Ford's Lightning; How they ruined a great product.

[BennyTheBeaver]

TLDR; Ford had the opportunity to capture a Market with their revolutionary product, they have let everyone including their employees down.

It's starting to be reported that most, if not all, of reservations have gone out. My thoughts are strictly geared to the consumer market (as Ford treats consumer and fleet seperately, and purchase decisions for consumer and business are vastly different).

We knew the that all the 150k+ reservations weren't going to convert and teasing people with the $40k price tag bit Ford hard (a large portion of those reservations were $40k Pro or nothing...that's what I was, I know I got extremely lucky).

Ford has now exhausted their reservation list, pissed alot of potential customers off, and now have to deal with marketing the Lightning to a significantly higher income demographic than originally anticipated. What was the truck of the year, the best buy in EV, and a cornerstone for the forward progress of Ford into a new era, is quickly becoming (unfairly) an afterthought.

The way they integrated the dealer network into this reservation/ordering process can't be described as anything other than a catastrophic failure. Dealing with my dealer was and still is the biggest stain on my ownership experience. I own a Lightning (best vehicle I have ever owned) and won't buy another Ford if I have to go through the same process again. My dealer has absolutely lost at least 6 sales (EV and ICE) due to me giving honest feedback to friends and family.

Ford Motor Company has made a fantastic product. The upper management (and CEO) have ruined the positive momentum that the core of Ford (engineers and manufacturers) have built.

In the end, Ford has converted less than a fifth of the reservations they recieved. How everyone associated with the marketing, management, and oversight of the Lightning consumer platform is still employed is beyond surprising.

Blaming market conditions, material availability, and basically anything other than themselves is just a bunch of tomfoolery. Other EV makers are making a profit on every vehicle sold (Ford loses money on every EV sold), some manufacturers are making a ridiculous profit.

To be clear; my 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning Pro I own is the best vehicle I have owned/driven (and I've driven alot). That's right, the base F-150 Lightning model has beaten the ICE F-150s, Silverados, Rams, Teslas, Rivian, and various performance focused cars I've owned/rented/driven for extended periods of time. To have that great of a product, yet have a process that leaves such a negative taste in a consumers mouth, says everything Ford needs to know about what an utter failure of management and direction this company currently has.

@Ford Motor Company If you read this (doubtful)...please know: The Engineers, Developers, and Manufacturers should be applauded for a brilliant product. Ford should feel privledged to retain those employees through their gross mismanagement. The direction, marketing, and oversight of upper management has been an utter failure. You have let your employees and customers down. You have stained your brand. It's time for damage control. Fix your internal issues and stop passing that cost to your customers. They have spoken, they aren't willing to take it anymore.

I know, opinions are like @$$hole$, everyone has one. This is just mine.

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[kvasiir]

Corporate America is really great at failing hard on things like this. I can't agree more with most of your points.

 

[metroshot]

My Lightning dealer has been excellent and transparent.

I'd go back to them.

Oh wait, my incoming MME has taken over a year to deliver - waiting patiently and it's not my dealer's fault.

Guess it's a matter of luck ??

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

My Lightning dealer has been excellent and transparent.

I'd go back to them.

Oh wait, my incoming MME has taken over a year to deliver - waiting patiently and it's not my dealer's fault.

Guess it's a matter of luck ??

Part of the issue is the lack of communication between your dealer and Ford.

If given the option of buying your truck through your dealer, instead of direct from Ford (as it should be at this point), would you really still want to play with the uninformed middle man?

Not to mention, the unnecessary middle man also needs to make money, that dealer profit is something you are actually paying for. Was your dealer experience worth $4k-$10k? That's how much they end up getting...

 

[COrocket]

Dealers are definitly hit or miss. Some are downright slimy and others actually care about selling vehicles for a fair price and provide good service without ridiculous markups. Some don’t seem to realize that their success goes hand in hand with FoMoCo and taking advantage of people with five figure markups during production constraints is the #1 way to scare people from the brand

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

Dealers are definitly hit or miss. Some are downright slimy and others actually care about selling vehicles for a fair price and provide good service without ridiculous markups. Some don’t seem to realize that their success goes hand in hand with FoMoCo and taking advantage of people with five figure markups during production constraints is the #1 way to scare people from the brand

Ford is paying these dealers 10% to place an order on behalf of the customer (who already chose and placed the same order online), recieve the order at their dealership, plug the truck in, do an inspection, and handle paperwork (which most dealer's charge for).

My dealer's idea of inspection (@Ford Motor Company): my truck was covered in dust in the interior, the exterior was dirty, I found chipped paint between a front fender and the bumper (my awful excuse of an dealer told me it's not their fault, it came from Ford like that, and then tried to offer me a free touch up paint pen). They also didn't install my license plate bracket and when I asked them to they told me to just tell the service department to do it when I pick up my plates or get service.

Yes, my experience may have been bad, but is what services the dealer is expected to do worth 10% of the purchase price of our truck? Or would you rather have your truck delivered to you by Ford at 8% less than your purchase price?

I'm not even including the blatant lies with my trade-in that my crooked dealer peddled.

For those wondering, Skyline Ford in Salem, OR was my dealer. My business transaction with them is completely done, and I no longer have fear of publicly announcing their name and their garbage sales department. Avoid them like the plague. Their service department is fine, never buying a vehicle there again though.

 

[Silenze]

This isn't just a problem with the lightning. Same thing is happening with the bronco. Maverick. Huge dealer markups on everything. Dealers are only in it to make as much money as possible.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

This isn't just a problem with the lightning. Same thing is happening with the bronco. Maverick. Huge dealer markups on everything. Dealers are only in it to make as much money as possible.

Completely agree, my Mother in Law wanted a Maverick. The games, markups, lack of transparency has forced her to move on and look at different options she can make work.

Part of me thinks that dealers are seeing the writing on the wall and are trying to gobble up as much $$$ as they can before their current business model no longer exists.

 

[BedFullOfElectronZ]

I concur with @BennyTheBeaver that my F-150 Lightning is the best, most capable, and most technologically advanced vehicle I have ever owned. And much like other vehicles I have loved in my life, it has a distinctive personality. But, unlike Benny, I was lucky: my dealer (Lynch Ford, Mt. Vernon, IA) was a dream to work with, didn't play games, was curious to learn about the truck, and treated me with respect as a customer. I would recommend them to anyone.

OTOH, my post-reservation communication with Ford was poor, and I don't think my dealer received much information either. With a revolutionary product like this, and with the inevitable long wait times until delivery, Ford should have spent the time and money to effectively market to its reservation holders, making us feel like part of the exciting journey of bringing the Lightning to market. Instead, many months went by without any information at all from Ford, and when I did receive an email, it was either content-free, or confusing. And my continuing relationship with Ford, namely OTA and App updates, has likewise been spotty and confusing.

So, to summarize: Truck: Wonderful. Ford Engineering: Stellar. Build Quality: Very Good. Dealer: Great. Ford Customer Relations: Poor. Support your breakthrough products, Ford!!!

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I concur with @BennyTheBeaver that my F-150 Lightning is the best, most capable, and most technologically advanced vehicle I have ever owned. And much like other vehicles I have loved in my life, it has a distinctive personality. But, unlike Benny, I was lucky: my dealer (Lynch Ford, Mt. Vernon, IA) was a dream to work with, didn't play games, was curious to learn about the truck, and treated me with respect as a customer. I would recommend them to anyone.

OTOH, my post-reservation communication with Ford was poor, and I don't think my dealer received much information either. With a revolutionary product like this, and with the inevitable long wait times until delivery, Ford should have spent the time and money to effectively market to its reservation holders, making us feel like part of the exciting journey of bringing the Lightning to market. Instead, many months went by without any information at all from Ford, and when I did receive an email, it was either content-free, or confusing. And my continuing relationship with Ford, namely OTA and App updates, has likewise been spotty and confusing.

So, to summarize: Truck: Wonderful. Ford Engineering: Stellar. Build Quality: Very Good. Dealer: Great. Ford Customer Relations: Poor. Support your breakthrough products, Ford!!!

I'm glad you had a positive experience with your dealer. I absolutely understand that every dealer is different. With the current model that is in place you got a great experience!

I'm curious though, is the experience you had with your dealer worth 10% of what you paid for your truck?

If you were given the option of not dealing with your dealer at all, and saving 8% off your purchase price by having your built vehicle delivered directly to you...would you have preferred that? Even if my dealer experience was pleasant, I would've taken the latter every time.

 

[BedFullOfElectronZ]

If you were given the option of not dealing with your dealer at all, and saving 8% off your purchase price by having your built vehicle delivered directly to you...would you have preferred that? Even if my dealer experience was pleasant, I would've taken the latter every time.

With a new product like the Lightning, I appreciate having a local dealer I can have a relationship with, and that I can turn to if I have problems. I've read some of the horror stories of Iowa-based Tesla owners who have waited weeks or even months to get their cars serviced after an incident. Their vehicles have to be towed for hundreds of miles to the closest service center, where they wait on parts procurement and servicing, before eventual return to the customer, with no real loaner program or ability to visit the service center to inquire after their vehicle's progress. Is a local dealer worth the 8% you cite? In my view, yes, if you can find a decent dealer with a good service department. Should Lightning customers be offered a direct delivery option, with no dealer interaction? Sure, except given my earlier comments about Ford customer service, I don't think that those customers would be very happy with the result. :-/

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

With a new product like the Lightning, I appreciate having a local dealer I can have a relationship with, and that I can turn to if I have problems. I've read some of the horror stories of Iowa-based Tesla owners who have waited weeks or even months to get their cars serviced after an incident. Their vehicles have to be towed for hundreds of miles to the closest service center, where they wait on parts procurement and servicing, before eventual return to the customer, with no real loaner program or ability to visit the service center to inquire after their vehicle's progress. Is a local dealer worth the 8% you cite? In my view, yes, if you can find a decent dealer with a good service department. Should Lightning customers be offered a direct delivery option, with no dealer interaction? Sure, except given my earlier comments about Ford customer service, I don't think that those customers would be very happy with the result. :-/

Ah, now we're getting to the root of the issue.

Your dealer was paid the 10% (sales department), the relationship you are referencing is with the service department. The sales department, and the ordering process, has no involvement with the service department. The service department did not get any real cut of that 10% "Ordering and Delivery fee".

To use Ford's service department, you dont have to buy a vehicle from that dealer. I have no issue with my dealer's service department. I enjoy having a service department (multiple in fact) so close to my house. It's one of the reasons I went with Ford over Rivian/Tesla. My issue was with the sales department, that I'm forced to use, that recieved a ridiculous amount of money for not having to do much (which my particular dealer failed at).

Again, knowing that you'd still be able to have service and help from your local and remote service departments (irrelevant of where you bought your Ford), is that 10% that the sales department recieved still worth it?

(Also, the sales department I dealt with knew very little about the Lightning, when I test drove one I was teaching the sales rep about the features and capabilities)

 

[ChrisCon]

Part of the issue is the lack of communication between your dealer and Ford.

If given the option of buying your truck through your dealer, instead of direct from Ford (as it should be at this point), would you really still want to play with the uninformed middle man?

Not to mention, the unnecessary middle man also needs to make money, that dealer profit is something you are actually paying for. Was your dealer experience worth $4k-$10k? That's how much they end up getting...

I’m EXTREMELY happy with my dealer and the process and I greatly prefer having a dealer that I can go to for service, accessories , questions or concerns . My dealer donates to many of the same local charities I do , employs people locally and has been a family owned generational Ford dealer. I’m absolutely happy to pay for that experience but understand lots of dealers are terrible .

Regarding price and the pro . I think everyone here who is sensible knows the loss leaders exist to garner headlines . Ford makes all of its money with well equipped pick ups trucks .

 

[TaxmanHog]

Positive dealer experiences and level expectations of what FoMoCO can and will do in the future is what keeps me coming back.

Certainly there are those like Benny with a soured experience, but I hope Ford Model-E future is brighter, as they evolve out of the consolidated model, maybe they will grow positively plus or minus a few knee scrapes along the way.

 

[BennyTheBeaver]

I greatly prefer having a dealer that I can go to for service, accessories , questions or concerns .

I think it's fantastic you had a great experience. I sincerely do. I didn't, I'm unlucky in that sense, I get that.

I have 3 dealers within 50 miles of me. I didn't have to purchase a truck from any of them to be able to use their service center, accessories/parts department, ask questions, and field concerns.

Everyone is so used to lumping all these departments together as the "dealer". Each department has its own bottom line, and each department has its own profitability.

The sales department (in my opinion) doesn't deserve what they get from Ford to place the order (we've already placed), field a couple questions while we wait (alot of us reached out to Ford's CS directly as opposed to our dealers as Ford's CS could answer questions the dealer couldn't), recieve the vehicle from the transport, and spend a few hours going through a checklist (which some good sales departments do, mine didn't). Those steps are costing us $4k-$10k depending on the truck's we bought.

I'd argue that the sales department (not the other parts of the "dealer"), shouldn't get 10% of the vehicle price for simply being a delivery center. Good experience or bad experience, the sales department didn't really sell this truck to the majority of us. We placed a reservation online and we placed an order online.

I understand that it's not that simple, and businesses hide profits and losses across departments and that's just the price of being a business. However, the car purchasing model has changed. Sales departments have much less responsibility, yet still get a larger portion of the purchase price than I think they deserve.

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