[Updated with Ford statement 2/15/23] 🛑 Lightning Stop Production / Stop Shipment Issued (due to potential battery issue)

[lightspeed]

Bottom line - higher currents hurt the cell more (both charge and discharge), high SOC levels (both storage and delta during cycling) hurt the cells more, and higher temperatures hurt the cells more.

When you say 'delta during cycling' are you saying that charging the battery once from 30% to 80% (1x 50% delta) is worse for the battery than charging it 5 times from 70% to 80% (5x 10% delta)?

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[Simsonic]

Mickey AO has some great advice and is correct. There are battery testers that also do this analysis, and not just EVs, but all kinds of devices that use the similar battery technology.

- Mickey AO says 85%, but the real number is to keep your charge under 95% (from a majority of experts).

- I charge to 90%, simply because the battery capacity on our trucks in already limited to a below 100% threshold (per the capacity of the battery). Ford already does much of this work for us, and they recommend 90%, which is below experts recommended range of 95% anyways. This is splitting hairs, really.

- Slow charging is better for longevity than fast charging.

- Rarely should you go to 100%, and don't let it sit for days if you do, use it soon.

- Rarely should you go to 0% and charge it soon if you do.

- How you drive is important. accelerating like an animal degrades battery and battery life. It is okay occasionally, but it does have an impact on battery health.

Important side note: These are good to follow rules with you cell phones, tablets, and other battery driven devices. Do not charge your phone or watch overnight and leave them on the charger for that long. Charge your phone to 95% and take it off.

 

[metroshot]

So is it Ok to charge F150L to 100% or just Teslas?

Depends on your needs.

I always charge mine to 100% on L2 once a week.
Fast charge (L3) to 90%.

I don't believe in shortchanging my range.

Won't keep the truck past the warranty anyway.

 

[GDN]

....

Won't keep the truck past the warranty anyway.

That's one hell of an attitude to think about a future owner and making our current resources last as long as they can.

 

[F150ROD]

I’m assuming there will be a TSB or stop driving memo that will be issued soon based off the article. While it might be an inconvenience, it’s good to see Ford getting ahead of this. One truck catching fire in the hands of an owner would be devastating for the Lightning.

 

[GDN]

So is it Ok to charge F150L to 100% or just Teslas?

There are no blanket rules. Tesla already has LiIon and LFP batteries. Tesla doesn't hide the top end of the battery like Ford, so there are two different charging strategies depending on what you own for Tesla.

Ford is very different - even with Liion batteries - they hide the top end from us - you can't charge it even if you wanted, so I'm not saying you can (and I don't) but charging a Lightning or Mach-E to 100% is very different than charging a Liion based Tesla to 100%.

Bottom line is if you want blanket rules - 90% or so should be your top unless you need it. Otherwise - know what you have and follow a decent rule. If you need to charge to 100 or drive it to 0 - do it, just don't leave either extreme very long.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

I’m assuming there will be a TSB or stop driving memo that will be issued soon based off the article.

What makes you think that? Everything indicates this has been isolated and does not impact all vehicles or even a large number of vehicles

 

[F150ROD]

What makes you think that? Everything indicates this has been isolated and does not impact all vehicles or even a large number of vehicles

While this may be true, would it be an issue to just double check current vehicles? I mean there is a recall for a motor for the wiper arm, which did not affect my vehicle but was still checked and replaced. I’d say this is much more important than a wiper arm.

Or Ford could send all of us one of those emails explaining why we shouldn’t be concerned about Battery Failure/Fire. Currently close to 22k miles and counting, so far so good but it’s now a daily decision, take the EV or the reliable ICE.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Mickey AO has some great advice and is correct. There are battery testers that also do this analysis, and not just EVs, but all kinds of devices that use the similar battery technology.

- Mickey AO says 85%, but the real number is to keep your charge under 95% (from a majority of experts).

- I charge to 90%, simply because the battery capacity on our trucks in already limited to a below 100% threshold (per the capacity of the battery). Ford already does much of this work for us, and they recommend 90%, which is below experts recommended range of 95% anyways. This is splitting hairs, really.

- Slow charging is better for longevity than fast charging.

- Rarely should you go to 100%, and don't let it sit for days if you do, use it soon.

- Rarely should you go to 0% and charge it soon if you do.

- How you drive is important. accelerating like an animal degrades battery and battery life. It is okay occasionally, but it does have an impact on battery health.

Important side note: These are good to follow rules with you cell phones, tablets, and other battery driven devices. Do not charge your phone or watch overnight and leave them on the charger for that long. Charge your phone to 95% and take it off.

Mostly correct, as is Mickey. However, Elon Musk has said that 80% is better for daily usage max than 85%. Further, this all ignores cell balancing. I think Mickey may have referenced this somewhere, but Tesla actually has a shop process (accessible if you know how from the main screen) where the vehicle automatically runs the battery down to near zero, then charges to near max - necessary to train the BMS and to balance the individual cells (7,104 cells grouped into 16 packs in a Tesla MS or MX). This is performed as a routine thing in Tesla service centers when a customer complains about lost range because it “restores” range that has appeared to go missing. It does not actually add any range, but resets the BMS’s knowledge base with respect to the cells it is managing - it re-learns the top and bottom ends of the battery capacity, appearing to “find” range at the top end.

Another technique not mentioned here that we cannot do with Ford’s charging system is to set the rate of charge at a lower speed when charging at home - this comports with Mickey’s advice to charge slower and with less heat. I charged my former Teslas at 20 amps overnight, even though our home chargers were both Gen 1 Tesla wall charges and could put out 80 amps. At the higher amps, 60 or above, the cables would get very hot, almost seem ready to melt, and it was clear that the car preferred slower charging, so if doing so overnight, why not do so more gently? Perhaps Ford will give us the ability to throttle charging speed at some point without having to open up the wall charger?

Disagree completely on cell phones, computers and tablets, especially Apples. Not worth the hassle. Read up on Apple’s latest charge management strategies. They already time-manage charging, holding off, slowing charges based on user habits. Plus their batteries a quite robust and the change-out cycle is far quicker than with most cars. I will never have a phone more than two years, am not going to think twice or spend a second thinking about trying to maximize battery life. Same for tablets and iMac. Switch out for latest tech every two years, get the largest available version, 4 tb memory, largest battery, move on. Yes, disposable lifestyle to some extent, but life is too short for some trivia/brain damage. Apple’s battery optimization software also has a battery recalibration process wherein it “recalibrates maximum battery capacity and peak performance capability on iPhones to address inaccurate estimates”.

 

[Simsonic]

Mostly correct, as is Mickey. However, Elon Musk has said that 80% is better for daily usage max than 85%. Further, this all ignores cell balancing. I think Mickey may have referenced this somewhere, but Tesla actually has a shop process (accessible if you know how from the main screen) where the vehicle automatically runs the battery down to near zero, then charges to near max - necessary to train the BMS and to balance the individual cells (7,104 cells grouped into 16 packs in a Tesla MS or MX). This is performed as a routine thing in Tesla service centers when a customer complains about lost range because it “restores” range that has appeared to go missing. It does not actually add any range, but resets the BMS’s knowledge base with respect to the cells it is managing - it re-learns the top and bottom ends of the battery capacity, appearing to “find” range at the top end.

Another technique not mentioned here that we cannot do with Ford’s charging system is to set the rate of charge at a lower speed when charging at home - this comports with Mickey’s advice to charge slower and with less heat. I charged my former Teslas at 20 amps overnight, even though our home chargers were both Gen 1 Tesla wall charges and could put out 80 amps. At the higher amps, 60 or above, the cables would get very hot, almost seem ready to melt, and it was clear that the car preferred slower charging, so if doing so overnight, why not do so more gently? Perhaps Ford will give us the ability to throttle charging speed at some point without having to open up the wall charger?

Yes, I think this is often overlooked. My home charger is 40 amps and I refuse to go over that simply because slower is better. Good comments.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Another technique not mentioned here that we cannot do with Ford’s charging system is to set the rate of charge at a lower speed when charging at home - this comports with Mickey’s advice to charge slower and with less heat. I charged my former Teslas at 20 amps overnight, even though our home chargers were both Gen 1 Tesla wall charges and could put out 80 amps. At the higher amps, 60 or above, the cables would get very hot, almost seem ready to melt, and it was clear that the car preferred slower charging, so if doing so overnight, why not do so more gently? Perhaps Ford will give us the ability to throttle charging speed at some point without having to open up the wall charger?

Actually, if you're using the FCSP, it is possible to derate the current flow without opening the cabinet

Below are Ford Pass steps, and my emporia vue2 readout to confirm that derating is possible.
Account--------------------Charge Station-------Settings--------------4295w / 240v ~18 amps

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

While this may be true, would it be an issue to just double check current vehicles? I mean there is a recall for a motor for the wiper arm, which did not affect my vehicle but was still checked and replaced. I’d say this is much more important than a wiper arm.

Or Ford could send all of us one of those emails explaining why we shouldn’t be concerned about Battery Failure/Fire. Currently close to 22k miles and counting, so far so good but it’s now a daily decision, take the EV or the reliable ICE.

Ah, I think I understand. You want to know your vehicle isn't impacted, which is fair enough. It has clearly been stated that they do not believe vehicles in the field are affected.

It's possible no further details ever get released on exactly what happened. To your point of checking for the issue and comparing to the wiper motor, take this entirely made up hypothetical scenario: It is found that the mold that makes the wiper arms wasn't operating correctly thus leaving them prone to breaking prematurely. The parts are not tracked as to what vehicle they go on or even what manufacturer even gets it so all parts need to be check for the batch number to know if it needs to be replaced.

A very different but still totally made up and hypothetical situation is a bolt comes loose and causes an issue (engine failure, seat belt to come loose, battery to short, whatever). When the issue happens there is an investigation and it is found the tool at the plant is not torquing to the amount it is saying it is set to. Since the bolt is a critical one, the torque it applied for that specific bolt on that specific VIN is stored and every VIN that has been torqued since the last calibration is now known and can be checked to determine the scope of the problem.

In contrast to the first example where parts have to physically be looked at to check batch number to see if they are suspect, once the issue is known the entire suspect population has already been identified in the second case. So only those that need to be checked are actually brought in.

So the official statement that they don't believe vehicles in the field are affected carries a lot of weight.

 

[F150ROD]

Ah, I think I understand. You want to know your vehicle isn't impacted, which is fair enough. It has clearly been stated that they do not believe vehicles in the field are affected.

It's possible no further details ever get released on exactly what happened. To your point of checking for the issue and comparing to the wiper motor, take this entirely made up hypothetical scenario: It is found that the mold that makes the wiper arms wasn't operating correctly thus leaving them prone to breaking prematurely. The parts are not tracked as to what vehicle they go on or even what manufacturer even gets it so all parts need to be check for the batch number to know if it needs to be replaced.

A very different but still totally made up and hypothetical situation is a bolt comes loose and causes an issue (engine failure, seat belt to come loose, battery to short, whatever). When the issue happens there is an investigation and it is found the tool at the plant is not torquing to the amount it is saying it is set to. Since the bolt is a critical one, the torque it applied for that specific bolt on that specific VIN is stored and every VIN that has been torqued since the last calibration is now known and can be checked to determine the scope of the problem.

In contrast to the first example where parts have to physically be looked at to check batch number to see if they are suspect, once the issue is known the entire suspect population has already been identified in the second case. So only those that need to be checked are actually brought in.

So the official statement that they don't believe vehicles in the field are affected carries a lot of weight.

Thank you. Something as simple as this to owners would give everyone the warm and fuzzies.

We on these forums are very well informed with what is happening, but I am assuming there are a large percentage of owners that don’t venture into forums who will be clueless.

 

[GDN]

Thank you. Something as simple as this to owners would give everyone the warm and fuzzies.

We on these forums are very well informed with what is happening, but I am assuming there are a large percentage of owners that don’t venture into forums who will be clueless.

I think they will be very careful or likely never say our existing trucks aren't affected, because there are SO many things that can still go wrong. If they gave us some sort of all clear and then another unknown problem crops up. They leave some sort of open hole legally.

I as well understand what you are saying and where you come from, I just don't think we'll get it. In today's world I figure they'll disclose more about what they found and why they don't think it might not affect already built trucks, but I don't think they'll give us any kind of all clear.

 

[CAMB150]

I'm no battery expert. Perhaps I'm wrong but my impression is manufactures know that batteries should not be charged to 100% or drained to 0% since its not good for the battery. So they limit the charge or discharge themselves. What you read on display may not reflect actual. So if that is the case then charging to 100% should be fine.
My other thought is that some of these reserved cells get opened slowly over time. One of the uses is lessen the slope of degradation of battery that happens after first year. Didn't Tesla opened some cell of their cars to help during an hurricane at one point to help with range?

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