/KWh. My average speed was higher and stayed around 80 for a part of it. Wind may have helped me a bit on the way down as well. Not quite sure about that. But I think sweet spot is around 65 mph.

 

[tidemacedo]

Ok. Phoning some friends here.

I have had my Lariat ER for 2 months and 2300 miles. I live in California where the temp has been 35 to 70 degrees out. I have the all terrain tire swap instead of all season. For about 400 of the miles I have had a lightweight paragon tonneau cover. I am not carryobg

I have been AVERAGING 1.7kwh per mile. When driving long distances down the 101 at 70 or 80mph I have been getting 1.4 to 1.5. I have tried pre heating and even turning the HVAC off. What is odd is that sometimes I will do highway driving 40 miles and get 2.0 kWh. Off highway I get a great 2.8+.

1.5 doesn’t even get me 200 miles of range at full charge (not including battery degradation over time).

anyone else seeing such horrible range? Any advice?

I have had 2 different Tesla X and have never seen this wide variation.

I do live in SoCal and my hwy speeds are never over 70. Stock tires and driving 50/50 city/hwy. thats what I get as a range.

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